Rik I didn't bring your drives up others did, and then I was asked if I had thought about your product on my BT and I answered. I for one think you have a great product as I stated, I'm not BAGGING as you call it your stuff is just not right for my application. Why can't these threads stick to the facts, why does everyone try and start something to make their stuff sound better than the next?
Rik if you remember I spoke to you about your drives and you are the one who gave me the measurements, 52" if that is wrong then please post the correct distance so we all now what it is.

He is running 15/19 and our hardened prop shaft.

I am looking for a new prop shaft and vert shaft (std length) for spares as I have used up all my parts, can you pm me a price, thanks, Smitty

I completely agree with you and already stated that and thats why I sold my imco SC drives. BUT the owner of this very light and effeciant fountain is factoring cost in also so he might as well use the lowers that he has and if they break later he can upgrade to the scx lowers. I just see no reason in buying the b max lower when they are very close to the sc lower. Neither one is going to make a huge difference either way.

With monopoly money in hand he should buy the X power drive and be done with it! Bill the owner claims he just sold 10 of them and has orders for 6 more. I finally saw this drive in person on a sweet skater at boyne thunder poker run. BUT for 37,000 EACH we are still playing with monopoly money.

Untill we see a black thunder with arneson drives we do not know if your statement is true or not. Your personal application they might not be your favorite but no one knows if a arneson drive works good, great, or awesome on a black thunder.

Offshore I which you could seat here and answer my phone and hear what I hear about some of the drives you speak of by folks that have them and had them. It would make you scratch your head and your ass at the same time.

I missed where you brought up the fact he has a light, efficient hull. I have yet to see or hear results on the x-power, sure looked cool when it came out!!!!

That 52" is correct but it is only 4" longer than Bravo on a box, which would be a similar setup not the 12" misleading statement. Also, you are the one bagging on the price while not bringing into light the benefits it brings nor the fact that it is less than a complete new Bravo or BMAX assembly on the boat. Not to mention the SPEED increase that the Arneson will have over the current setup!

Also, this thread was started by someone with a FOUNTAIN not a BT so I don't see how you can bring that into this discussion. I agree stick to the topic but as you pointed out and any proof or lack there of on a BT has no relevance on a Fountain.

Hey guys is a bmax drive lots stronger than a Teague platinum XR drive?

Thank u

Yes it is.

Rik I don't have boxes so it is 16" more sticking out than what I have. And if you go back and read this thread I didn't bring up your stuff or any thing about a BT with your stuff. No one is taking anything away from your drive.

The teague platinum XR drive still uses Merc xr gears in both the upper and lower, lately I have heard of guys time and time again blowing one tooth off the xr gears set which in turn can completely destroy your upper. So when that happens you can kiss 5000+ dollars good bye. The B-max on the other hand has pretty much a BULLET PROOF upper that has been refined to the point where you don't here of anyone really breaking them. So if your at the point of buying a drive for your boat you might want to consider B-max as a option over the Teague . You will spend 30% more to get a complete B-max vs the Teague BUT pay for one blown Teague upper and you will spend more than the difference to get back on the water and from there you will just be pouring money in it, Smitty

As far as the lower ratio goes, I'm not sure but I think it's the 15/19 set. I think the final ratio is set in the upper on the bmax, but you'd have to check with John to be sure. I do run the neo oil, I just check it more often than johns recommendation. As far as the shafts go, I see a lot of slip down low with my setup- my slip doesn't get any better until I get past 100... I think that might be why I'm not twisting everything all to hell. My combo also doesn't make a ton of low end torque, just tons of power on the big end. I do think that rigidity in the lower gear case is paramount to the life of these drives. I've had this lower off and apart (nothing important, just a cav plate prop stretch mishap), and I've had several of the competitors lowers in my hands. Johns lower physically weighs more while maintaining similar dimensions to the competition. All that tells me is that it's a more dense casting that has to be stronger. Case in point, I have 2 shorty lowers in my garage that have 6-7" vertical cracks that run parallel to the vertical shaft. Both cases are damaged in the bearing area, and neither are reparable. Did the gear fail and wipe out the case, or did e case fail and let the gear walk causing the gear to bind and fail? You be the judge on that one. All I know for sure, is that almost every aftermarket upgrade drive out there uses the same xr lower set. All of the others I've tried have failed, and generally I'm under 2 hours despite my driving style. This one has not in over 40 hours of abuse. I know John has certain processes he uses on the lower gears, I can't say if it helps or not. I also know he uses the neo oil exclusively, and I sampled several brands under a scope before and after running it. The neo is very resilient to abuse. Only more time will tell how it will hold up. With all that said, his drive is alive where others would have been dead already. Before I got ahold of John, I was searching for everything I was going to need to swap to a #6 drive. The first conversation I had with John basically described my desire to not have to throw everything in the trash when something broke. His answer was this, you will break my drive- I can't say when or what for sure, my guess is the lower gears... But I do think it will live longer than what you've been running. Everyone else I spoke with said no problem- you won't break my drive. I appreciate honesty, it goes a long way with me.

[QUOTE=lvrepoman;3512634]28' scarab excel-

Datalogger shows 46 to 133.8 in 14.4 seconds, within 2280', with the throttle never exceeding 77%. /QUOTE]

That is just retarded! :drink::drink:

[QUOTE=JasonSmith;3514226]I second that, I would NOT want to ride in it but it would sure be fun to watch!!!!

Very interesting, I just sheared a vert shaft and took out the lower hsg on my boat last month, luckily this only happens once every year or two in my case. Be safe, I hope you use a lifeline and a helmet, Smitty

Just a note,
The SCX uses their own lower gear set, not the XR's gears.

Thats why I say if you have 800+ hp and buy a scx upper spend the money buy the scx lower and have wcm profile the case to make up for the extra drag or turn up your boost. Even under the best conditions xr lower gears are still a weak point on everything else when tortured by big power, heavy boats or tall 5 blades. I'm VERY eager to hear how long the lower gears end up lasting for lvrepoman though, if he gets lower gears to last long running the B-max lower case behind 1700 hp there might be some serious merit to buying one, Smitty

been reading this thread,and one question comes to mind=is the xr outdrive too cheaply built,or are we just asking too much of it?...merc does say 600hp....im curious to hear opinions,as i'll be facing similar problems,with 640hp spinning a standard b1...i was looking for an xr or xz....

Well for what it is worth I have a XR drive Teague Platinum in a 27' Daytona the first power was right at 1000hp and now I am at 1100hp knock on wood zero problems yet......I feel my drive is just setup right on the money it never gets hot or turns white.....but I am very easy on it and my boat does not leave the water.

Smitty.

Just a thought. If you turn up your power to gain what you've lost in speed. What will that do to the scx? Where is the limit? You will also put more strain on the motors. How will an scx with the mods you mentioned stack up to the ASD7, including the increase in hp, price wise? What I'm shooting at is. Wouldn't it be better to run the ASD7 with no increased power, have superb reliabillity, and maybe even have the fastest setup of them all to boot?
What's your thoughts on this angle?

"been reading this thread,and one question comes to mind=is the xr outdrive too cheaply built,or are we just asking too much of it?...merc does say 600hp....im curious to hear opinions,as i'll be facing similar problems,with 640hp spinning a standard b1...i was looking for an xr or xz.... "

It's not that the XR is built cheap. It is what it is, but the gears from the early XR's held up better and snapping teeth off at the root, was not an issue. The lower gears would go 250hrs or so with 700hp.. These days, you dont know if you will get a good set or not. Very frustating to build a drive and then have a tooth break off and destory it. No good way to warranty the gears. Merc wont stand behind them unless you have stock Merc power. Only way to warranty is to charge double the price and hope it doesnt take out the upper case.
Dick

I can't help but wondering, when I read something like this. Isn't there anyone from Merc lurking here on oso, and thinking "Hm, maybe we are doing something wrong", or are they just thinking "Ha, we sell alot of crappy expensive gears these days, and that's great for us, as we don't give a chit".

SERIOUSLY!?? The xr drive is not junk if you use it behind a stock merc engine like it was designed for.

I never hear people say " this 496 is junk cause it wont push 1300 hp on stock internals" merc makes a 1300 turbo for a reason! Just like they make a #6 and a m8 drive.

People on this very website don't expect a half ton truck to tow a 51 outerlimts so why do we expect a stock outdrive to handle the world.

+1. I think people want a drive that will handle 1000hp at a price of an XR. It just does not happen. If you want to play like the big dogs, you have to pay. If you can't pay, you are out of luck. I'm sort of stuck in the middle. :lolhit:

Sorry if it sounded like I was attacking the fact that the XR won't stand up to overrated power. That was not the intention.

What I'm refering to, is not the fact that they only rate them for 600 hp. I'm with you there, it is what it is.
What I am trying to say I guess is, that people are having XR problems wether they run 525 or 800 hp thru their drives. Of course more have problems with 800 hp, that goes without saying. But the quality of the gears has gone down over the last 10 years or so.
So when Mr. Gadgets write as he does, and what he and others have written before, I'm thinking "Does anyone from merc see this, and give it some thought, or is it just about the money and don't they care?" They still produce lower quality gears than they used to, so it honestly looks like the latter to me. This is also why I like the Arneson's better than the stock Bravo XR and the upgraded drives, no matter the brand really. Merc needs competition in the drive market.

i think merc could play the game too,if they wanted;like selling a better xr,one that could stand 700hp,as a b1 upgrade...they could call it xxr...they probly would sell it the price of 2 arnesons:daz:

Sorry if it seemed like my comment was directed towards you but it wasn't. It was for everyone. You have hit the nail on the head and I have always beleived mr gadgets about the old gears being better. I just get fusterated when everyone thinks some special xr will last. The fact is the gears are just to small. There is a reason bigger drives have larger gears. Semis and race cars all have bigger rear axles with larger gears for a reason. Off road jeeps and trucks swap out larger axles all the time to get bigger gears!

which years were the ''good'' ones?

How much bigger is a #6 lower gear set than a XR set?

Thank you all for the information. I currently am in talks to purchase a 42 Lightning with staggered 900s and #6's.

If it doesnt go through, I will be looking to have the ASD put on the back of the boat. I absolutely love the boat, it has fresh 850's that I will de-tune to 700 hp. Then I will sell my current brand new Bravo XR's that I have on the boat.

I saw the first teeth snap off in early 2008. Prior to that, I was confident they could hold some serious power. A light boat (Baja H2X) and 1170hp, driven with no respect, upper and lower gears would start to go away in 60-70hrs, but they never broke off a tooth. Every weekend he would make 100mph passes all day long.. The gears would pit, but not break.
After that summer all bets were off with XR upper gears. I dont believe anything has changed since then. That has been my experience. I dont think Merc can get back the guys that made the gears back in the day.
So larger gears are better at handling power. I believe the #6 has two lower shafts that share the power. But I have not been in one.

Dick

Thanks for the update, especially because this thread is really about you and your boat!

The 42 is well known as the best hull fountain makes. Sporty, and fast. Even though I am not a fan I have respect for it. You will eventually want a larger boat anyways so I agree that upgrading boats instead of wasting money on your current boat is the best decision. Also love the Arneson upgrade, best bang for the buck hand down.

Good luck with the purchase!

#6 gear set is much smaller then the all mighty B MAX gear and weaker because it is not dipped in Icy Hot vanishing gel! LOL! Plus that Torco crap is no match for the magic man, NEO oil which sooths and protects those properly shimmed gears by one and only JOHN P, AKA waconda AKA "the master of disaster"!

:food-smiley-007:.:food-smiley-007:

With my own personal boat, a over-powered 2000 Baja 272, I tried a Imco shorty and a Stellings box, they both screwed the boat up so bad it went slower and LOST handling so to change to a Arneson asd-7 for me personally would be like re-inventing the wheel. As far as for twin engine boats and singles that it has been proven on, I think it would be a GREAT upgrade, Smitty

Some bad blood there???:eek:

There has got to be some truth to the early upper XR gears being better, I have had the same gears in my upper for 300 plus hours and 7+ years. I have had a 700 hp blown 502, 750 hp blown 540, 950 hp blown 540 and currently 1050-1100 hp blown 540 in my boat and I am STILL using the original upper case that came new on my boat in 2000 that Max worx put a full length tower in and the same xr gears for 7 years. Back when I first upgraded my drive in 02 or 03 I had a xr pinion gear that started to scallop by 50 hours and I broke the floor out of a xr gear that Max worx had bored out for a different bearing. Now as far as lowers, that is a different story, I have sheared off vert and prop shafts and ate up countless lower gears

Here I thought you knew what you were talking about with the larger #6 gears and I wanted to know how much bigger they were over the XR set. Has nothing to do with Bmax uppers or Neo oil. As you just pointed out you are just a keyboard boater with no clue what you are talking about, so keep posting away cause you do make all of us laugh with every post.

Indeed it has. Here ya go. No wonder it's so heavy!

Rik. Do you have any cutaways like this of the ASD#7M, #8 or #10?