Drive discussion: trs. 3's. And 5's
#41
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#42
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I'm in the same situation as you, Dave. I'm boring out my 33 Scarab's HP500s to 540s, shooting for around 600hp. A little worried about my standard bravos, but tentatively planning on just buying a spare one and sticking it in the garage in case something happens. Some guys are saying the bravos will be fine, others are saying it's going to be a mess....not sure what to do.
#46
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Good thread, gonna have to keep an eye on this. My 38 Scarab is getting fresh "drive killer" power that will most likely make small parts out of my standard HP Bravos so i need to start looking at real world options.
Stronger x? Bravo - yeah . . . right
SSM #3 - dont know much about them
SSM #5 - kinda high on my list
Konrads - Very high on my list, would be great for my needs.
What is the diff between 3's and 5's? just length?
Stronger x? Bravo - yeah . . . right
SSM #3 - dont know much about them
SSM #5 - kinda high on my list
Konrads - Very high on my list, would be great for my needs.
What is the diff between 3's and 5's? just length?
With your skill you could easily rig the boat economically
Arneson
5's
4's
or even wet sump 6s
I would steer clear of the Konrad's, not really that strong, efficient or fast. Not a horrible drive i just have a feeling you could find something stronger, faster, and more badazz for the money!
#47
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Most of the parts for trs drives are still readily available from mercury. The only parts that I have not been able to purchase from mercury are a couple of the orings. The weak link on a trs is in the right hand lower. The driven gear is supported by the bearing carrier. Under big power the carrier flexes and causes misalignment of the gears which eventually fail. If someone were to design a heavy duty bearing carrier the trs would be much more reliable. The Trans is just a borg warner 7th unless you have the merc Trans. Plenty of reputable companies to be a up the 7th. If you have the merc Trans then I would replace it when upgrading your engines. The 3 is good for about 750hp reliably. The 3a is a heavier duty version of the 3. The 4 is similar to the 3a except that it is shorter. The 5 is much stronger than either the 3a or the 4. Mercury racing brought it to market to compete against the keikhafer #6 drive. They quickly realized that the #6 was far superior and soon purchased keikhafer aeromarine in order to aquire the #6 ssm. I personally would have a trs or any ssm over a bravo. If I was to rig a boat from scratch it would have an arne son for sure
#48
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Let me preface this by saying im am no means an expert on any of this and this is just my $.02. Because I have had SSM II's on my boat, I had to do a lot of digging into the history,
strengths and weakness of it, TRS drives, SSM 3s, SSM 3A's, Kamma's and Bravo's and even Alpha's (Alpha's because that is what is on my Formula 242)
1st there are two main categories of drives, Those with transmissions (TRS, SSM's, NXT's Arnesons and Kamma's) and those with out (Bravos and Alpha's). And again I say my
experience is limited to TRS, and Alpha's. The 1st thing I know about TRS drives is the coupler. The TRS drive has a spring dampened coupler similar to a clutch. The Alpha (and Bravo)
both use a rubber coupler. Then there is the transmission. When the trans applies forward gear, it moves the forward piston and applies a series of clutches. This whole action is very soft
in comparison to an Alpha which clunks when the dogs engage and a bravo when the cone clutch friction surfaces engage. I would rather have a transmission with all the surface area of 7
clutch discs than that of a bravo with its cone clutch. This is why people prefer the soft shifting of the transmission to the harshness of the shifted drives. Onto the drives. The TRS and
Bravo both have helical upper gear sets. The SSM 3, 4, 5 and 6 have spur upper gears. All the lower gears are spur gears (except the Alpha which is a spur gear). The advantage over a
bravo is in the transmission. As far as TRS parts being hard to find, maybe if you want to go to your local marina, that may be true, but still finding parts is not impossible. Now as far as
bravo boat being better than a SSM 3 boat, well all I can say to people who believe this is[ATTACH=CONFIG]535153[/ATTACH].
From what I remember a SSM 3 is rated to 750 hp. A Bravo 1 is only 500 hp. A XR sportmaster is good for 600 hp. So anybody who claims that a bravo is better than a SSM 3, 4, 5, 6
must be listening to what their marine mechanic says and the same mechanic believes that those drives must be inferior because they don't make them anymore and he has never seen
one. As far as the rest here is my ranking.
1 M8
2 SSM 6 dry sump
3 SSM 6 wet sump
4 Arneson
5 Kamma
6 SSM 4/5
7 SSM 3A
8 Bravo XR sport master
9 SSM 3
10 TRS/ SSM II
10 Bravo 1
11 Alpha
strengths and weakness of it, TRS drives, SSM 3s, SSM 3A's, Kamma's and Bravo's and even Alpha's (Alpha's because that is what is on my Formula 242)
1st there are two main categories of drives, Those with transmissions (TRS, SSM's, NXT's Arnesons and Kamma's) and those with out (Bravos and Alpha's). And again I say my
experience is limited to TRS, and Alpha's. The 1st thing I know about TRS drives is the coupler. The TRS drive has a spring dampened coupler similar to a clutch. The Alpha (and Bravo)
both use a rubber coupler. Then there is the transmission. When the trans applies forward gear, it moves the forward piston and applies a series of clutches. This whole action is very soft
in comparison to an Alpha which clunks when the dogs engage and a bravo when the cone clutch friction surfaces engage. I would rather have a transmission with all the surface area of 7
clutch discs than that of a bravo with its cone clutch. This is why people prefer the soft shifting of the transmission to the harshness of the shifted drives. Onto the drives. The TRS and
Bravo both have helical upper gear sets. The SSM 3, 4, 5 and 6 have spur upper gears. All the lower gears are spur gears (except the Alpha which is a spur gear). The advantage over a
bravo is in the transmission. As far as TRS parts being hard to find, maybe if you want to go to your local marina, that may be true, but still finding parts is not impossible. Now as far as
bravo boat being better than a SSM 3 boat, well all I can say to people who believe this is[ATTACH=CONFIG]535153[/ATTACH].
From what I remember a SSM 3 is rated to 750 hp. A Bravo 1 is only 500 hp. A XR sportmaster is good for 600 hp. So anybody who claims that a bravo is better than a SSM 3, 4, 5, 6
must be listening to what their marine mechanic says and the same mechanic believes that those drives must be inferior because they don't make them anymore and he has never seen
one. As far as the rest here is my ranking.
1 M8
2 SSM 6 dry sump
3 SSM 6 wet sump
4 Arneson
5 Kamma
6 SSM 4/5
7 SSM 3A
8 Bravo XR sport master
9 SSM 3
10 TRS/ SSM II
10 Bravo 1
11 Alpha
#49
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I don't know much about 3's or 5's but assuming they are beefier versions of bravo xr's (straight cut gears)...then obviously the gear teeth won't snap and break like bravos but what prevents the gear wear? You still have metal on metal contact and as explained to me straight gears wear faster than helical...can someone explain why an SSM would last longer from this perspective.
#50
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And this may be why there are so many misinformed people out there.