Audio Upgrades
 

Hello all. I have a little project I plan on tackling over winter regarding upgrading the stereo system in my 272 Baja. Currently the boat had some non marine speakers and subwoofers/amps which I ripped out. I would like to upgrade to 2 10" JL Audio Subwoofers with 2 6.6" JL Speakers and 2 7.7 JL Speakers.

Its has been a long time since I delt with audio components and was wondering if someone could chime in and recommended the best way to amplify everything? 1 amp? 2 amps?

Thanks!
Nick

Definitely 2 amps..........1 for the subs and a 4 channel for the other 4 cockpit speakers

Yep, 2 amps are better.

Enclosures for the subs usually make best sound compared to infinite baffle (free air)

If you have the room, go 8.8 speakers over the 7.7. MUCH better better speaker. (CAUTION: watch the depth of the speaker too. The 8.8 are deep)

What are you looking for with this set up?

Good clean "musical" sound I'd do JL Audio.

Good and loud sound, consider Wet Sounds.

Budget system I'd look into Rockford Fosgate, Kicker, or Polk .

If you're going to be cranking the tunes while anchored/beached you're going to need batteries to run the stereo. So make preps for adding. You don't want the engine to not start because you ran the tunes for too long, And you don't want to be hanging out behind the boat with it running to charge the batteries.

Quality RCA's, power and speaker wires go a long way with good sound also.

If I were you I would definitely look into the Bluave enclosed subs from Waves and Wheels @ LOTO. I have used them in the last 3 boats and they are way better than anything I've had before, even the Wet Sounds XXX. I had the JL M8 series speakers and JL amps throughout my current AT and changed everything over to Bluave. I've had Fosgate, Kicker, Wet Sounds, JL, etc and the bluave is top of the line right now.

Thanks everyone. 2 amps it is! I would like the cleanest sound possible but doesn’t have to be too terribly loud. 9 times out of 10 we get docked up next a couple of boats down from a wakeboat and you can’t out power those overhead speakers lol.
I already have a dual switched battery setup so should be good on power requirements.

I will definitely give Bluave a look at thanks!

BS on 2 amps......you do need to control the subs separate however the JL 900/5 is made to do EXACTLY what you are trying to do. Several of my buddies and I run a 900/5 and it powers your planned speaker setup perfectly.

I've got three amps on my 252, one for the subs, one for the cockpit speakers, and one for the front bowrider speakers. This is mainly due to space/mounting considerations, but I also find it a little easier to get the 'imaging' I want with multiple amps. Obviously a single amp is easier insofar as running power is concerned. The JL Audio 900/5 or 1000/5 (several versions available) are good amps...I've used Polk Audio in the past and have been very pleased as well. Good points noted in earlier comments about speaker depth/size...definitely something to check out first. I had the M3-770x speakers in another boat and loved them.
Are you putting anything in the cabin?

I don’t really plan to do much with speakers in the cabin as I have two young daughters that will be napping off and on while we are out. It does have the factory Clarion speakers down there still so I may leave them hooked up just to have something.

That's like asking if a boat should have 1 or 2 engines.
first off what was wrong with the old system, what did it do correctly, what do you want the new system to do better, how much physical space are you willing to devote to stereo subs and amps , can we cut the boat up to add speakers and what's your budget. Until you have a clear goal everyone is shooting from the hip.

My budget will be around the $2500 mark....

The old system was garbage. Old automotive speakers and non marine amps. They were corroded and all the fuses blown in them. Stereo was a cheap head unit that doesn't even have enough outputs for what I plan on doing.

The back seat frame already has holes cut for 2 10" subs. The factory cockpit cutouts are only able to hold 2 6.5 speakers so I do plan on cutting 2 additional holes in front of the passenger and driver seats to fit a 7.7 speaker.

With my budget I should be able to buy decent Kenwood head-unit, two JL Subs, 2 JL 6.5's and 2 JL 7.7s. My real question is what amps should I get to power this combo?

In rough estimates the gear is about $1900 with a couple of inexpensive amp kits leaving $600 for power .
if you used a pair of Skar amps for about $350 1 mono marine amp 550w $170. 1 4chl marine amp 150w x 4 $185 plenty of power , marine amp , reasonable price , class d , remote bass knob, ability to fade,. Negatives: take up double the space , enough power to overwhelm speakers , big current draw so playing time at volume will be limited.
There is no right or wrong answer

Or an Alpine PDX-V9
You don't need a "marine" amp. Just install the amp where it won't get wet.

I just did the same thing to my Velocity 280, replaced everything with JL Audio. I had JL Audio car speakers when I bought it. I put 2 10" subs and 2 7.7" in the rear seat to fill 2-6x9" and 2-6.5" holes I had. I added 2-6.5" up front on either side. I had a JLA 500W amp for the subs and a JLA 350/4 amp for the 6.5 and 7.7. My 6.5" cabin speakers run off the pioneer head unit. I can hit 106db in the cockpit so plenty loud and stereo separation is perfect no matter where you stand and volume level is even everywhere. I had to turn the subs down they were overpowering the smaller speakers. It's not very loud at all outside the boat. When I'm anchored at the beach you can barely hear it onshore.

Lets pretend I can get all the speaker and head-unit for around 1500. So I have a $1000 budget for both amps. What two amps would you recommended?

That's the problem with a big open space. When i had my old Scarab the stereo was loud enough that when the bass hit you couldn't see straight.......but step outside the boat (like in the driveway) and it sounded like there was a kid rolling up the street in his low-rider...you know there's something there but cant quite tell where its at :D

Im using this one for the 4 cockpit speakers and a mono 600 for the sub

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18465460315...Condition=1000

High frequencies are directional, the higher the more directional, that's why you don't hear much outside of the boat unless the speakers are pointed outside or mounted high like on a wakeboard tower . Bass is much less directional and has the energy to reflect off of hard surfaces.

If I had $1000 to spend on amps i would buy $250 in fuel and look at the Rockford pm1000x5
if space wasn't an issue I would buy $500 in fuel and the 2 skar amps
or buy $750 worth of fuel and a 4 chl amp wire the 6 and 7" speakers to 2 channels and the subs to 1 bridged chl.
marine amps are usually marine because they are white,, have coated boards and expensive. But for less money buy the car version for less money, keep it dry and throw it away in 5 or 6 years . Years ago when my tournament boat sat outside all winter I would just pull the electronics.

Back in the day if a customer came in and was an azz I would spend every last dime they had, could borrow or steal. If you were cool I would make some real world suggestions that maybe weren't as flashy or played your music so loud that everyone on the sand bar hated you but 95% of the time the volume was low enough so you could hear and enjoy the people you went boating with.

Looks like you're looking at the budget end of the spectrum. (nothing wrong with that at all)

JL M3 6.5 speakers RMS at 60W

JL M3 7.7 speakers RMS at 75W

JL M3 10IB 10" subs RMS at 175W

My recommendation would be the JL M 800/8 amplifier then

It will supply 75W RMS to both the 6.5 and the 7.7 speakers.

You then bridge the other 4 channels into 2 that RMS at 180W. So that's 180W to each of the 2 subs

Be sure to adjust the gain on the amplifier properly, and you will have sufficient, clean power for all 6 speakers in that system.

If you were to go to a pair of subs that require more power than 175W, I would have recommended 2 amps, but in this scenario it works out perfect for what you have laid out and should come in your amp price range..

Find someone with a West Marine port account, the discount they get is insane. You will be able to afford what you want. I paid less than $1000 for all my speakers. I had the amps and good head unit so I got away cheap.

I like your take on this. Well the amps I plan to go in the cabin of the boat so I would hope they see very little moisture. So maybe a non marine amp might make sense for me? Boat is also stored high and dry in the winter.



Thanks for your feedback, I just realized that JL has an M3 series and M6 which has a definite price hike!

Thanks again for the help!

In my humble opinion
If you have only a few hundred dollars wrapped up in amps your expectations are reasonable, if they last 4 or 5 years and they take a dump it was time for a refresh anyways. A boat in a wet climate wrapped up tight may have moisture issues and thats tough on any electronics. My suggestion is to mount them in such a manner it's possible to remove them and the deck to protect them from moisture and theft.
it makes me smile when people talk about "clean clear sound" when they are talking about sound reproduction in open air, with high ambient background noise and poor speaker location. To me it's just background noise that ill crank it up every once and a while and then I'm not expecting it to sound like my home hi-fi system. By the time its all in your boat you have nothing to compare it to and as long as it relatively meets your reasonable requirements it's a win. I remember standing at the display board with a customer and switching between speakers and saying "can you hear the difference " and then having to coach the person on the finest of nuisances. Even if the person was deaf as a post they would nodd in agreement not wanting to appear uninformed or incapable of noticing such slight details and heaven forbid you had a nice car or boat with "inferior " components even if you were so deaf you can shoot a .50 cal and it sounds like a baby whisper. I'm not trying to shame anyone but in my humble opinion I've always suggested being honest with your true needs. I ain't putting on a fashion show for my friends and certainly not for some strangers. I see no need to have hundreds or thousands of extra dollars sitting in my boat not getting used. If I used my boat every weekend between mid May to mid September its only 16 times and I would rather have an extra $1000 in my savings account than strut around showing everyone some speakers I really don't care about. But thats me

I have the M3's and with the right amps, tuning and placement they sound almost as good as my high end home theater system. I think I actually listen to it more in the winter while I'm working on the boat than I do in the summer driving the boat. I highly recommend getting a good sound meter and set the amps according to JL's instructions. Optimizing your crossover frequencies helps as well. I spent hours tuning the system after I installed it, huge difference.

SnakeHorse,

I have a brand new Sony head unit I could be talked out of for about $100 shipped ConUS. I bought it because the Sony head unit that was in our PQ when we bought it had apparently given up, and we had two already installed "Sony" remote commanders. Turns out, they weren't Sony, and wouldn't work with the new Sony head unit. I ended up with Kenwood head unit and proprietary commanders, but I couldn't return the Sony head unit because it had already "been installed". It was installed for about a week, and sounded great, but never left my shop where I store the boat. It is still in the box, with all documentation and install parts. I originally paid about $180 for it, and I'd just like to recoup SOME of my losses.

Sony Head Unit

LMK.

Thanks. Brad.
Model Machine and Precision LLC
(937)545-8991

That sounds like a good deal to me. Looks to have front & rear outputs along with sub out. Also has bluetooth. Can you send me a PM? Its not letting me send you one because I dont quite have 10 posts on this site yet lol.

Wow it doesnt even let me view PM's until I have the 10 posts

Post number 9

Snake,

Just call me.

Thanks. Brad.
Model Machine and Precision LLC
(937)545-8991

And post number 10

I have a 272. I got 4 12" Kicker marine free air subs powered by a 900watt kicker sub amp. 8 JL 6.5" powered by a 550watt Kicker amp. It is loud and sounds very good in the cock pit, not as good when your out of the boat in the water. Holes were cut(under the bench seat) when I got the boat. I wish I had gone with enclosed subs, My friends with the enclosed set up sound WAY better especially out side the boat. a Kenwood marine head unit tops my system with top quality fuses, blocks, cables and wires. bout 3g into the system(I had a pretty good hook up on last years models). I am not disappointed, but if all the speaker holes were not cut I would have done it differently.

Snakehorse,

You still interested n the Sony head unit?

Thanks. Brad.
Model Machine and Precision LLC
(937)545-8991

Good to know that this has taken effect. I had asked IB tech to initiate this a few weeks ago.
it is to prevent scammers from joining and immediately sending PM's to member's wanted ads. It has been an increasing problem.

I'm going also agree with others that you don't need 2 amps.

In the past I've run up to 4 class A/B amps. They generate a lot of heat, and suck a lot of current , and there are a lot of extra wiring and distribution blocks, fuse blocks needed to use this type of set up. When I bought my Cigarette 39 it had two random junk amps and I replaced them with a single Focal class D amp. It powers 6 JL Audio Mid-range speakers, 6 tweeters, and 2 subs. Sound is every bit as good as when I was using very large and expensive JL Audio slash amps. PLUS my batteries last a lot longer. Find a nice quality 5/6 channel amp with the power you need and you will be happy. I'm using the Focal FDP 6.900 and am very happy with it.

I know this is a little late, but I'm a "yes" for the single amp suggestions. I went a little smaller with a PDX-5M, though it's birth sheet comes close to the PDX-V9. Speakers are Polk DB-series with four 6.5s and two 6x9s (and a pair of 6.5's to add). There is also a sealed 10-inch DB-series sub. These are in the cockpit of my 311. The Kenwood headunit runs the cabin speakers (also DB-series 6.5s). I bought the amp used off Craigslist back when I still had my 242. Seven years later it's still putting in work. It sounds clean and is loud for what it is. I've thought about moving up to the V9, but so long as this one is working, I do not see the need. The single amp made for an easy wiring scheme too. I definitely recommend the single 5-channel route.

Hi Brad, Sorry about this I was going to reach out and life got sidetracked and I completely forgot about this thread. When tearing out the old audio I found that the head-unit was actually a pretty new model Kenwood that had all the needed outputs so I just decided to stay with it. I definitely went on somewhat of a budget with audio but I am seriously impressed with the quality of sound my setup produces. Below is a breakdown of what I went with....

Kenwood Headunit
(2) 10" M3 JL Audio Subwoofers
(2) 8" DS18 Hydro Speakers
(2) 6.5" DS18 Hydro Speakers
(1) 800watt RMS Monoblock Amp (Skar Audio)
(1) 500watt RMS 4 Channel Amp (Skar Audio)

I have roughly $1400 in the setup give or take including all of the wiring and fuses. I do plan on adding in another pair of 6.5 to the side of my seat bolsters and either two more subs in the back seat or a pair of 10" Speakers. So a bigger channel amp will be in my future for sure.

Hope you like some photos

https://i.imgur.com/gHXwzdL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NLahAWB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rToXdDk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GFcB5Rc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7N6jSXL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/S84kIjh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JDCJyxn.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/UGUukLr.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/LU7zLNb.jpg

And finally with all the interior back in

https://i.imgur.com/iXgERb7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tolaVjR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XD6M5dV.jpg

I have a 272 , 2 JLw6 in fiberglass rear bench lower storage tub ,2 jl 6.5 mounted into the fiberglass forward lower of the 2 booster seats, and the 2 main players ,are the 2 7.7 CDT audio pro drivers mounted in pods down in the storage area below the cupholders.
I have found the factory speaker openings behind the rear cupholders terrible. Locating speakers forward of the bolsters is much better but will require some custom mods to clear shifter on right side.
Running the wires to a distribution block up in front cabin and locating amps there is much better for longevity than anywhere else on this boat.
the rear bench seat bottom structure ,only after it has been sealed air tight on top sides and bottom becomes a very good , by boat standards , sub enclosure. You will lose the under seat storage. Will also lose some engine noise transmitted to cabin . And you will lose the natural water drainage to the bildge from the center floor.bring extra towels or add a drain. If you put baffles behind the cabin speakers it will improve sound dramatically, aluminum can light pods will fit behind the 272 side panels.
if you have the v belt alternator like I do you will probably be happier with class d amps if you seal up the sub enclosure and install cast basket subs get a separate sub amp that will do them justice.

Snakehorse,

All good. It was an offer, not a request.

Nice install, BTW. I managed to tuck an 8” Bazooka tube up under the gunwale in my left side pocket. I originally had it strapped to the floor on the left side of the engine well, but it made the swim deck rattle too much and sounded like crap. After relocating the Bazooka tube, the overall sound is awesome.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...a1f2715c4.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...856b1c1bf.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...ff0eb1515.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...9b7c29784.jpeg

The installed pics are actually from before I built the support cradle, and was just trying to hang it from straps. This didn’t work out well, as the Bazooka would jostle loose too easily. After building the cradle, and the PITA installation, the Bazooka is actually much less visible, but in the same location. I also painted the cradle with white FlexSeal.

I would recommend Bazooka tubes to anyone without an obvious location for a sub. Just don’t contain them.

Thanks. Brad.
(937)545-8991

That looks great Brad, I agree even with the JL's being an infinite baffle subwoofer you cannot beat the performance of a sub with a full enclosure. I do like the idea of using the bazooka tube setup and i'm thinking I would have enough room to get away with that in my side pockets aswell.

I have killed some old school Phoenix zx600 titanium fosgate 800.2 couple of fosgate dsm Amps (lots of power in small footprint) and a clarion pro audio back up amp mounted there , couldn't keep em from getting wet ,wet people in seat water from people getting on off platform ect ,put new amps on a rack up in cabin pulled the heavy azz ported 12 out of the bildge storage and added a mid floor drain in the center floor panel .2 jl 10w6 in the bench base with steel mesh grills ,duct tape a plastic cover over the access holes under seat bottom ,siliconed every gap on the base to make enclosure air tight .night and day difference . BTW from what I have seen those skar amps deliver good bang for the buck and hold up decent on marine builds

And if you can find one , the procharger efi mag throttle bell and remote k and n filter kit makes a unbelievable difference in engine noise underway .its almost like having a electric boat with the diverters turned off .

I'm hoping I can keep it dry back there. I don't let anyone past the sun deck until they drip dry. If it starts to become an issue I have no problem relocating this stuff in the cabin area. I was super impressed with the output and price of these amps. So far my only complaint is I wish they were a little more compact and that they offered something with more than 4 channels.

Yeah I actually just installed this aftermarket adapter and Flame arrestor this winter. The factory plastic one was all cracked and falling to pieces. The Hardin Marine and K&N unit was the cheapest and most accessible one that I could find.