Black weekend ....
 

..Picked up 89 311 thursday in Atlanta and pulled it back to Jax .. Saturday ..was to be first time in the water ...started Motors in Driveway just to make sure things were ok and Sure enough Port Motor got hot .....shut it down and Found the clamps had not been reinstalled on suction side of Sea Pump ..they were just loose .slid back on the hose ..Called Previous owners Mechanic and he seemd to think everything was ok ...So we but boat in water and it ran fine for about 25 mins ....then Port got hot ...limped back to port ...pulled seapump and it was toast.. replaced it ... now port motor runs rough ..wont idle ....I am sick .....

Pulled the plugs today and 4&6 and 5&7 wet ....Sh$%

Call Fel Pro.

Welcome to the wonderful world of "watch your gauges". Hopefully you will get out of this with just a headgasket job.

While the heads are off, though, you might as well redo the valve seats. Even a quickie job with lapping paste and a suction cup on a dowel rod is better than nothing (and in some cases better than a hatchet valve job by a kid in the back of the speed shop).

When you go back together, make sure you have a warning horn and wire it into a 200 degree temp sensor and a 15 psi oil pressure switch.

I was just disscussing that issue with a friend ...no warning horn ? I guess in 89 it didnt exist ?

Man that is a bummer. Check both your water pumps. You did not say but did you start it out of the water with out a hose hooked up? I try and avoid this at all costs. Do a compresion check on the motor just in case you have a bad riser or manifold would be my suggestion. Water could have got in that way...... Hang in there. One you get it up and running you will forget about the bad first couple days....

Jon

Mike, tried to PM you but your mail box is full. My first guess is, like Jon said, a bad riser or manifold. I had the exact same problem on my 242 years ago. If there is rusty water spots running down the side of the risers, bingo, you've found your problem. I've got to change mine pretty quick or I'm gonna have the same problem. I'm trying to figure out what I'm gonna end up doing with my motors before I buy a new exhaust set up. In salt water you gotta figure on changing them out about every three years. It gets expensive, but welcome to boats. What isn't???? Call me at either land line 941-485-2424 or 941-544-1375, 7/7:30 pm is a good time. Russ

All good thoughts above. Definitely pull the exhaust risers and take a look in there. Most common leak spot. Even if you suspect them a bit, replace them with something good - Stainless Marine or something similiar. That is one lesson I have learned - no cheapo exhausts, and if you think it needs replacing, it probably does! Better than blowing a motor...

Unless you find the smoking gun shortly, I'd recommend pulling that motor out. If you haven't done that before, may sound daunting, and it does suck to do that right after buying the boat. However, those motors are in there tight, and it is way easier to work on the heads/ exhaust with the motor out. I have both my 311's engines out currently, and I can tell you that engine room is not fun to work in. I'd suggest pulling it out, pressure test and refresh the heads, and check the exhaust. Check the tin too. My personal favorite (well not my pocket's!) is to go through the ingition too, caps, trigger/rotor, sensors, wires, have been neglected on every boat I bought, so as a rule of thumb I throw them away the 1st week of owning the boat.

If you don't figure out what you are starting with for a baseline - it can be a long season of not boating much.

I would contact the previous owner, and see if they would be willing to help with the costs. Sorry to hear the bad news, but we've all been there for the most part.

Jaybird, isn't that the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

compresion 2-145 4-144 6-163 8-145
1-145 3-155 5-163 7-158

Which to me is all good ...Deff water in Cylinders ..esp #6 ...

It's either manifolds or risers, or both....

gona drain oil for water ...then oil cylinders ...plugs back in or out to lube up cylinders and top end ?

Unless the oil looks real bad, I wouldn't change it until you figure out where the water is coming from because it will just get back in there and ruin the new oil. If you do change it for the moment, just use a lesser expensive oil because you are going to need to change it again shortly.

If it is in the cylinders the possibilities I can think of are:
-Leaky or bad risers / gaskets (very common, and easiest to fix)
-Leaky or bad exhaust manifolds / gaskets
-Leaky or bad intake manifold or gaskets
-Blown head gasket
-Cracked or rotted cylinder head
-Cracked block

I'd suggest to start looking at the items at the top of the list, and work towards the bottom (hopefully you won't have to go too far down, as things get complicated and $$ down there!)

Mike, empty your PM box. I need your phone #, just missed your call and the number listed on my caller ID won't go through. Russ

My email: [email protected]

Offthefront
I have two sets of merc center rise manifolds, spacers and risers from my 311, they are fresh water and in mint condition if you need them email me at [email protected] . I also have heads, intakes and carbs (330 hp) Jeff.

Decent numbers. Strange to see 5 & 6 so high,(still water in them??) but all within 10%, which is good. The 4 center cylinders (4,6--3,5) are the most prone to get ,water with a leaky exhaust riser gasket.

I'd still do a leak down on them just to be sure. I've seen cylinders with 140+ psi that had 50% leakage.

Thaks guys for all the info ...will keep hacking away at it ..after oil change (water) oil filter (water) about 2 oz oil in each cylinder then plugs back in hand tight .....spun pretty good ...will keep post coming ....Russ ....Emptied it twice ..contacting OSO ... Cell is 904 422 4806 ....home 904 278 8056 ..Mike ..

Mike, will call you sometime today or tonight. Russ

I struggled with a small water leak all last season, and as mentioned above I have my motors torn down now. I just found out that one of the heads is cracked. :mad:

Well, looking at the glass half full perspective, at least I found the problem...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Go through everything now! The compression test didn't catch this, and performance-wise this motor ran great last year, just a very small amount of water was leaking in. Maybe a leakdown test would have caught the cracked head?

Oh well, at least I have a line on a set of heads...

B O A T

Bring Over Another Thousand:rolleyes:

Thought it was Break Out Another Thousand:crazy:





AND EMPTY YOUR MAILBOX , OFFTHEFRONT

you guys are cruel ..... Anyway we are pulling the motor ..alot easier to work on and can GET to everything ....... My Merc guy is asking about NO circulators .....sez MERC or Jasper will not warranty without them ....I know why they are not there .....give me some input .....thanks ... less$$ Mike

Are you talking about your cirulator water pumps? If that is the case then I would say that you probably should leave them on. If you take them off a stock motor then you run the likelyhood of increasing your water preasure by to much.

Jon

No Circulators when I got the boat .....just raw water pump ....why would less pump ( which is what a Circulator does) make more pressue ? I have been reading about Circulator issues but thought if you run circulators increases Pressure .....

I took mine off last year, and while I am re-rigging the boat, I am installing the Merc pressure relief valves to avoid any water pressure issues.

Do a search in both the tech Q&A forum, and the general boating discussion on "water pressure" , and you will find plenty of information on this topic.

My 2 cents is that crossovers are fine if you use a pressure relief valve in the raw water line before the crossover. The Merc relief valves list for around $125, and you will need to have thru hull fittings somewhere to dump the extra water out. The reason I put crossovers on is that my circ pumps failed, and I run blowers, so I went for the crossovers for extra cooling. It also makes the front of engine easier to work on and look better.

For some reason the stock circ pump doesn't allow the block to become overpressured, probably because it doesn't allow too much flow in. With crossovers, whatever the sea pump is throwing at the block gets to the block, some boaters who run water psi gauges have seen over 60 psi! That's enough to blow gaskets. Some of my friends would blow hoses right off due to overpressure conditions. I never tested my water psi, but I am not going to risk it.

I will deff look up the info available ....I do remember something about restrictors ....I guess not to allow so much water ? But seems the pressure would be as high if not higher ...or maybe I am thinking about the pressure relief valves ...

Hmmmmmm, maybe I'm a "circulating pump bumpkin", but I've never heard of anyone removing the circulating pump. Why would this be advantageous?

Seems to me if you could or should run without a circulating pump, the engine manufacturers would omit them and save money for themselves.:confused:

The motors come from GM with the pumps on them.

The circ pumps ensure even block temps versus no circ pumps, especially in colder waters.

They also act as restrictions to extreme water pressure situations.

And you CANT run crossovers without additional plumbing for pressure dumps which negates the price advantage for Merc.

Advantage to not running them? Frees up 5 or 6 horsepower. Looks cool.

well ...6hp and looking cool might cost me 10K >>:(

Thanks for the expalination:)

For 5-6 hp and a little better looks, I'll leave my pumps in place.;)

Gee, I guess gaining five or six hp would probably increase my top speed by about .09 mph. To me the "hassle factor" intself wouldn't be worth it. Besides, for those with cool looking anodized or powerder coatd pulleys, it give one less cool thing to look at.

Personally I'm waiting for "lighted" or "strobing" fan belts.

As far as the comment above about restrictors, I think that you are talking about restrictor plates that can be used in some applications instead of thermostats - different issue. Those just act like a thermostat that is always partially open.

Another advantage to crossovers is that they allow more water to pass through the block, thus allowing for better cooling. That's not an issue for most engines, but if you are running a high horsepower it can be a benefit. Also, crossovers are tubing so they don't wear out, where circ pumps bearings, seals, etc can wear out as mine did and were leaking. I have heard of some people's circ pumps seizing - probably rare, but if that happens on the water.... Also less belts, and it is easier to change the sea water pump belt.

I don't think Merc uses crossovers with their new (about 2 years old) pressure dump valves, because if they did, they would be admitting water pressure issues. I actually think it is the pressure valves as they have had problems with some stock setups even with circ pumps. Could be a legal situation they are trying to avoid possibly. Essentially if they were to sell engines with a "fix" now, everyone who had a water pressure problem that ruined an engine in the past could start a class action lawsuit claiming prior flawed designs. Just a guess, but in general that is how big companies work.

Russ ....Thats .009 mph .

You're right, I forgot, I don't have a stepped hull.

Going to refer some questions on Tech forum ...

Guys,

See my comments in a recent thread on circulation pumps in Tech. Crossovers on non-blower motors are just not worth the hassle. I had alot of problems when I tried this years ago. Save your $$$ and your motors. Keep it simple and put circulating pumps on.

Chris

EM's Checked ok ....waiting on Head Test

:( :(

Offthefront,

No offense, but sometimes the deals you see are less then expected. Sorry to hear of your loss, but my boat for the price I think would have caused you less of a headache! Good Luck with the fix.

Dave

For whatever it's worth, I think that whenever you buy something used, boat, car, bike, whatever, you take a chance. Someone could own a boat for "X" years, taken immaculate care of it, a surveyor could give it "10's" across the board, and the first time out something could go wrong. As in most everything, it's just a roll of the dice.

Especially with boats, as the marine enviroment is the harshest, when you buy a boat older than a few years, you have to expect the unexpected. That's just the way it is. The other side of the fence is you can buy new, and then there is no assurance that something might not break, but you have the warranty to fall back on, but you paid for that warranty by buying new. All in all you either pay one way or you pay the other, but in boating you always pay.

The jury is still out and not sure who or what caused this ...For sure nothing intentionial or knowledge of a problem ....these motors have like 10 hours on them ...in any case in can be fixed ..move foward ..

Axa ..If I rmemeber yours was a 93 ? I still LOVE the older style ...Not that yours is not sweet ... This 10K just puts some plans on a delay ... Mike ...