Unforgivably Poor Workmanship on my 38 EC
 

Time to blow a lotta steam off...

....I bought a 2008 38 EC brand new from Shogren Fountain with a trailer.

Within a couple of months Reggie declared "bankruptcy" and my 6 year Hull warranty ceased to exist...

I took meticulous care of it, knowing I had no support from Fountain... Always on a trailer or hoist, and always inside, heated, storage in the Winter.

2 years ago, a tech thought he heard water dripping behind an engine, so we had it inspected, mechanically and structurally.

Here's what was found:

80% of the transom was completely rotted out, and about 3 feet of the rear stringers were mush!

How does this happen on a boat that only gets wet when it is running??

Really poor workmanship and assembly!!

1. There was no gelcoat or sealant where the thru-hull exhaust was cut out in the transom.

2. Worse yet, there is a collecting area for rain water, sea water, and bilge pump water that leads to the side drains. This area had zero water proofing in it... just white paint.

So everytime it rained, or the bilge pump ran, water seeped into the hull, which lead down to the transom, which butted up to the stringers (That had no waterproofing layer between
the transom and stringers) which soaked the stringers too.

Even though Fountain had gone through a couple of bankruptcies by this point, I called Customer Service for help... What a joke! I was told that the new owners had bought the assets,
but would not be liable for any past problems.. I asked them to at least donate marine-grade plywood to help defer my repair costs... NOPE, that would make them appear guilty of something.

In conclusion, The repair bill was nearly $30,000. I sold the boat as soon as it was seaworthy...
...More seaworthy now, than when Fountain built it.

I also learned from a number of High Performance salesmen, that Fountains are renowned for leaky hulls and wet stringers, and they are leery when they come up for trade.

Get your hulls checked ASAP, my outdrives were hanging on by the hydraulic steering rams!

Needless to say, I won't ever be buying my 4th Fountain.

Wow, just wow.

That's odd because I was told that after 2006 fountains used coosa board for stringers and transom. I was told after 2006 there is NO wood.

It may have been a 2008 MY boat, but who knows when the actual hull was built.

What would Reggie have done to assist some six years after the boat was built if he was still at the helm.

Yikes! Just put a deposit on a 2008 EC. Should I reconsider?

Survey says........

http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/...psda28d6e7.jpg

I don't think mine was the only one poorly built.

Unless, it was the one I fixed!!

In 2010, a 2006 47 without any scellant in the 6 exhaust tips, transom wood was simply wood dirt...

That`s not what I wanna hear.

Have we reached a 100 fountains on OSO yet that have reported non sealed exhaust tips that rotted the transom.....seems to be a few a month anyway.

Also Seems so odd that so many years and models and same damn exhaust tip deal.

No dog in this hunt but it seems so obvious and so inexpensive. Why didn't Fountain seal the exhaust tips? Helll, with labor and material you couldn't be talking about $50!

Padraig

It would be better to build the boat with an exposed solid wood transom and stringers. That worked for hundreds VB of years until some knucklehead decided to encapsulate the wood in fiberglass.

That sucks!
I've seen more issues with later models it seems. That said, a transom job isn't as big of a deal if you don't mind doing some work yourself. If the glass work is outsourced, shouldn't call st more then 5000.

Most surveyors are a joke. Get a rubber mallet and tap every inch of the transom inside and out. You will hear the rot.

And what's the difference in sound ?

Ahhhhhhhhhhh,winter is here.:whistle:

If there is a difference, there is a reason. It will sound hallow or more like a thud if it's just really wet. Transoms begin to rot at a through hull. So if it sounds different near the top of the gimble or around the pipes vs. in the high corners, you probably have an issue. Next step is to stand on the tabs and drives to see if there is any play. Last step is low ball offers:)

Same difference in when knocking on drywall with your knuckle to find a stud. One is a hollow thump, and the other is a solid knock.
Best bet is to get a moisture meter though when checking out a boat.
Just like with a Rinda scanner; you can go in with a group of local boating friends and share such expensive tools that don't get used overly often.

Same here on my 32 fountain, exhaust tip was the problem. Need exhaust tips that have a flange on them to secure them to the boat, not just some sealant and a plastic beauty ring on the outside. The vibration alone will work on the sealant. Come on Fountain, really. By the way where I get my boat repairs done, two fountains there getting dissembled for new transoms, 38 and a 47. The 47 problem was the exhaust tips and 38 is not apart. Makes me think twice about another Fountain. Don't get me wrong I like my fountain now that its solid again, but when I sell this one, she most likely the last fountain for me.

Same here on my 32 Fountain, exhaust tips was the cause of the rotted transom. All fountain had to do was use a different style tip, Like one with a flange on it to fasten to the boat. Not like how they did with a bead of caulk and plastic beauty ring to had the sealant, if you was lucky one to get sealant. The marina in my area has two fountains in there right now for transom jobs. 38 and 47, and 47 is apart and same thing, exhaust tips. Really fountain. Don't get me wrong I like my fountain now that's solid again, but most likely to never buy a fountain again. I know it happens to other brands but fountain has to be winning the rotten transom race. lol.

By the way go on you tube and look at the video of the guys do the glass work, Those guys where saying as they are working on a $200,000. plus boat. F**k those white guys! Just my thought. LOL

Sorry about the double post, I thought the first one was lost.

Strange thing mine had the same issue but a friend with the same year and model (3 s/n'a differance) is solid as a rock.
There are other ways to seal, I have dry to tip so had to use sealer/ trim rings/ and a gasket. They will not leak.

All boats do have issues, the same shop that did mine has velocitys, fourmula's (at least not deck separation), Baja's etc. even a couple cigs.

Issue is production boat and the people building don't care. I do think we hear about fountain a lot because people love to hate and the number they produced. Other then Baja not sure anyone made as many.

I have always felt the older pre public company fountain boats were built better. It's weird some **** is good and some rigging I just scratch my head and wonder what they were thinking.

They must have changed . Since i have owned my 1990, I've had to do work in several areas of the hull. I've had to enlarge exhaust holes, to accomodate 4.5" tailpipes, wood was dry as a bone. I've had to drill into stringers, to mount things like fuel filter heads, dry there as well. This past spring, had to drill into lower transom, to install water pickup for intercoolers, dry as a bone there as well. Boat is 26 years old.

unfortunately, I've seen that on Sunsations, Scarabs, Formulas, and Cigarettes. My buddy removed his exhaust tips from his 38 Cigarette, and found massive voids in the transom. Sunsations right from the factory without even paint on the wood where they cut the exhaust holes. I know the fiberglass shop local here, has done stringer, transom, bulkhead, and all sorts of hull repairs due to rot, on many different brands of offshore boats.

It does seem though, that some companies, improved their quality over the years, and some have declined.

Agreed... cigs, have the "best" reputation but there have been plenty of rotten cigs. In my opinion it is less acknowledged because of the lower numbers of cig boats vs fountains and the average cig owner just pays to have it fixed vs discussing in forums/social media.

Cigs were rigged and sealed a lot better than most. Some get neglected, and not maintained and rot. My 88 fountain 12 meter was used hard but never left wet and was bone dry. My 83 10 meter was about 90% dry, only spot that needed attention was rigging done by someone much later in its life. The later fountains I've worked are not sealed up or even laid up close to as well as the older ones.

Fountains are also more likely to have transom issues over other brands from the exhaust being so much closer to water level.

Were all of your fountains like this?

Do You have any idea how much work it is to build a boat?
How hard it is to get workers to work for you?
Especially when you are in high demand you get really swamped. Every one is burned out.
All the workers are doing all they can and are working so many hours so WE can have a cool fast Fountain powerboat. somebody missed caulking your exhaust. oh well. You gotta check that sh!t

But this was on a EC, I don't think those are that close to water.

I don't see how you can justify sub-par workmanship on a boat that cost what, $300-400-500K when it was new?

For comparison-sake, say a new car/truck has a leaky window that trashed the interior or electronics and required replacement, this would be unacceptable by most of the people on this site.

There is no excuse for a boat 8 years old needing $30,000 worth of work due to lazy construction and quality control processes, regardless of the manufacturer. The damage didn't happen all of a sudden, obviously it started from the first time the boat was rolled out of the factory, put in the water, and caught in that first rain-storm. From the sound of it, about ten minutes and $5.00 worth of materials would have prevented the majority of the long-term damage on this boat if only one guy, who's job it was to do these tasks in the first place, would have given a half-a-phuck.


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WOW! So the customer is to blame for poor design and or poor workmanship! Please tell me you were expressing sarcasm.

Padraig

Every boat was new at one time and assembly choices were made. So there really is no excuse for the transom issue. Maybe a bean counter decision, maybe just cutting corners on the floor to get it done. I agree that with $5 worth of materials and PROPER exhausts exits there would be many less issues. This ranks up there with Formula on the deck and engine bay liner bonding issues.

So fountain employee's don't have a break room, they have safe zones and the shop foreman walks around giving hugs?

My job is mentally and physically challenging.
I think I'm just going to start cutting corners and generally start doing a $hitty job.
When anyone asks why, I'll just point out that it's REALLY hard and I need
A hug. :angry-smiley-038:

If people were perfect, they would not have to depend on azzhats like you to put food on the table. Everyone makes mistakes . I don't care how much money you spent . If you have a high perf boat with the exhaust close to the water. You should research it. Unless you are just plain a driver only. Ha ha. Then you need a sea ray. Ha ha. There was no intetion act of wrong doing on this guys boat. Do you think fountain wanted it to happen? Take your hate and shove it. Go and ***** somewhere else . This is a happy place and once again . Hate hate hate. I just look at the plus side. That being. Only a few of them had this trouble . My 2000 is still perfect and solid . And if i happen to be only one of the few with a good boat . Well maybe thats cause im just positive. I been ****ed over before. I bicchhed before. But only when i delt with the worker myself at the time . I'm not attacking the brand . Just the worker . But how can i when no bodies perfect. (Unless you had a face to face whith the person that made the mistake. And they just pksin don't give a sh!t. )You are just guessing who screwed up and thats up to you . But we all like our fountains. And I'm sure the are Sorry that something like this happened. So everone check your exhaust pipes. Thats all you needed to say " everone check your exhaust pipes " Fack all of your guys hate

I'm not sure how "hate" came into this. The OP is a 3 time owner of Fountains. I don't think you could have qualified him as a hater.
Several boat brands went to hell over the years due to the labor and financial crises over the past 10 years or so; not to ownership that also destroyed some companies.

So my job s helping people meet death... If I screw up, does that mean they live??? If yo really want to discuss boats with rot, we could talk about wellcraft. Trucks rust boats rot, it happens... Some just have better preventative measures than others