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Why it's not "big" time

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Old 05-18-2005, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

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Originally Posted by hillbilly24
What league would that be, the class for boats that are 8 feet shorter then the rest of the competition, weighing less, and running special edetion Reggie resealed motors, therefor they have an unfair advantage ?



Don't be a Fountain Hater
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Old 05-18-2005, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

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Originally Posted by tomtbone1993
Don't be a Fountain Hater
but it's so easy. I actually like those beak boats for some reason though. And if I didn't say it, someone else would have by morning.
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Old 05-18-2005, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

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Originally Posted by Indy
NO...

Everybody owns a car so they can relate at some level to car racing. Few own boats and have never been on one, they don't care about the sport. Heck...I've owned boats for 35 years and I could care less about the sport!! They even have lawnmower racing on tv more than boat racing!!! I guess everyone owns one of those too LOL!!!!
Much like 'Foul, I have to agree with the buckeye (and it pains this U of M grad just as much!). Personally, I just can't muster up much interest in boat racing. I enjoy watching the infrequent TV appearances, and we anchored out to watch the races the last time they ran in Lake St. Clair, but it's certainly not something I'm going to go out of my way to paricipate in - and I can't put my finger on any one reason why I feel that way, though the constant pissing, moaning, and general 5 year old temper tantrum antics around the subject certainly doesn't help...
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Old 05-19-2005, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

As the majority of folks who have commented have put some thought into their postings I will honor them by replying.
RON P - The NASCAR/Offshore comparison was only brought up because I hear and read so many within the sport talking about it in those terms. Obviously there are huge differences. In a perfect world where dreams are fulfillied maybe we could see Offshore approach NASCAR in popularity.
RON P- you did back my case in one way and that's the fact that you are one racer who races for the fun of it. No problem. I respect all the folks who are there for the fun of racing and I understand it. It's just that if the sport is to grow then it has to be for more than the racers themselves. Believe me, I think the racers should enjoy the race sites on and off the water whether it goes to a big time sport or remains where it is. If everyone is happy with where it is right now or as some stated, they'd like to revert to the "old type" of racing then so be it and throw the green flag.
INDY- You areright ... the show is the difference. Everyone owns a car and that is part of the attraction of NASCAR.
WATERFOUL- Not everyone owns a NASCAR type car so although the brands attract the show is bigger than that. How many Toyota's, Honda's Mitsubuihi's, etc. do you see on the NASCAR Circuit? The crowds are still there despite the fact that Toyota is right up there with GM in car sales yet the various sports car circuits don't come close to NASCAR.
INTERCEPTOR-You are right. The organizational confusion contributes greatly to the problems. But I still say,remove the organziations and talk philosophy because (as I said in the first post) once the boats leave the dock the organization doesn't matter ... the drivers are in control. By the way, you talked about 400,000 showing up for the Spirit of Detroit. That's usually a one day figure. 750,000 is the weekend. To revert to a previous arguement about everyone owning cars hardly anyone owns an Unlimited Hydroplane. Their show is great because of the massive rostertails although most fans of that sport will admit that the turbine took something away from the "Thunderboats". The show also diminsihed with the dominance of one boat for so many years. Still, Seattle draws 500,00 and San Diego over 200,000. In all three of those locations, there is a festival around the events which is another key to the race sites. The actual races serve as a highlight to a big party!
HILLYBILLY24 - I agree most of the racers do not do it for the money yet most of the racers still want sponsors and such. And by the way, I am not going to defend Mike Allweis as that's another can of worms. Oh, and don't worry about me "lurking". I have read these posts for years without commenting because of certain situations that I'd rather not get into. Rest assured I have NO agenda and I do love the sport. Like you I hope these discussions can be kept on point and helpful down the line.
CUDA- The old style racing has a certain appeal but the idea of closed circuit television would be so costly it would be virtually impossible.
EXPRESS 39- Thanks!
SPEED2LEAD-See above ... no hidden agenda!
TOMTBONE 1993- I agree on the baby steps but still believe it starts with the philosophy the racers and organizers have.
PETE B- Have been to Ft. Meyers numerous times and agree with you!
One more thing ... Idenity? I didn't identify and won't now because that causes another can to open. Right away it's something of an attack because it's so and so. I am just stating an opinion based on years around the sport. I can tell you about Reb Wickersham missing a turn bouy and ending up having a Greek lunch in Tarpon Springs.. I remember Don Pruitt driving the first ever Molinari hull in the U.S. ... I remember Dr. Magoon's record runs and his racing. The names of Magluta, Kramer and Falcone are more than familiar. I was around when Gene Whipp was racing inboard hydro's. How about the tradgeties in Key West like the Jesse James and Tom Gentry. I can talk to you about the Unlimiteds as well. All I am saying is I have been around boat racing in all forms for over 40 years. My comments are not made without thought!
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Old 05-19-2005, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

Ok, since BoatNutz has "honored" us with a second post... I will also "honor" this thread with a very serious question.

Who stands to gain what, and do we really want to be like Nascar?

Do we want to be so overexposed and overblown that the people who have enjoyed "the sport" can't get near it anymore?

Without TV it will never be Nascar.
Nascar is about sponsorships. Sponsorships are about money.
Money spent for exposure.
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Old 05-19-2005, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

Fund, you bring up a great point. Be careful of what you wish for.

Ft Lauderdale was no picnic. It was so busy it took an hour to get from the pits to the beach to watch the race. As opposes to most other races that are typically so intimate you can go anywhere in the race village without obstruction. Try to do that at a NASCAR event.

Fans bring revenue and sponsors. Sponsors bring money and help offset the cost of racing. If racers could get sponsorship that would allow them to break even, there would be more people racing. The one real problem remains. There's very few locations that could serve as a stadium for offshore races with seats, vendors and the ability to charge at the gate.

Forgetting all the other issues, Allwiess had a real understanding of how to make racing marketable. He was terrific in the first year or two and his actions moved the sport forward. He gave the racers what they wanted. Strict enforcement of the rules, a chance to win on any given day and a vision for the future. I believe that vision of the future is still alive in some racers and time will tell if they can produce positive results.

Let's start with enforcing parity between race boats. Side by side racing is great to watch. I know Reggie would prefer to lap the field in every race but that's not fun to watch nor is it fun to race against.

I use the term FUN often because for the racers spending their weekends away from home, spending way more than they should on hulls, engines and travel, they better be enjoying themselves, or they won't last in this sport. Once money comes into the sport, then the fun factor can go way down as you'd see more owners stepping out of the boat and putting paid drivers in the boats, just like NASCAR.
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Old 05-19-2005, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

Thanks Ron.

That's exactly what I was getting at.
You were able to develop my point much better since you are part of the racing culture.

BTW... have a fast safe season!
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Old 05-19-2005, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

Cudos to both Ron P and Fund. Both of those replies are on point.
FUND- you are right about the accessibility of any sport when it gets big and that goes to the root of the question to all racers. Do they want it "big"? As I said earlier, if it's let's go racing and have some fun and if anyone shows up to watch that's great, then so be it.
Your question about who benefits is also a strong point. At present you have a combination of two circuits where the promoter is paid in some form and you have a solo circuit that says it is non-profit. I suppose the ideal would be an organization that channels the money back into the sport to the benefit of the racers ... higher purses, etc. It's not an easy question and certainly is worth debate! By the way, as you know, there are expenses in an organization non-profit or otherwise.
RON P- First of all it was good to hear that Mike A. could be recognised for some of the good he did and I agree wholeheartily. I didn't agree on everything but to not acknowledge the good he did accomplish and tried to accomplish would be wrong.
You are also right on with the racers spending time away from home on the weekend and most times their families are along. My kids grew up in the pits for several catagories of racing and it is always one of the most attractive things about boat racing for the participants. Families and enjoyment by the racers should definitely be considered in any arrangement big or otherwise.
And by the way, if anyone was offended by my "honoring"" those who posted with a reply pleae forgive me. I was refering to my want to give direct replies and not just to the last comments. I wanted each to know I took time to read the posts. I have nothing but respect for those who participate in the sport.
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Old 05-19-2005, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

Hey Boatnutz.

I was kidding you with the "honor" thing. No offense.
You make some very well informed points for a three-poster.

Sounds to me like you are part of the racing scene.
Maybe you should post more.
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Old 05-19-2005, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

I'll repeat my my previous comment regarding organization. Look at the state of open wheel racing since the CART-IRL split. Neither sells out. The racers, fans and sponsors don't know who will be running the show and what the rules will be.

To me offshore boat racing has a fit similar to SCCA or the current LeMans racing going on. Big equipment and little TV and small fan base at events.

Regarding stadium boat racing sites. The Detroit River off Belle Isle is perfect and they did run offshores there in the early 80's. But again like hydros probably a huge crowd but no gate receipts.

ed
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