Like Tree0Likes

Why it's not "big" time

Reply
Old 05-19-2005, 03:30 PM
  #31
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 18
Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

FUND RAZOR-No offense taken. I'm not as "in the scene" as much as previous years which is why I felt I was better positioned to bring up the topic. I have to say I am enjoying the input and am happy others such as yourself, are participating.
Boatnutz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 03:36 PM
  #32
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 18
Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

Interceptor- you are right about Detroit of Belle Isle. I had to laugh when you brought up Offshore racing on that track as I remember press day before one of the OS events and Gene Whip flipped a little V bottom right dead center in front of the downtown lunch crowd.
Actually, I think Milwaukee has a good course. It's a little tight on the one end but the fans sure get a kick out of watching everyone come through there. Both courses prove (as do some others) that you can have spectators involved. However, outside of the old Miami Marine Stadium, it's almost impossible at most sites to charge admission so the events become dependent on sponsors. That again brings up the catch 22 of the sponsors wanting to expose their products to the maximum amount of fans, etc.
Boatnutz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 04:49 PM
  #33
Enjoy the show
VIP Member
 
Ron P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Joisey Shore
Posts: 10,353
Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

It is what it is, until it changes.

Until then, hopefully you enjoy the show.

I really think this sport needs someone on the inside that worked for one of the other forms of motor sport that have been brought to a new level. Look at Monster trucks, they are only about 10 years old and look at the crowds they draw and the TV they get. How come? Good marketing? The drivers know how to talk when they are interviewed and they know how to give the audience what they want. They play to the audience. Offshore doesn't.

We need more in the way of parity. I know for some that's a bad word. For others, it's their salvation.
Ron P is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 10:01 PM
  #34
Registered
 
hillbilly24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,358
Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

Parity, theres a touchy subject. As much as I hate the basic concepts of it, it does make for more exciting and fan friendly racing. There are ways to refine it and enforce it fairly though. Most people don't realize that NASCAR has a parity system, they know the rules exist but don't view it as parity wich it is. They take the cars to the wind tunnel, and based on aero information, they restrict ride height and spoiler height regulations based on this info, the cars are equal aroedynamically speaking. NASCAR is a driver/setup race, off shore racing is a Driver/setup/boat race. NASCAR has managed to take the original car desginer out of the equation, and made it a driver/crew race, wich makes for much better racing, have you ever noticed that in NASCAR people mention the drivers name when people ask who's fan they are, but in boat racing people ask what boat builder they are a fan of ? Theres something to chew on for a while. In the Unlimited Hydroplane world, the team by team fuel parity system is the only thing they can do becuase the boats are wild one of customs, as are the engines, they can't set a standard restriction on anything else so fuel is where they went, and again I don't know that I am a fan of it but I think that parity is ONE of the reasons that unlimiteds are pretty popular, it makes the race fun to watch, even with one team dominating for the last century. The one thing I realy didn't agree with them on was when they wanted to detune the piston boat, come on if the turbine guys can't keep up with the piston boys, they are to slow not the other way around. If you wanted to enforce a parity system, you would have to designate a specific boat from each builder that was participting to be used in each class, say in P5 you wanted to run a Fountian, you would have to run a 27 fever. Then you would do some testing with the boats at the beggining of every season with the same driver and throttleman in each in the same water ont he same day, and level them all based on this info, wether it be weight or power restrictions is a whole nother topic to discuss. The other thing you would have to do is forget about Fountian putting any backing into your series Like I said, I'm not huge fan a parity, But it is an option that I think needs to be explored in it's refined forms. It doesn't work very well though when it is team by team as opposed to Boat model bu boat model, people don't get quite as singled out that way and I think they may be more willing to except it.
On the Micheal A. topic, I know the man did some good for the sport, it was his last year or so that was rough, It is a shame that that is all he will be remembered for and I myself admit that I often forget about the good he did, I still blame him single handedly for the division of racers into 3 series though and that is hard to forget!!!
hillbilly24 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 10:12 PM
  #35
Banned
 
cuda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Deland, Florida
Posts: 25,191
Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

[QUOTE=Pete B]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuda
I kind of agree with the old style racing. It may not be fan freindly, but the fans on the shore aren't paying anyway, and after the first lap, nobody knows who is racing who. I try to follow racing, and I can't tell.

I would like to suggest you come to Ft, Myers to the http://www.edisonoiloffshoreraceforrecovery.com/ and watch a OSS race. thier formula has only 5 classes, And very fan friendly. wether by boat or on top of the lani kai, the beach the pier there wont be a bad viewing of this race. I am certain all will enjoy it.
I've been to an OSS race, in St Pete last year.
cuda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 10:17 PM
  #36
Enjoy the show
VIP Member
 
Ron P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Joisey Shore
Posts: 10,353
Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

Face it, watching boats race in rough water is exciting. Watching a close race in rough water is over the top exciting.

Calm water racing is not exciting and calm water racing where there is no passing boring.

As a fan, I want to see boats flying, position changes and the start line up. Parity is the answer if a fan base is wanted. Parity will also cause more bumping and rubbing. Which is great for fans, bad for racers. I guess it all comes down to who is the customer, the racer or the fan. Right now its the racers.
Ron P is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2005, 10:44 PM
  #37
Banned
 
cuda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Deland, Florida
Posts: 25,191
Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

I don't think fans are that concerned with parity. Take the NFL for example. They say the fans watch more when there are a few dominate teams for years. Fans are either there to root them on, or to boo them.

Even in Nascar, when Dale Sr was racing, there were tons of fans there just to watch him, and the rest were there just to boo him. Jeff Gordon was in the same boat. Very few care about the bottom 35 racers, they want to see the clash of the titans.
cuda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 10:37 AM
  #38
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 18
Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

Fund- No offense taken. Just wanted to be clear that I wasn't trying to be elitist. Anyway, the discussion contiues on a positive track with earnest concerns and good thinking prevailing.
CUDA- Parity IS in the NFL probably more than anyother sport. Dynasties can attract for the reasons you state but there is also that thing about any team standing a shot at winning. The NFL has done a good job making the field look equal at the beginning of the season. It takes awhile for those "dynasties" to prove themselves and by that point the season is more than half over. Then it's a matter ... can anyone knock them off. Witness the New England Patriots going into this year.
SHANE B.- I'm kind of sorry I brought up the NASCAR/Offshore thing. I was only stating it originally because I hear it and read it so much. They are indeed apples and oranges for many reasons, some of which you stated. I was trying to say that a big difference is the show. Have you noticed even when there is a dominant driver the television still moves further back in the pack? That didn't happen several years ago. Now they talk about battles all over the field.
In essence you got at the heart of what I am talking about. You put on the show and then you worry about the race. Let's say you got 30 laps on a course. Battle for 25 or so and then drag race to the finish. As the sport grows in appeal through the show, the racing comes more and more into the forefront. It's all a matter of somehow putting action on the water. That can be done with parity and certainly we have all seen races in certain classes lately that have been great races. Sometimes the course forces it, and sometimes it's parity. Right now television coverage is basically one or two boats at a time on the screen.
CUDA-By the way, I totally agreee with you on the consistency thing. Like you, I have seen rules incidents where there has been no hint of consistency. It's got to be the same across the board and it has to be enforced equally. I know some racers who have pulled away because they don't feel they were treated equally.I can't speak to the validity of the claim but when you get a bunch of folks saying the samething, it's worth considering.
Boatnutz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 10:40 AM
  #39
Registered
 
fund razor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
My Boats: Apache 28 Brave
Posts: 8,170
Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

Hey... stop telling me that you aren't offended or I'm gonna get paranoid.
fund razor is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2005, 11:36 AM
  #40
Registered
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 18
Default Re: Why it's not "big" time

fUND- Definitely don't want you paranoid!
HILLYBILL 24- WOW! You said a mouthful and it was loaded with some great points to ponder.
I guess we still have to wait and see about the Unlimiteds and whether they will survive without Miss. Budweiser. I think the sad thing there is that I understand Bud has pulled out their on-site money which was a life line for several of the stops. I think they are down to six races this year. It was just a couple of years ago that Tommy D'Eath pulled the Spirit of Detroit together at the last minute. Who would have thought that particular race would have a problem.
You are also right about the fuel being the only thing they could control It wasn't that long ago they couldn't even dyno a turbine because it was being used as a marine engine. It's still a question as to how the circuit will go with Bernie Little and Gary Garbrech both gone from the scene.
On Mike A. you are right-on in my humble opinion. He had it going the right way when the train went off the track for some reason.
I will say one thing about parity ... it's tough on the inspectors. To my knowledge, their expenses are taken care of but they aren't making any money. Just like Little League umps ... they are basically volunteers and yet they get a raft of ... well you know what I mean. It is sort of a no-win situation. That's pretty true for most of the officials.

Last edited by Boatnutz; 05-20-2005 at 11:40 AM. Reason: spelling
Boatnutz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
bobo1
OPA/The Jersey Boyz
0
04-23-2008 08:36 PM
electrical1
General Q & A
11
11-09-2006 09:51 AM
mikesufka
General Boating Discussion
8
12-26-2002 12:23 PM



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:37 PM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.