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Why Not Volvo Penta or Vortec?

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Old 09-08-2005, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: Why Not Volvo Penta or Vortec?

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Originally Posted by mr_velocity
Who cares how they look. In the top picture the entire lower is under water, how fast is that boat going to go?? For a cruiser it would be ok but I doubt you're going to get the setup going over 70 mph.

Also, that drive (top pic) is designed to break away, had a few good articles about it in Power & Motoryacht including a report when it did come in contact with the bottom. Not pretty.

My concern is prop selection with non-merc drives or are props available with 4 or 5 blades for Volvos?
frequentflyer cares how they look!

You can use all the Merc props with the flo-torq hub kit and several others make props for Volvos.

I agree the biggest drawback is the lack of performance parts. But I can tell you that I am now looking at upgrading to a bigger boat and my biggest fear is going back to merc drives. My Volvo has been flawless. Oh, and they shift like butter.
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Old 09-08-2005, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: Why Not Volvo Penta or Vortec?

I know a several people (7-8) that have Volvo's and have never had a single failure! The Volvo also does not, to my knowledge have a coupler like a Merc does. That is good and bad as we Merc owners know a coupler can save your day or ruin it. The other downside to a Volvo drive is performance parts. I have not spoken to anyone in the propeller labbing business that knows how to lab the duo-prop volvo.
Someone also asked if the engines were the same, Volvo vs. Merc. The answer is yes. They share same basic long block configurations but the electronic package is different.
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: Why Not Volvo Penta or Vortec?

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Originally Posted by hpoffshore
Foutain built some boats(38F/47L that I saw) with Volvo DPX's and similar power to C-SPRAY's, and I can assure you that they went cosiderably faster that 70 mph.
This drive is an IPS not a DPX. I seriously doubt you will find an IPS on any Fountain. If he has used this drive and was able to get more than 70 mph please show me. It may look pretty but there is nothing perfomance about this drive.
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Old 09-08-2005, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: Why Not Volvo Penta or Vortec?

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Originally Posted by mr_velocity
This drive is an IPS not a DPX. I seriously doubt you will find an IPS on any Fountain. If he has used this drive and was able to get more than 70 mph please show me. It may look pretty but there is nothing perfomance about this drive.
I understand they're not intended for HP applications, they're an alternative to a v-drive setup.

As far as the volvo drive.... I've seen a lot of them and none were ever broken. In fact, when I worked at the local marina for 5 years, I never saw one broken volvo drive. Same goes for the OMC cobra drive,, never saw one break.

The earlier volvo drives ( you know, before the patent ran out and Mercury stole the idea ) ran with 30 wt motor oil rather than gear oil. Every once in a while we would disassemble the uppers and lightly sand the cones on the gears and clutch because they would become glazed. Then they were good for another couple hundred hours. If you mistakenly ran gear oil the drive would have shifting problems.

Besides, look at the new bravo design,,, looks more like a Volvo to me...
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Old 09-08-2005, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: Why Not Volvo Penta or Vortec?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_velocity
This drive is an IPS not a DPX. I seriously doubt you will find an IPS on any Fountain. If he has used this drive and was able to get more than 70 mph please show me. It may look pretty but there is nothing perfomance about this drive.
Nor is it marketed or intened to be a performance drive. As Panther stated they are an alternative to a V-drive. Who said that was a performance drive?

Chris runs them on his Batboats and look at the abuse those boats take! That's gotta say something! And I think some of his boats may be faster than 70!
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Old 09-08-2005, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Why Not Volvo Penta or Vortec?

I posted the IPS as a styling statement - sorry for the confusion there. The pros and cons of that system are fodder for a whole 'nother thread. Suffice it to say that the plant that makes them is working three shifts a day right now to keep up with demand. NOT for go-fasts, though.

My Formula (38' / 12,000 lbs) has run just shy of 79 mph with the DPX's, my 28' Batboat with a 600DPX runs 93 mph+, and the Rain-X Express Batboat ran 108 mph in race conditions (not a kilo run) in 1996 with 720 hp and a DPX (and promptly got booted out of A-class).

You WILL lose a few mph with a DPX at speeds over 75 mph, but it will give you much better cruise efficiency. That's one of the reasons I like them. It's a shame they don't make it any more.

The drive I posted with the diesel (the DP-R) is not yet available with gasoline engines, but it currently handles 700+ ft-lbs, includes integral hydraulic steering, and does not require a transmission.

I took a set of DPX props to the DeWalds in PA (you tunnel boat racers will know), and asked them to look at them. They were very impressed, just did a (very small) amount of balancing, and gave them back to me, recommending that I leave them alone. (Why doesn't Mercury sell props like that?)

You don't need 4- or 5-bladed props when you already have 6 blades.

I have a complete older-style (DPX-R) setup with 530hp/502, transom assembly, and a spare drive if anyone is interested. See the pictures in the "Miscellaneous" section of my site (below). If anyone is interested, I can provide first-hand accounts of how that package ran when I had it in my BatBoat.
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Old 09-08-2005, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: Why Not Volvo Penta or Vortec?

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Originally Posted by noboat
Nor is it marketed or intened to be a performance drive. As Panther stated they are an alternative to a V-drive. Who said that was a performance drive?
Sorry, didn't know I typed cruiseronly.com or brokenriverboat.com for Panther Sorry bro I had to hit you with that one

I guess my real beef is too many people just comment on how pretty something is and don't even bother to think about the application or if all that bling actually works.

Are V drives not performance? I have seen both.
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Old 09-08-2005, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: Why Not Volvo Penta or Vortec?

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Originally Posted by mr_velocity
Sorry, didn't know I typed cruiseronly.com or brokenriverboat.com for Panther Sorry bro I had to hit you with that one

I guess my real beef is too many people just comment on how pretty something is and don't even bother to think about the application or if all that bling actually works.

Are V drives not performance? I have seen both.
Well, it was frequentflyer that stated he wanted something "sportier" because a Volvo on a performance boat would look "odd". I was gonna rip on him a little but I decided not too.
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Old 09-08-2005, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Why Not Volvo Penta or Vortec?

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Originally Posted by noboat
Well, it was frequentflyer that stated he wanted something "sportier" because a Volvo on a performance boat would look "odd". I was gonna rip on him a little but I decided not too.
There is no doubt that Volvo makes some really nice stuff, I took my first ride in a DPX powered boat back in the mid-90s. Very cool indeed, the boats handling was incredible. However, from a numbers perspective I would like to see more DPXs on performance boats before we make a comparison with the Bravos. I have been running comletely stock Bravos behind my 41 Velocity for almost 10 years. The only failure I have seen is 1 tooth taken off a gear. This is behind 600 hp motors and I tend to run very hard. Hearing the stories I consider myself very lucky

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Old 09-08-2005, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Why Not Volvo Penta or Vortec?

The Innovation/Volvo 500/525/600DPX program was scrapped when the installations got out of Volvo's control. Builders were looking for every last tenth of an mph (for bragging rights), and mounted the drives so high they became surface-piercing. This set up all sorts of nasty vibrations in the lower unit, because both props are driving off of a common pinion. The resulting failures fed the rumor mill, and the plug was pulled. I don't know how many 600DPX packages made it into the field, but from what I heard, failures were/are extremely rare.

Since I run my boat at 100% throttle about .05% of the time, absolute maximum speed is not that big a deal to me. If it was, It wouldn't be carrying a generator, A/C water heater, etc. Cruising efficiency and reliability ARE important, and I'm ecstatic with what I got and the big, big bucks I saved.
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