T2X,
Granted, a few of those "Factory race models" have come apart, and a few of those "unqualified operators" have found out the hard way what an "oops" is.
Is this to say that you have never damaged a boat by missing on a roller or hooking in a turn? Are you saying you have never gotten a cut or bruise in an offshore boat when pushing up to the edge? How did you learn where the "edge" is?
You brought some great history to the board. I really enjoyed some of it. But, as your post, (and ego?) progress, I'm thinking the "High Tide Challenge" sounds like a good time.
Your son could add some great stuff to his collection.

Okay--- Point taken there Beachboy... interesting lite hearted comeback (I think)....I'm not getting your fixation on kinky sex but to each his ..er.. her.. er..your er its own. Whatever that has to do with boats shall remain a mystery. (yours not mine).

In the spirit of Screamin Demon who made a reasonable suggestion...Let's meet in the middle..

So this is about answers..... Everybody wants answers.... Okay..... if you're rich enough to afford a plane, you're rich enough to learn to fly it... There are flight schools all over the world. There are also real good high performance driving schools...for cars. But boats you learn the hard way. You learn by watching and asking and listening...and mostly by driving. There is no substitute for seat time. The problem is that a lot of us learned the limits in small boats (in my case as small as 11 feet in length) later these limits scaled up into larger craft...so did the speed. I'm not sure how you solve the problem of someone "earning enough money" to afford a boat that he or she has no basis of experience to drive. In spite of your statement earning money rarely translates into intelligence or any other talents. The issue is that these boats are most lethal at their limits and you can't know these limits until you've been beyond them.... Old tunnel adage..but still true.."you're not a tunnel driver until you've flipped one". The only real little starter boats right now are waverunners and jetskis, which may teach you more bad habits than good.

But for the sake of argument let's say you can learn..or better yet have the boat tested at 165 and you keep it below 150 (a 10% margin).... That does you no good if a drive seizes and whips control away from you. Now if that happens and you're belted in, and wearing protective gear, and have a canopy over your head, and an oxygen system, and a chase/rescue team nearby...the probability is that you will survive. If however you and 6 friends are in the middle of a joke when the sky falls in ...the probability is that you(and your buddies) will get badly hurt.

What is the solution? How do we assure that only qualified drivers under safe conditions zoom at incredible speed over the water? We BETTER find out soon. This year alone I have heard of a 36' cat in Michigan killing a couple of people when the owner performed 100 plus mph "figure 8's" shortly after sundown. Another poor soul had his face shattered in a brand new 36 footer in a poker Run on Long Island Sound, and of course Jack Carmody is ,sadly, no longer with us after cutting back on the canopy strength of his race boat. I started this post after hearing about the infamous step vee spinout in Atlantic City that landed a girl in intensive care a few weeks ago. And this is just a fraction of the incidents going on at an ever increasing rate. Twin 29 has a good point. If we don't learn some hard lessons and kill the machismo and ego mania the Federal by God "govmint" is gonna "protect us from ourselves".

Where to start... Some years ago there were well enforced horsepower ratings on boats..based on an antiquated formula of course.... This basically was an industry mandated measurement and it worked up to a point. What it did do however was place the responsibility on boat builder's shoulders to at least try and control their product's speeds. Granted, the whole purpose of a "speed boat" is speed so I submit the manufacturers might adopt something like the following steps as a start:

1. Pool resources and create a professional driving curriculum to "qualify" boat owners before allowing them to purchase one of their faster, high end boats. This qualification would require periodic retraining and updating to remain valid...and should be supported by insurance companies in the form of reduced rates or even basic availability.

2. Install basic safety cell technology on all boats capable of over 100 mph. This would eliminate, flying objects, sharp edges, and give each passenger some kind of secure area with handles, water deflection characteristics, and protection. Some form of helmet would not be a bad idea (Bicyclists even wear them) and a light weight racing life vest.

3. Expose the folly of dangerous designs that provide either no or limited performance increases at the expense of vast amounts of safety and handling (spinning in... steps etc). This should be left to experts, engineers, hydrodynamicists, safety engineers, and designers...(See the Lavin Foundation members) to study and explain.

4. Put speed limits on Poker Runs and limit top speed to tightly controlled Radar shootouts, with full safety precautions and no more than 2 people per boat, before or after the event..... "Jet Set" running flat out 90 miles from NYC to Haverstraw to NYC proves the same thing as one good kilo run... The boat goes like hell.

5.Use forums like this to promote safety in addition to technology... Have a safety forum that disects accidents, affixing responsibility, pointing out preventive measures and keeping the chorus going... Use some discreet censorship making it "cool" to be competent, safe, and fast...rather than some of the skinhead,rascist perjoratives one reads on this site at times. Come to think of it, that is probably the most important thing we should concentrate on...being mature and responsible....leave the "Til I got High" crap to the children.

Beach Boy this may not have met your requirements for a quick fix, but it's the best I can do on short notice.... What do you have to add to the process?

T2x.

STUFF????

'yes john....sir....they are out there crashing and sinking and such....made headlines the other day.....yessir HEADLINES....said they were doing 60 miles an hour....I think thats good....yes...I think we can use that...people are getting bored with crime and drugs....we got an election coming up and we're slipping in the poles and need something fresh....no, the competition hasnt taken a stand yet.... we'll be first on it....yeah....down with high performance boaters.....thats good....thats good....we could....get tough....just like we did with that crack cocaine thing....remember that little gem....saved our asses....yes I like it too...DOWN WITH HIGH PERFORMANCE BOATERS....you know what John...sir...WE MIGHT JUST WIN THIS ELECTION YET.............C'mon guys (and girls)Dont make headlines,dont giv'em a chance......

Hi Gordo:
My ego is fine... thanks for asking... and it really isn't very big.

Now as far as factory race boats... here's the issue... The racing body sets a weight limit for "stock factory boats"...right?
Okay, this limit can be set anywhere and should be based on a limit that allows for a super strong laminate schedule. However, the ruling poobahs have caved in to the demand for lighter, faster in calm water, layups..... SO... the boats disintegrate, sometimes in calm water...for no apparent reason. This makes the builders look bad.... Than why do they do it.... because the other guy is doing it and they are therefore forced to do the same thing.... The answer...step back..take a common sense look.... mandate increased weight... and strength. Now some builders will maintain that they can build light boats that are just as strong...maybe they can,
maybe they can't... so far the fibreglass splinters prove that many of them can't.....These are the facts.... It's time that we put everything second to safety.... That includes standards for strength, cockpit layouts and helmet overhead clearances, canopies, 5 point harnesses..the works.... For 15 years no one... I repeat no one.. in a position of power has done that.... But "next year" was always gonna be the time to do it.

Well guess what... "next year" ended years ago....

As far as my missing a wave throttling, or cutting a turn too tight... it happens all the time...when I'm alone..... but never, ever with anyone that I am responsible for in the boat.... I don't push like that with passengers...except seasoned throttlemen.

Nobody is perfect... Lord knows I'm not... I just remember a lot of things that other people forget.

T2X,

You know, you old SOB, I'm reading this stuff, and I'm wondering what I do to help you. But heck, you don't need any. Everyone here has opinions, all supported by ones own history. And like all opinions, everyone is right in their own world. As with most things scientific and otherwise, it is the theory that determines what is observed.

For arguments sake, "Step bottoms lack turn stability". That theory is supported by recent accidents. In contrast we pose the position that "Step bottom are safe" and the theory is supported by zillions of hours of safe step bottom boating. Both theories are correct, both observations support the theory. Yet, people are hurt,, one side will observe, while the other will say: people are also not hurt.

Where's this going, as you know my Friend, I don't have the foggiest Both of us have been hurt in racing accidents, and we're still alive. We have Friends that were in similar accidents, and in many cases less serious, and yet they were killed. I doubt that any of us mortals can completely explain why some of us made it and some were taken??

Is it ego that brings about your observations? I don't think so. Knowing you for as long as I have, you have a genuine concern for people, the origins of that have to do with you're being a Loving Father. Now, you're still a schmuck T2x, but I've experienced the non schmuck side too )

What we do know is that folly is a human trait. Each left to their own accord will fine their own, trip over themselves, and learn.... maybe. Your interest I earnestly believe is to present your experiences and your personal concern for boaters.

To RW, and Ryan and all of the good folks that contribute to this string and the others, please keep on. We all get to decipher what we can, implement the good, ignore that with which we disagree, argue, and life goes on... for most....

Any of you that can make it to Fort Lauderdale this weekend, come on down. It's a bit rainy, but we've got a great race shaping up, and I'd be happy to provide Pit credentials to all of our OSO Friends.

Take care. I'm going to go out tomorrow and do something stupid in my step bottom Vee

T2x, the small boat you learned in? Did I build it? Ah, maybe I was after your time. Gotta agree with you though, the small boats are the best way to learn. Your reaction time has to be so much faster in counter steering a small vee bottom. When I stepped up to driving an offshore boat adjusting was needed because the boat didn't react as fast...

T2x, Steve David, Audacity, Ron P and all others with high speed boat and / or Racing experience - We Need Your Help!!!

The government is not going to do it, the boat or Marine manufacturers ( other than Scarab / Wellcraft ) are not going to do it. It canot be mandated and it cannot be controlled. Their will always be people who are too moronic to listen.

There are many on this board and others accross the country who want the thrills of high speed boating, are cognisciant of safety and well being of others and who are not afraid to ask questions and/or seek guidiance. Some of you are in possesion of vast knowledge and experience. Please share it with us. How do we drive our boats as safe as possible near their limits? What should the trim or tab settings be for various conditions, how can we trim our boats with throttles alone, should we twist our drives in corners, what are some hull reaction danger signs, what is bow steer - the list can be quite lenghtly. The effort of these posts will be worth it. Most of us will become more proficient operators and make this glorious sport safer and more enjoyable. Thanks in advance, Paul

T2x,Well you and I think very much alike. As you know my boat runs well over a hundred. Often I take my friends and family along for blasts in the bay. I too have developed several rules that I never ,never brake.
1. Everyone always in automatic life jackets
2. Never run WOT(or in my case anything close) even when challenged by a friend on board or another boat
3. Never out run the conditions of the water(either wave height , congestion or your local knowledge of the waterways )
4. Remember that the unexpected will happen again and again
5. Be the boy scout be prepared.
6. Listen to those who have both more experience than you and less experience than you. Take the advice of those with more experience!!!!
If I am going to run WOT I'LL do it at a Shootout or poker run at the proper time and place with the proper saftey people present and usually only with my friend Kurt sitting next to me(who has 20 years of offshore racing experience)on board.
I also think that you learn best from the close calls that you are in or that you wittness first hand(you know the time you come into turn one at 110 MPH and jerk the wheel instead of smooth slow and steady and the boat rolls up on it's side and drives that way for about 100 feet towards the spectator fleet that was placed too close to the course and some guy with a funny mustache in a helicopter makes some comments...)

I'm with Too Old. I've been boating since I could walk and always use common sense. I really don't want or need legislation passed which can dictate how or where I operate my boat simply because it is fast and there have been accidents in fast boats. There are accidents involving watercraft all the time and I don't want to be singled out. This is my passtime, my hobby, my way of "getting away from it all"...and mandating courses, licensing, etc, takes all the fun out of it. Hell, I might as well just take up golf...

The real problem which my friends and I can usually spot a mile away is the "more money than brains" phenomenon...having money and the knowledge it takes to earn that money, does not a smart boater make. It seems that boats(Sea Rays and Cigarettes) are considered status symbols and the bigger, the better.

The dealers should be more responsible when selling these products and not put them in incapable hands. More often than not, they simply want to make sure the check clears and don't really care what happens when that idiot is out on the water.

Just my rant...I'm done now...