Internet Fraud? Please Help
 

Here's The Deal, I Went From Las Vegas To So-cal To Look At A Boat Advertised Online. It Turned Out That The Guy {gary} Didn't Have The Title. He Said That He Still Owed Money On The Boat. He Advertised The Boat As A 2003 With 12hrs On The Meter. I Was Very Unsure About Buying The Boat With Him Not Having The Title In Hand, But He Assured Me That He Was Very Honest And That We Could Go To My Bank And Get A Cashiers Check For The Pay-off And A Seperate One For His Part. Also He Would Let Me Take The Boat. Well After I Came Home
A Couple Of Weeks Have Passed And No Title. He Refused To Return My Calls. Now The Deal Got Worse---- It's Not A 2003----it's A 2002!!!---- The Book Comes Up $6,615. Less. I Left Him A Message Stating That I Was Going To The F.b.i. And He Called Back Saying That He Thought That It Was A 2003 And That It Was An Honest Mistake But Also That He Wasn't Taking The Boat Back And Returning My Money. I Think That He Should Take The Boat Back, Or Pay Me The Differance In Value= $6,615. Seems My Only Option Is To Take Him To Court. What Would You Do? Who's Right And Who's Wrong In This Deal. The Way Isee It He's Holding My Money, And I'm Holding His Boat. Unless He Comes Up With 2003 Title We Have No Deal. Any So-cal Lawers Have Advise? Or Would Take This Case? Please Reply With Your Opinion. It's Guys Like This That Make It Hard To Sell Your Boat, More So If You Don't Have The Title. I Looked At A Lot Of Boats Where The Seller Did't Have The Title. Seems The Buyer Has To Take All The Risk

Re: Internet Fraud? Please Help
 

If you dont have the title its not your boat. I think you have an insurance problem here as well.
It sounds like he has your money and you have the "banks" boat, if he didnt pay off the loan or make the payment they are going to want it back.
Dont want to make you more nervous than you already are Im sure but you have yourself in a bit of a situation.

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Do you have a receipt/ Bill of Sale?
If you did this the right way, it should include the the make/model/year/ HIN.
I'm certainly no expert on this, but I would expect a signed document such as this would hold up in court.
If buying used, I always ask/demand one.
If selling, I draw one up myself. Sold our BMW on E-bay last fall, drew up a bill of sale for the 18 yr old kid to sign and date. Gave some piece-of-mind as to liabilty if he wrecked it, used it in a armed robbery, ran someone over...

Let the boat brokers and lawyers chime in.

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Thanks For The Reply, Lets Assume That He Does Pay Off The Boat---- What About It Not Being A 2003? Should That Kill The Deal? Should I Just Say Oh Well At Least I Got A 2002 ? Even Though It's Worth 6615 Less?

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It sounded like two checks were written, one to the bank for the payoff and one to the owner for the remainder. You can buy and sell vehicles without titles I have done it a few times. I always used a bill of sale though.

As far as suing him for $$$ because it's a 2002 that would be tough IMO, but I'm not a lawyer. But I can guarantee you the FBI could care less. I would think that cavaet emptor would come into play here.

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Yes I Have A Bill Of Sell, Says Sold A 2003 Not A 2002 Signed Buy Gary Ledger Of Gl Construction In So-cal

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I would check into the payoff situation 1st, then deal with the price difference.

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Did you pay less than the 2002 book value?

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Yes Two Checks , One To Key Bank And One To Gary Ledger.

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No I Paid More Than The 2003 Book Value

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Was the check made out to the bank for the payoff? At least he won't be able to cash the big one....
How Do You Type With A Cap At The Beginning Of Every Letter?

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I THINK THE BOAT WAS PAID OFF

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HE GOT THE BIGGER CHECK, JUST KEEP YOUR CAPS LOCK ON

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Are boats like cars, a 2003 model, but built in 2002, thus a 2002 title? I don't know. Caps.....hard to read.

Good luck

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THE THOUGHT OF STAMPING LICENCE PLATES, SHARING A ROOM WITH BIG BUBBA WHILE SOME PUNK IS TAPPING MY WIFE AND MY BANK ACC. MAKES ME NERVOUS

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I Would Call Key Bank ASAP

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Get's kinda sticky right around here.
You DID agree to buy the boat, and you didn't do your homework, sorry if that stings a little.
You have a legitimate B!tch that the boat is a year older, But, if it were me (I would have done my homework...) I just go out and enjoy my new boat.
Your never gonna make any money on a boat as an "Investment".

Make sure you get the title in hand (this may take a few weeks in some states), and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

Go enjoy your boat.

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real easy last two numbers of the HIN # are the yr

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Cars built after i think july become 2007s same with boats. this perticular boat was built in 2001

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Yeah, I kinda thought that was a no-brainer, but he may be new to boats.

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Yes, I know that. Just was curious if boats (high production makes I would guess) are like cars, as far as getting a new car, a yr ahead of it's yr.


2001....that throws a wrench in the deal!

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I had a simular situation where i was on the other end. i sold a numbers matching vette. when the new owner got home he finds out that new numbers were stamped on the block. i didn't know or do it, so i said return it and i would refund his money and resale it as non numbers match car. he didn't want to return the vette so we agreed on an amount that it was devalued and i gave him a refund

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I meant "SHESAIDSO", not you.

New guy on the board - note, first post.

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My point exactly.
That makes you a "Stand-Up Guy".
There's not alot of us out there. :D

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the other thing was the swim step was covering up the h. i. n. what my usal proceedure is i look at the car / boat first next the paper work. i check the v i n to match the title and make sure it hasn't been signed in the wrong spot. if he would have had the title i would have seen that it was a 2002 and i would not of bought the boat. i was paying too much for a 2003!

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First problem is
Second problem is
Enjoy the boat while you can, you may even own it!

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i have never ever sold any thing that i wouldn't unwind the deal the next day, i have had people complain about stuff and i allways say " if you are not happy bring it back and i'll give your money back" if you have to lie to sell it then you are a crook! if you make a mistake in the discription you should unwind the deal if the buyer requests. or make a consession your choice

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welcome to the world of used boats. Its always BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doesn't matter who the seller is or what he says or claims. PERIOD

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BINGO

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I buy and sell stuff all the time and I would make fun of you for not having a HIN ledgeble and no title...Hell that would be stupid and no excuse BUT when I bought my last boat it took me two(2) days to figure out that the seller(bob) and the title owner(not bob) where two different people.. :eek: :eek:

I had the boat and a signed title BUT who signed it and who the F is Not Bob?

It was all fine but in the rush of doing a deal and getting rid of my old boat I had failed to realize he(Bob) had jumped the title on the boat I just bought...He did it again when he sold my former boat 4 days later for a pontoon he needed....I did have a Bill-of-sale and many witness's and property...just floored myself that I missed such a HUGE detail!! :(

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I agree with you 100% - that's what I meant about being a stand-up guy.
When I sold the BMW, and people inquired to the condition (1998), I took photos of every ding, scratch, interior imperfection and e-mailed the photos. I never tried to deceive the bidder.
I mentioned in the original add that it wasn't showroom, and if interested, I'll send more details.
Did it the same way when I sold my Harley.

I don't know why you would purchase the boat (sounds like a significant purchase if the difference of 1 year of make is a $6000+ difference) without surveying, or checking the HIN.
I understand, might have been excited and just dropped the coin, but you had plenty of time to research.
I'm working on a boat deal right now, and the dealer didn't even know the maker - within 15 mins of research I knew the true maker, and within 1-2 days (through the use of a few boat boards - started right here on OSO) I have a phone number for the original owner (thanks everyone for your help :D).
Sorry, but I still say - lesson learned.
Not everyone out there is honest, and let it be a lesson.
Years ago, I built a house for a "friend" - wound up getting soaked for 50K, caused a divorce, loss of house, loss of boat, loss of truck.
But that's a whole 'nother fiasco.
I reiterate - lesson learned.
Good Luck, and, quitcherb!tchen and enjoy your boat. - and make sure you get that Title!!!!

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I feel your pain, I know you don't want to hear this but this scenario comes up about once a week here. A guy doesn't get a survey, does his reasearch afterthe sale and discovers problems. At this point you'll be lucky to get the title at all, the year being off is the least of your problems. If this guy actually comes up with the title, count your blessings and enjoy the boat.

ATTENTION ALL PROSPECTIVE BUYERS !!: GET A SURVEY

Just for the record I'm not a marine surveyor

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I still think i have a legal and moral case . most all boats devalue at 8 -10 percent a year. when looking for a new boat thats what i wanted----a new boat! but if you have a 03 with 12 hrs , the boat looks the same as new, the price thousands less! sure i'm interested, anyway if i sold you a 2003 boat, when i provided the docks [title] and it was not a 2003 i would have to refund your money, right? then if your were still interested we would have to renegotiat the deal. i couldn't force you to buy the boat the problem here was he couldn't pay off the boat unless i gave him the money

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Wow That Is Hard To Read....And Hard To Type Every Word With A Capitol Letter. Why Do Some People Do That? I've Seen It Before?

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Dunno..... NORTY!!!!! Who types all in caps? A POODLE?..... :D

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Dude,
I'm not defending the putz that sold you this boat but you are missing the point. There is no "moral police", no "moral court".
The real courts suck as it is. A little homework on your part and you could have avoided this whole thing.Those hour meters may be the only thing on the boat with 12 hours on them. The engines may not be original. You might never see your seller, or your title, again.

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Either crazy or trying to look :cool: :rolleyes:

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If the guy has a legit business I would run a D&B to help settle my nerves while all this is being straightened out.

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I'm looking for a riverside cal. lawer to take this case

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Does this post have anything to do with anything?