Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

I thought IMHO was " In my HUMBLE opinion"
Honestly :D :D

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Yes he does own the name

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

It's time that everyone faced the facts. Apache is gone and isn't ever coming back. Everyone knows the story.

Those glorious days were but fleeting. If you were so unfortunate to have missed them, you can only hope to relive the glory through the stories of those that were there.

Thank God there are but a few of these living dinosaurs still roaming the earth to exhibit the greatness that was.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Apache is not gone.........it just a little different today....Chief..... and this one is for sale...http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/6/5/84615265.htm

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

you're correct Apache is not gone, but that boat isnt Apache, it may have some heritage...But the only Apache available today is through McManus..facts is facts.
You couldnt be further from Wrong if you tried, back "then" as you say Apaches were the most expensive and the best around, the models floating now still are. Call Mark at Apache if you want one built and have at it. But dont bash them all for your shortsightedness. think about the all silver tsunami...quite the wave crusher:D

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

http://www.mitchertcustompainting.com/
painted the 41 Chief pictured and linked for sale.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

yup, you are correct again, dont compare a 90 yard dash to a 100 yard dash. the boats in 84 were competitive all season. you said so yourself.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

The quote was
"new vettes and mustangs are for sissys" it was in "jest" because I knew he was joking, some here are having a hard time with that for some reason.
So I pointed out new cars are faster nothing more. Considering I rebuild and restored 442's, Big block mustangs etc. I think I know all about "old school" cars.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

I disagree. I use to watch Apache wipe the floor with the competition. Apache did it then and another boat builder would do it again. Racing is racing.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

It's tough for me to swallow- calling anything with steps on it the heir to Apache.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

So if they run the Baja 500 on the Indy 500 course next year and I won, I'd likely also hold the all-time top speed average for the race?

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

First of all, since I've owned 3 of them, I'd hardly call myself an Apache basher.

Mark is a nice guy and a very competent boatbuilder but again, we all know the story behind how he ended up owning the name. I don't recall ever seeing him in the cockpit or ever mentioned anywhere in any article, interview or elsewhere. And, to his credit, I don't believe he's ever claimed otherwise. Sure the silver boat is very nice and it does share a lineage with Apache. Bobby is substantially closer to the direct lineage of Apache but what he's doing isn't what Apache did in the early 80's. How many Chiefs are there now? One? Two? And steps? I understand he needs to earn a living and lots of people want steps but it's pretty contrary to the original spirit of Apache.

You miss the point of my post- what was Apache happened once and that era passed. They were a one-of-a-kind in an exciting era of offshore powerboating and they built a boat that was a quantum leap forward. They out-performed and out-classed everything ever made. They also struck on the magic combination of design, dimension,mass and construction that made the Apache the best, most durable rough-water boat ever built. There wasn't anything like them back then- there was only one "best" and it was Apache. I could name at least 6 or 7 builders today that could be argued to build the best boat. And, they're building them in some sort of regularity.

If Ben & Bobby & the rest of the Apache crew were 25 years younger and built the boats today, they'd be hard-pressed to make a ripple.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Thanks...That "Red Dragon" Spectre is amazing.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Man this thread is sorta heading down hill.. Sooo

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Yup, it was a joke, comradery, ribbing, having fun! :D

We all buy boats for different reasons but that doesn't make everyone else wrong. I hate narrow minded individuals. :p

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

This 2006 Saber was built from the original Apache mold without steps. This might be considered pretty close to the original Apache's except it ran 108 with 1075 Merc's. The Chief is a nice boat but other than Bobby driving it around what does it have to do with Apache? It's not an Apache hull, it wasn't built by anyone connected to Apache, now or then, it has steps and it's 42 feet long. Does an Outerlimits become a Hustler cause Paul Fiore drives one around?
NK

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Nope but the OL and Hustler are distant relatives of the Magnum! ;)

I think 108 with 1075's is quite impressive for a non-step boat with old school technology! :cool: Does the boat have a cabin?

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

[QUOTE=Chris Sunkin]You miss the point of my post- what was Apache happened once and that era passed. They were a one-of-a-kind in an exciting era of offshore powerboating and they built a boat that was a quantum leap forward. They out-performed and out-classed everything ever made. They also struck on the magic combination of design, dimension,mass and construction that made the Apache the best, most durable rough-water boat ever built. There wasn't anything like them back then- there was only one "best" and it was Apache./QUOTE]

Not to start an arguement but,,,,,,,,,,, stating that this was a one-of-a-kind, quantum leap, outclassing everything else boat is a bit of a stretch.

Now, as I agreed above, Apaches were cool and impressive. But, remember where the hull came from in the first place. It came from across the road at Cig. The Apache hull was by no means "revolutionary". Built tough? Yup. Rigged tough? Yup. Driven hard? Yup. Original and groundbreaking? Nope.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

No you are correct .. however noone is so closely connected with the history of the brand ..Did the rightful heir to the Apache name end up with it after all the legal bs .. IMHO NO!
Bob and Ben are the ones that brought the name to the forefront all those years ago..
Saber, McManus, Chief all build very nice boats

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Just out of curiosity why did'nt Bob try to take control of Benny's side of Apache when he "went away "

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

I love that video and take it for what it is.

For all of the others bashing and stating the new boats with better technology are far superior boats, please post some videos of them running 80-90 mph in 6 to 8 footers. I'd love to see them.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

"Revolutionary" is your word- not mine. I'll go for "evolutionary". Of course the Apache and everything else shares it's heritage with the early Cigarettes. What I was trying to get across is that the 41 Apache was the evolution- it just so happened that the 41 was a great deal more capable than the 38 Cig of the time. If you recall, the 38 Cig was the gold standard in offshore boats. But, it was a production boat. The Apache was intended to be a step up in every respect possible. It was geared towards the guy who had a full-blown Cig but wanted to move up and had the $$. The first one I ever saw was the one Jim Dyke had (I think it was Miller's boat) He had it at the Cleveland boat show. You could barely get to it from the crowd around it- it was an incredible buzz.

I remember talking to Bobby about getting the deck cleats from Italy and what a hassle it was- it was just one of those over-the-top details. That was everywhere on the boat. Today, that stuff is commonplace. Back then, there was only one.

As far as a quantum leap- the Apache changed the face of offshore racing- we're still talking about it today, 23 years later. What other boat from that era or any other can you say that about? If the course was rough and you didn't have an Apache, your chances were substantially less. Some of the old boats are still racing and performing well. Almost all of the original Apache raceboats are still out there and running. I don't believe an Apache has ever been lost due to operational failures of the hull. What other boat can you say that about?

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

There is the damn truth if I ever read it. We got all kinds of guy's building boats with more steps then I have going to my front door. Baking Epoxy boats like the Keebler Elves. Cat guy's tweeking the hull so it goes 200 mph on Lake Lackanookie. One egomaniac builder spray painting his bald head with Phantom Black paint. And when all is said and done, there is Apache still running 6 to 8 foot seas at 90 plus. Alone.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

The End................. :D

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

"The new 42' Double Stepped Warrior is a project that I started in 1999. What I originally set out to do was improve the performance of a World Champion hull design that I throttled to its first World Championship in 1984, after founding Apache powerboats. This original proven V design has gone on to win many victories, World Titles in the United States and abroad for many years after. By being open minded to all the new technology and material that was available, I felt that I could make a few performance improvements using some of today's technology, thus bringing this design to a whole new level. Working and testing hands on, I earned a good education on what worked and what did not..."

Sounds like the Apache 41 has alot to do with Chief boats and apache still lives on~

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

More good reading for you

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/redir?s...ckedItemPage=1

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Man your all over the place :rolleyes:

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

I think what he's trying to say is...Who cares about all the other B.S. Apache's were and ARE the king of rough water.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

And you can look at it this way....If Ben wasn't such a scum bag there would've never been any issues with other builders of "Apache's". I'm sure to this day they'd still be running strong with out all the drama. Too bad one person had to go and f*ck up greatness in such an irreversible way.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

To say that the New stepped chief isnt "real tech" is a bit over the top. Im sure it does just fine in the big stuff escpecially with Bob at the sticks..
Mcmanus may own the name but Bob Saccenti was the one who made the name what it is .
Yes it is unfortunate about all thats happened over the years but Its also part of the mystique

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Here is some more Mystique

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...wpost&t=136202

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

I know what your trying to say " I think" but I believe that was all taken care of .. and the customer is happy
So quit beating around the bush and say whats on your mind ...

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Apache...The finest rough water Offshore Powerboat to date.
Owned and built by McManus.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

C'mon we all know Thad A almost built the best apache ever ????? :chimp:

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Does anyone know what happened to Thad's project? I know they had molds made- anything ever come out of them?

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

The Crusher

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Too bad .. it was looking to be sweet ..and straight

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

Any reasoning behind that? He obviously dumped a bunch of $$ into the project- there had to be someone interested in buying what was there.

On the other hand, this is the same guy who ended up buying his own Lamborghini TWICE. Once from the dealer, once from the state.

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

I forget what the reasoning was, probably legal. Nor am I sure they were actualy destroyed

Re: Apache I Am Sold
 

That all had to do with the final courts decision on who owned the Apache name. McManus won. There was a thread on here a while back (when the litigation was on-going) about it.