100-Plus

Cosmic,

That is not what I said at all. Some boats can cruise safely at 120 mph depending on conditions and, most important during a poker run, separation between boats. As boat speeds increase, separation between boats becomes more and more important.

But yes, I do agree with you that the speeds some of our boats are capabable of running are not conducive to running in a pack, which can be difficult to avoid during a poker run. Not impossible, mind you, difficult. I don't know if this is a popular sentiment and I don't much care, but I do think speed limits at poker runs are a good idea. A very good idea. And a lot of organizers seems to agree, as I think you, who no longer attend poker runs because to the speeds involved, so as well.

So is 100-mph too fast for poker runs? In my opinion, and I know people will hate me for this, yes.

My point was that reaching a card stop "first" does not necessarily mean the driver of that particular boat was racing.

As for "taking your chances on a sunpad," I can only hope you were trying to make a point. Because even on a 40-mph runabout, that's about as dangerous as it gets.

Jassman

I totally agree Will..... Dave, I would think if you are interested in safety for your PR's, it makes sense to try and slow the poker run speeds down, somewhat. The only reason you buy a fast boat, IS TO PROVE A POINT. I feel If you want to go fast, go to the LOTO shootout, or where other boaters are not right around you, especially on a PR. It has gotten way out of hand. Limit the speeds, say 95 for V's and 125 for cat's. Still fun but not trying to out do each other to the next stop.
I also noticed you picked on the Tic Fa run, (great run btw, you east coast guys should attend some time, might be a little culture shock, but I gaurentee you'll have one hell of a time), I just spent 2 hours on Stu's site FLPC, and noticed people basically doing the same thing, women laying on sunpads while jumping a 4' waves, drivers with beers in hand and so on, but basically many doing the same as you pointed out. Having fun but dangerous in some respect. All PR's use to be alot more fun, speeds have climbed, too many accidents, many with alcohol related accidents as well. Dont get me wrong I enjoy a cold one or two when driving, but that is it, unless parked and not going back out, at least I will admit it. Which brings me to my last point. Many on this board attended the KW PR. It was stated PFD's were optional, and DRIVERS please dont drink until you get to your destination. How many people did just that. I observed something totally different. Jeff

100-Plus

Jeff,

Agreed. Read my last post. My primary point was that just because a boat gets to a stop first doesn't mean it was "racing."

And Dave has actually initiated speed limits, plus off-weekend dates, for his runs. He's on it.

DaveP

Already have - you missed that post from a few weeks ago

Not picking on them - just pointed out pictures from their website

Stu has changed his way of thinking this year since he attended the Safety meetings back in February in Miami. So has Billy Frenz who adamently refused to make people wear life jackets.

Jeff I was there too - Stu's attitude toward Life Jackets and No Alcohol changed 100% this year after the Lake Texoma tragedy. There were more people wearing life jackets than not and at Gilberts there were more Captains not drinking than were. Was it perfect? no but at least Stu has appointed Brad as his safety officer and they are making huge strides.

I have been on a few of Stu's runs before and several of them were FREE FOR ALLS!

I sorry that you feel that poker runs are not as much fun anymore but as safety rules get tighter those that don't want to abide by them will fade away from the poker run scene ...........which is a good thing.

Jassman

You and I were typing appr. at the same time. My neighbor came to the door and asked if I could get his boat on his trailer before I sent my post off. I did read your post, and agree somewhat, that not all people that go to PR's race to the card stops. My point was, and still is, you don't buy a 150 mph boat to go on a PR to just do a leisurely slow 100-120 mph, for the heck of it. A lot of these cat's start to feel good around 100-110 mph. There will always be the taunting or the back and forth, or at lunch time when everyone is present and having a few beers, and the testosterone starts flowing, You know exactly what happens next. I don't need to tell you the reason big hp goes in these boats, bragging rights and so on. I've got no problem with that, it's their choice, just that there is a place and a time for everything, and a PR is not a good exercise when we are all bunched up. Why not be 300'-400' away from someone if you want to do over 125mph, you've got to start somewhere. I'm not here to argue with anyone, I believe in safety, rules need to be enforced by the promoter, with zero tolerance's. Thanks Jeff

Jassman

I sorry that you feel that poker runs are not as much fun anymore but as safety rules get tighter those that don't want to abide by them will fade away from the poker run scene ...........which is a good thing.[/QUOTE]


Dave thanks for doing your part as a promoter. What are the speeds on your PR, and how are you able to enforce them. Thanks Jeff

DaveP

Where we start out of is a very narrow body of water called "Toms River." The who time we navigate this body of water we have used 6 pace boats (2 per group). This year we will use 8 (this year we are starting a 45mph class for smaller / slower boats) We also have the State Police accompany use while we are in the Toms River.

This year we have instituted a self imposed 80mph MAX speed on all inland waterways for our poker run participants. All of our pace boats in the faster classes will be able to run at least 80mph. Anyone who passes the pace boats while in the bays will: 1) lose their hands and get a warning. 2) 2nd offense tossed out of the club.

Since we started 9 years ago we have bounced 6 members in total. Fortunately we have not bounced any in the last 3 years. We have a reputation for no nonsense. We also have 12 NJPPC Planning Committee member's boats in almost all of our events. This way we have several dozens of eyes watching everyone.

One gentleman this year jumped in on one of our events for no other reason than just "checking us out". I took down his reg numbers at the first card stop - called him over and asked him to please not run with us. A month later he joined the club and participated in our video shoot. GREAT GUY! The fuinning thing is that when I first met him he referred to himself as the guy I "scolded". Again - he is a great guy.

As for people who we have bounced: 2 for drinking on a poker run, 1 for blowing through a bridge after a poker run, 1 for jumping into a radar shootout without registering, 1 for being a nasty drunk and wanting to fight everyone and the other???????? I can't remember???

Mike Fiore, Skip Braver, Steve Stepp, Baja Factory Team, Bill Tweedie from MYCO, Powerboat Magazine and a few others have all attended one or several of our events. All of them have walked away that we are one of the most strict organizartions around but at the same time very friendly and helpful.

We don't try to be pricks - we just don't want to see anyone get hurt.

When the day is over - I will challenge anyone drink for drink at the bar

I'm also not a hypocrite - no matter if it is NJPPC or I attend another poker run event I always wear my lifejacket and drink water until the event is over.

Hopefully some day you can make the trip north and check us out - we would love to have you join us.

DaveP

I forgot to mention all 4 classes that we offer:

1) "Offshore Group" - larger boats with big power. Part of the course will be offshore in the Atlantic Ocean
2) "Inshore Group" - larger boats and smaller boats that want to cruise arond 75mph and not be subjected to the ocean
3) 60mph Group - Center Consoles, larger boats and smaller boats that want to cruise at a max of 60mph and not be subjected to the ocean
4) 45mph Group - NEW FOR THIS YEAR focused on smaller single engine and twin engine boats that never participated before because they felt that their boat is too small or slow.

100-Plus

Jass,

We agree. And I think under Dave's new rules, you can run as fast as you want outside.

One thing worth considering: When Dave Callan and John Cosker go for big speeds (beyond the Loto event), they do it on weekdays and stay far, far away from everyone. Same goes for guys like John Tomlinson and Teague. So maybe the time to push for the big number is when we are far away from other boats. Not much for feeding the ego, but a heckuva lot safer. And maybe poker runs are becoming more like rallys. Maybe it's just evolution.

We all know what happens to creatures that fail to evolve. Great talking with you ... all of you.

cuda

I wished that the poker runs we used to run in required PFD's, so I wouldn't have to be the prick, but riding with me anytime above idle speed, I require everyone on board to wear a lifejacket. It is non negotiable. Either wear it, or stay on the dock, it's their choice. Luckily, everyone that boats with me know it ahead of time. The only one I have to argue with is Debbie, and I've never lost an argument to her yet. As far as drinking and driving, our club was pretty strict about the captains drinking, and I don't recall having any problems with it. I think when we ran in this run, there were about 60 or so boats, and I think only two other boats in it that everyone was wearing life jackets. Sometimes, there would be one or two wearing them. As far as excessive speed, our club was pretty good about that too. In the bays and intercostal, people tended to run pretty conservatively, and if they wanted to open it up against each other, they would wait until we got in the gulf, then pulled off away from the pack to do it. I think our club was pretty well run from the safety aspect, except I wish they required pfds. I miss running with them since we moved. Also, I still always wear my kill switch running above idle speed. I had a good friend of mine get killed a couple years ago, due to no kill switch, and he was only running about 35 mph.