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Loto snow damage.

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Old 12-05-2006, 01:02 AM
  #131
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Default Re: Loto snow damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reed Jensen
Don't they have building codes in Misouri and the plain states?... Why is it everytime a little tornado comes along all the mobile homes blow away?.... Why don't they outlaw buildings in these areas?... Aren't there building codes in your state that can keep a house from blowing away?.....
"a little tornado" .........thats almost funny. Maybe you should realize what a tornado actually is before you make a post this utterly ridiculous. The force of a tornado can lift a car or boat and carry it for blocks or even miles.

Outlaw buildings in these areas?????? where???? in 4 states

Besides, I highly doubt that the dollars in damage even closely compares to the damage of a little hurricane or little earthquake or California wildfire. Not to mention, I highly doubt that the Federal gov't is going to step in and throw billion$$ at the problem at LOTO. I'm sure there are plenty of ways the damage at LOTO could have been prevented, but not necessarily cost effective ways. All each marina would need is a big pump and a tank of liquid deicer or for that matter, a small fire boat with a high pressure pump.

LOTO will easily recover from the damage. Unfortunately it will be through higher prices on slip rentals and higher insurance rates. These rates are and will still be very low compared to coastal states. This was a freak ice and snow storm. Even the time frame the storm hit probably played a major factor. With the ice early in the am and people most likely could not get to work. By the time people could get to work, if they could get to work, it was too late and too dangerous. The amount of ice and snow that fell is probably close to what they normally get over half the winter.

Last edited by Griff; 12-05-2006 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 12-05-2006, 01:40 AM
  #132
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Default Re: Loto snow damage.

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Originally Posted by Griff
"a little tornado" .........thats almost funny. Maybe you should realize what a tornado actually is before you make a post this utterly ridiculous. The force of a tornado can lift a car or boat and carry it for blocks or even miles.

Outlaw buildings in these areas?????? where???? in 4 states

Besides, I highly doubt that the dollars in damage even closely compares to the damage of a little hurricane or little earthquake or California wildfire. Not to mention, I highly doubt that the Federal gov't is going to step in and throw billion$$ at the problem at LOTO. I'm sure there are plenty of ways the damage at LOTO could have been prevented, but not necessarily cost effective ways. All each marina would need is a big pump and a tank of liquid deicer or for that matter, a small fire boat with a high pressure pump.

LOTO will easily recover from the damage. Unfortunately it will be through higher prices on slip rentals and higher insurance rates. These rates are and will still be very low compared to coastal states. This was a freak ice and snow storm. Even the time frame the storm hit probably played a major factor. With the ice early in the am and people most likely could not get to work. By the time people could get to work, if they could get to work, it was too late and too dangerous. The amount of ice and snow that fell is probably close to what they normally get over half the winter.
I was trying to be funny.... I guess sarcasm doesn't always translate in print. ............
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Old 12-05-2006, 07:59 AM
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Default Re: Loto snow damage.

There are standards which new boat docks must now meet:
http://www.ameren.com/Environment/AD...Guidelines.asp

Unfortunately many of the docks were older and some even had white foam so I am sure many would not have met todays standards BUT there were also brand spanking new boat docks that had problems.
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: Loto snow damage.

Geee Nort, you figured it out. This happens every year and we rebuild the docks with breadsticks and toothpicks.
If you look at the pics, a lot of docks are so weighted down, that they're sinking. If they're sinking at an angle or they start to flip, there is not much that's going to keep them from collapsing. 3" of ice and 12" of snow is just really heavy.
Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomChaos
I just don't get this whole problem. This isn't some 3rd world country or something (well....it is LOTO). Are there no building codes in LOTO? I'm shocked that this just seems "normal" to happen if it snows too much. I don't think ANY of this should happen! IT IS A DEFECT SOMEWHERE!
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:32 AM
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Default Re: Loto snow damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reed Jensen
Don't they have building codes in Misouri and the plain states?... Why is it everytime a little tornado comes along all the mobile homes blow away?.... Why don't they outlaw buildings in these areas?... Aren't there building codes in your state that can keep a house from blowing away?.....
I guess they should stop building in Florida and other coastal regions since the building codes won't keep a house from blowing away in a hurricane.

Why can't you understand this was a freak weather incident. It does not happen every year. They got as much snow in a day as they usually do in a year.

I am sure they will be rebuilt better but would you build a dock in Florida to withstand holding 12" of snow with a 4" ice base? I didn't think so. Why not, because it has never happened there before. Once it happens once, then the building codes change.
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Old 12-05-2006, 10:35 AM
  #136
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Default Re: Loto snow damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomChaos
I just don't get this whole problem. This isn't some 3rd world country or something (well....it is LOTO). Are there no building codes in LOTO? I'm shocked that this just seems "normal" to happen if it snows too much. I don't think ANY of this should happen! IT IS A DEFECT SOMEWHERE!

You are right, and a house shouldn't fall down in a 10.0 earthquake. No damage should come from a cat 5 hurricane. An F5 tornadao shouldn't do more than than blow some leaves out of a tree.

Get into reality. Mother nature is a strong force that you can not plan for.
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Loto snow damage.

Wow

We aren't ready for these freak snowstorms! That pic reminds me of the one we had in Buffalo a few weeks ago.
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Loto snow damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry summers
There are standards which new boat docks must now meet:
http://www.ameren.com/Environment/AD...Guidelines.asp

Unfortunately many of the docks were older and some even had white foam so I am sure many would not have met todays standards BUT there were also brand spanking new boat docks that had problems.
TERRY, I HEARD THAT A LOT OF THE DOWN DOCKS ARE BRAND NEW AND ONE MARINA OWNER IN PARTICULAR SAID HIS DEDUCTIBLE FOR THE NEW DOCKS IS 25K. FOR THOSE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE PRICING OF THE DOCKS, THIS PARTICULAR OWNER TOLD ME LAST YEAR THAT HIS NEW DOCK SYSTEMS COST RIGHT AT $1 MILLION FOR APPROX. 3 SEPARATE DOCKS. THIS WAS TO MEET THE NEW CODES BEING ENFORCED DOWN THERE TO BE ENCAPSULATED AND TO SIMPLY UPGRADE THEIR APPEARANCE. SADLY ENOUGH, A LOT OF THE MARINAS THAT ARE DAMAGED HAD TO GO TO BIGGER DOCKS, LARGER AND WIDER SLIPS, LESS PITCH TO THE ROOFS, ETC. IN ORDER TO ACCOMODATE THE VAST NUMBER OF BIGGER BOATS AT THE LAKE. THE COSTS FOR THESE DOCKS ARE OUT OF CONTROL AS IT IS, LET ALONE WHEN YOU DO THE RIGHT THING AND ADD EXTRA CROSSBEAM REINFORCEMENTS AND LARGER PITCHED ROOFS. IT WAS A FREAK THING, BUT I AGREE THAT MORE COULD HAVE BEEN DONE WHEN SOME OF THE COLLAPSING WAS DETECTED IN SOME CASES.
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: Loto snow damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea-Dated
I guess they should stop building in Florida and other coastal regions since the building codes won't keep a house from blowing away in a hurricane.

Why can't you understand this was a freak weather incident. It does not happen every year. They got as much snow in a day as they usually do in a year.

I am sure they will be rebuilt better but would you build a dock in Florida to withstand holding 12" of snow with a 4" ice base? I didn't think so. Why not, because it has never happened there before. Once it happens once, then the building codes change.
Damn.... lighten up guys.... I was being sarcastic.... Why do you think I made such a rediculous statement such as " They shouldn't build in areas where there are tornados. ".. You guys were talking about "we Californians" should not have houses slide off hillsides, ( an act of nature )... well.... you guys shouldn't have ice storms that sink docks and canopies...
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: Loto snow damage.

The storm blew in from the west and caused significant drifting on the east side of the docks creating an uneven distribution of the weight. The majority of the problems are on the large docks like Arrowhead that have relatively flat roofs, 18' wide by 50' deep slips, one after another with only a 4' wide finger in between. There is simply not enough flotation in proportiopn to the roof area to hold up the weight so the finger begins to sink. Again with one side heavier than the other from the drifting the dock is trying to flip over, thus the stress at the base of the columns and ultimately failure. Similar to a sinking ship breaking in half. Many of the marinas, Arrowhead included, remove the concrete walk pads from the fingers to lighten the weight at the ends. Obviously this didn't suffice this time. This snow was very wet and heavy and when coupled with the ice was simply too much. Keep in mind that the constant wave action takes it's toll on the bigger docks as they are flexing which over time weakens the structure.

That said, they could design the dock structures to be stronger with upsizing of the structure and additonal lateral bracing, it just cost more.
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