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Gas or diesel generator
What are the pro's and con's between the two. We do over night, and have always had diesel, but are worried about the Carbon Minoxide. Have the gas gotten better. Thanks Jeff
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Jeff, the new kohlers are very safe, stay with the same fuel source as the boat engines, the exhaust discharge on the nortech's are under the transom . would still have sensors in both cabin and engine compartment . I believe kohler has an auto shutoff c02 sensor available, like the overheat/oil low shutoff sensor. Sold my 50v so I'm looking at going back to a cat, still love the nortech 36, maybe the new extended roadster model. jim
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I've got a Westerbeke 3 KW. It's gas and only weighs 165 lbs.
I think the builder is required to install a carbon monoxide detector with a gas generator. |
I owned for 6 years a sea ray 380ss and used the gas gen more than the engines. it was a 8kw westerbeke and never gave me a problem. Just changed the oil twice a year and kept on enjoying the air conditioning up at havasu
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Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2347992)
Dont mix your engine room. Gasoline engines are built to coast guard spec. To prevent ignition of gasoline vapors. Diesels are not. Put a diesel genset in a gasoline boat or a gasoline genset in a diesel boat the boat go BOOM!!!:eek:
I ended up putting a diesel Mase genset in my gas boat, just like my last 5 boats...and im still around.:D |
Originally Posted by Jassman
(Post 2348015)
I ended up putting a diesel Mase genset in my gas boat, just like my last 5 boats...and im still around.:D
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Originally Posted by docmanrich37
(Post 2348025)
But thats only because Sandy says your worth more alive.:D
Hey baby, aint that the truth, see ya in a few days:D Sandy |
Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2348342)
The facts are the facts. A hazard exists thats why the Coast Guard has all the extra safety regulations for gasoline engines but not for diesels. The odds are 5 to 1 in your favor playing Russian Roulet but I bet you ain't taking a little spin at the cylinders any time soon. :evilb:
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Originally Posted by Jassman
(Post 2190705)
What are the pro's and con's between the two. We do over night, and have always had diesel, but are worried about the Carbon Minoxide. Have the gas gotten better. Thanks Jeff
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Originally Posted by Wobble
(Post 2348487)
Carbon Monoxide (CO gas) issue will be the same whether you go gas or diesel. As mentioned elsewhere, redundant CO detectors are the way to go.
What does having two types of fuels, in seperate tanks, in totally different locations on your boat make it more combustable, especially when diesel is not combustable...someone explain that to me. Thanks Jeff |
Just curious Jeff . Do you and Sandy go to sleep with the Genny running ? I'm thinking if you wake up and need to run the air why cant you run the blower first ? Personally I like the idea of a Diesel Generator . Diesel boat too , but I understand your need for speed .
Paul |
Originally Posted by 1bagger
(Post 2348718)
Just curious Jeff . Do you and Sandy go to sleep with the Genny running ? I'm thinking if you wake up and need to run the air why cant you run the blower first ? Personally I like the idea of a Diesel Generator . Diesel boat too , but I understand your need for speed .
Paul Yes, we have. sometimes it was cool enough in the evening that at 1 or 2 am I shut it off and with the cover on and door closed it actually stayed comfortable. |
Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2348342)
The facts are the facts. A hazard exists thats why the Coast Guard has all the extra safety regulations for gasoline engines but not for diesels.
My choice would be the diesel, if nothing else, for efficiency, and the lack of another source for a possible spark ignition in the engine compartment. :) |
Originally Posted by Wobble
(Post 2348487)
Carbon Monoxide (CO gas) issue will be the same whether you go gas or diesel. As mentioned elsewhere, redundant CO detectors are the way to go.
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A diesel generator is more expensive initially, but cheaper to run. The danger of CO is prevalent with ANY combustion of a carbon/petroleum based fuel. Please don't EVER roll the dice and not have a reliable detector in your sleeping quarters. The stakes are too high.
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This is all I need to quote as the more you're typing, the less sense you're making.
Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2349140)
The diesel genset is not protected like the gasoline genset.
Are you just making this stuff up now? :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2349290)
If they are brushless type they will be the same. If they are brush type there will be spark arrestor screens over all the cooling openings.Besides it's not just the backend! The starter and the alternator on the diesel engine are not protected like the ones on a gasoline engine. Equipment designed for operation in a gasoline enviroment and a diesel enviroment are built to different Coast Guard specs. Also just because stuff looks IDENTICAL doesn't mean it is! Take for instance the starter on GM engines. The automotive starter and the marine starter look IDENTICAL but they are not. If you tear both down you will find one extra flat washer in the marine one. That one extra washer makes it explosion proof. Alternators? those are easy. The ones designed for a gasoline enviroment have spark arresting screens over any cooling openings. The ones used on diesels don't. Whats up with this crowd? The CFRs covering this are written in 6th grade English. Some one makes a statement that is a fact backed up with Government Regulations and still the ignorant drive byes attack tooth and nail! Just because you tempt fate and win doesn't make what you're doing safe or correct. Also there is the insult to injury. God forbid you go ahead and keep breaking the safety rules and have an engine compartment fire. When its all over and the surveyor investigates for your insurance company and he finds unprotected equipment in your engine room. Insurance Coverage? What Insurance Coverage? You ain't got no stinking Insurance Coverage. Wise up quit arguing whats wrong is right just because it hasn't blown up in your face YET! :hitfan:
What do you do for a living. |
Jeff, I think your main concern is whether or not you will have enough fuel on hand to run either. :D
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Originally Posted by Jassman
(Post 2349332)
What do you do for a living.
Mix-matching gas and diesel is not a good idea. |
Originally Posted by Jassman
(Post 2348657)
I was just told different, that is the main reason why I have gone this route. Many deaths from articles I have read due to the gas generators. It sounds like the gas generators have gotten better.
What does having two types of fuels, in seperate tanks, in totally different locations on your boat make it more combustable, especially when diesel is not combustable...someone explain that to me. Thanks Jeff |
Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2349290)
If they are brushless type they will be the same. If they are brush type there will be spark arrestor screens over all the cooling openings.
Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2349290)
Besides it's not just the backend! The starter and the alternator on the diesel engine are not protected like the ones on a gasoline engine.
You keep making blanket statements regarding EVERY diesel generator and EVERY diesel engine, which on the basis of that alone, makes it incorrect. I know you're trying very hard to impress everyone with your knowledge, but a blanket statement will blow your argument every time. :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by jordy
(Post 2349501)
So now we agree on that part. Thanks.
You keep making blanket statements regarding EVERY diesel generator and EVERY diesel engine, which on the basis of that alone, makes it incorrect. I know you're trying very hard to impress everyone with your knowledge, but a blanket statement will blow your argument every time. :rolleyes: As far as I can check, I find DONZIJAPAN's info to be spot on, as is his advice. |
Originally Posted by Wobble
(Post 2349514)
As far as I can check, I find DONZIJAPAN's info to be spot on, as is his advice.
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Originally Posted by jordy
(Post 2349541)
...There are OEM boat manufacturers that offer gas propulsion packages with diesel generators. Guess they don't know what they're doing. :rolleyes::food-smiley-007:
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Originally Posted by Jassman
(Post 2190705)
What are the pro's and con's between the two. We do over night, and have always had diesel, but are worried about the Carbon Minoxide. Have the gas gotten better. Thanks Jeff
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Originally Posted by VetteLT193
(Post 2349554)
Which manufacturers?
My 2000 38 SS TG, 2000 42 Sonic, 2003 37 A.T., 2004 43 Nortech, 2007 43 Nortech but that was diesel engines as well as generator, and lastly my 2008 43 Nortech. I guess they all have no clue what they are doing.:rolleyes: Im going to check my boat to see how many CO detecters are in the boat..Thanks Guys. |
Originally Posted by Wobble
(Post 2349492)
Jassman I am sorry that you were given bad info, Carbon Monoxide is one of the primary products of any combustion. Here is a good article re: safety. http://www.yachtsurvey.com/carbon_monoxide_alert.htm
Sleeping On Board Most CO fatalities occur to occupants sleeping on board with gas generators running. My advice is to regard sleeping with a generator running as very dangerous unless you have a high degree of certitude that the exhaust system is absolutely secure, and that you have a CO monitor that is certified operational. |
Originally Posted by VetteLT193
(Post 2349444)
Who cares? What he writes is fact. The regulations for marine gas engines are beyond tight. Diesel on the other hand are not tight at all.
Mix-matching gas and diesel is not a good idea. |
Originally Posted by Jassman
(Post 2349668)
My 2000 38 SS TG, 2000 42 Sonic, 2003 37 A.T., 2004 43 Nortech, 2007 43 Nortech but that was diesel engines as well as generator, and lastly my 2008 43 Nortech. I guess they all have no clue what they are doing.:rolleyes:
Im going to check my boat to see how many CO detecters are in the boat..Thanks Guys.
Originally Posted by Jassman
(Post 2349699)
Again like DONZI Japan, give me a reason, not some lip service. Educate me, SHOW ME ARTICLES..I have no problems with that, I learn every day. Ive been on here since OCT 2000, Ive seen alot of smack talk over the years. Good, bad or indifferent, Donzi joined last month, has 83 posts and Ive read the majority of them. I like to know whom Im talking with, it would be nice to gain some credibility by both of you filling out some more of your information. or LET US KNOW WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING SO THAT WE ALL MIGHT BE ABLE TO LEARN FROM THIS THREAD. Thanks Jeff
I'll try to explain in basic language. you can look up the laws if you feel like it. Your boat has to comply to Federal law (183.401), because it has at least one gas engine installed inside the boat. That law (183.410 specifically) points to SAE J1171, which is the international specification regulating marine starters/alternators/etc. and spark protection for gas engines. Now, look up a diesel alternator, starter, etc. I did a quick google of one for a Yanmar (I'm pretty sure the engine mase uses?). here is the link... http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=115711F Add all that up, and you can see what we're trying to say. And, the worst part is even if you managed to find a J1171 compliant set, the most important thing is that you (and future owners) always get J1171 compliant parts to go on it, which will be no where as easy to find for diesels. FWIW: I didn't/don't mean to sound like a jerk with all this... it just is what it is... |
Originally Posted by VetteLT193
(Post 2349790)
The Nortech with diesels obviously doesn't count. The current Nortech, I thought, was the one the YOU added the genset to? I haven't seen a factory option for diesel gensets from Sonic, don't know what the other brands are from your abbreviations.
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I recently had a very bad experience with a new Kohler Diesel generator. It was less than a year old & only had 28 hours on it when it stopped running. It would start & then shut right off. The kohler people scratched their heads for three months and finally had to remove it & get it back to their shop for repairs. Fortunately it was on my Bertram & I have a second generator.
Go a few extra dollars & buy a Northern Lights. That is what I have as the main generator. They are both 8kw but the Kohler sounds like a freight train going by. Both generators are less than a year old. |
Jeff, I beleive Sunsation was going to go with Westerbeke on MP's F-4. Some good reading here --> http://www.westerbeke.com/
At one time they did talk about going with a Fischer Panda diesel genset but ultimately ended up at going with a gas genset. http://www.fischerpanda.com/ Give John a call tonight and he can fill you in on all the details. He has had a few conversations with the factory on this topic. Hope you, Sandy, and family had a great holiday weekend! |
Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2350025)
Alas somebody is doing their homework! Give the boy a gold star!:evilb:
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Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2350082)
The difference in noise levels is because the difference in engine rpms. The kohler is 3600 rpm to the 1800 of the northern lights. Northern lights is a decent unit it's a ISM (Shibaura) engine with a Taiyo Denki back end. But there is better bang for your buck. You will be happier with a Phasor unit built by South Eastern Power Products. They use a Kubota engine with a Stamford Newage back end. It's the most bullet proof unit I've seen so far.:evilb:
I'm under the impression Northern Lights are bullet proof, but heavy. Great for a sail boat, I can't say I've seen them in many powerboats, have you? Seems to me that onan and westerbeke dominate the pleasure market for diesel anyway. |
Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2350113)
Doesn't matter what fuel you use Carbon Monoxide is a serious danger! You have to adopt a multilevel program to defend against it. One on installation, install the unit isolated from any passenger compartments. Be sure so seal any wiring / control passages! Also exhaust the unit as far aft and as low as possible. Two prepare your passenger compartments. Install two detectors per passenger compartment. One high and one low close to the deck. Also install forced ventilation that exhausts floor level air out side below the shear and draws fresh air from above the shear. Three pay attention to your day to day operations keep your engine room closed during operation and always moor into the wind. Four use common sense the above suggestions are not everything keep your eyes open for new and undiscovered dangers :evilb:
Thank You. Jeff |
Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2350745)
Westerbeke has the best gasoline units so they have the gasoline boat market sewed up.
Onan is the 600 pound gorilla in the room. I've got the Westerbeke BPMG 3kw Gas and I'm really happy with it so far. :cool: and I always thought that Gorilla weighed 800 lbs. :rolleyes: :D |
Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2350851)
So he is up to 800 lbs? Must be getting fat off the backs of the smaller manufacturers.:evilb:
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Wow, this is just an accident waiting to happen, right??? Those engines pushing the boat definately aren't diesel, and it's got a diesel generator in it... bunch of idiots. That boat should be worth pennies on the dollar... :rolleyes:
http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.c...o19524-en.html |
Originally Posted by jordy
(Post 2351321)
Wow, this is just an accident waiting to happen, right??? Those engines pushing the boat definately aren't diesel, and it's got a diesel generator in it... bunch of idiots. That boat should be worth pennies on the dollar... :rolleyes:
http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.c...o19524-en.html To start off on the Cig in the ad, where is the gen set? It could be in it's own compartment away from any gas/gas vapors. It could also be a fully compliant gen set, if it is, great... the only thing that must happen is every owner buys the proper replacement parts. |
Originally Posted by DonziJapan
(Post 2351376)
Someone who calls people who are safety minded and law abiding "A bunch of idiots" needs to look in the mirror and use the the word "Idiot". :evilb:
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