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Old 09-12-2007, 10:49 AM
  #11
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On that motor you set base timing in timing mode and the computer adjusts it from there. As everyone else has said, its normal to see the eradic changes at idle. If your mechanic didn't know this, take his expertise in this application with a grain of salt. I had a similar problem with a 99 454Mag and sold the boat after replacing many of the things you did. The next owner eventually replaced the wiring harness and fixed the problem. My motor was laying down when over 3/4 throttle. Sometimes it completely died. We replaced sensors. We put an external fuel pump and guage on it. Replaced the cool fuel assembly. Ran from an alternate fuel supply, etc. At the end it was the computer killing the motor after getting a bad signal somewhere it the loop due to the faulty harness.
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Old 09-12-2007, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rangerrick63 View Post
I did remove all the grounds & cleaned them real good. All were tight & I didn't find any corrision, but however, when I removed the module from the distributer, I noticed a white residue all over the mounting plate, & even under the module. I was able to wipe it off, just not sure if it was some sort of dielectric grease or corrision preventive. I do know that I should put the grease under the module, but should I also cover the entire mounting plate?
As for the knock sensor....It does have one, but the scan tool showed that there was no "signal" that was indicating a knock. So I would assume that the sensor is working correctly?

The white stuff is heat sink compound (thermal dielectric grease) It is important that you re-apply to the back of the module when installing the module.
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Old 09-12-2007, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by OkieTunnel View Post
On that motor you set base timing in timing mode and the computer adjusts it from there. As everyone else has said, its normal to see the eradic changes at idle. If your mechanic didn't know this, take his expertise in this application with a grain of salt. I had a similar problem with a 99 454Mag and sold the boat after replacing many of the things you did. The next owner eventually replaced the wiring harness and fixed the problem. My motor was laying down when over 3/4 throttle. Sometimes it completely died. We replaced sensors. We put an external fuel pump and guage on it. Replaced the cool fuel assembly. Ran from an alternate fuel supply, etc. At the end it was the computer killing the motor after getting a bad signal somewhere it the loop due to the faulty harness.
I have wondered if it could be in the harness, I actually ohm'd each ground wire from the computer connection back to the terminal. Each one tested fine, I even moved the harness around when testing. I know that is not an absoulete test, but with this "issue" I'm trying everything.
As for the timing, it was eratic with all RPM's, it never did smooth out. Shouldn't it smooth out at upper RPM's?
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Old 09-12-2007, 03:21 PM
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I have twin 454 Magnums, model year 2000.

I also went through this entire exercise -- changing lots of parts, lots of time under scan tools -- with Teague and Pfaff essentially giving up, both giving me advice to replace the engines (7 years old, 700 hours, "That's why people sell used boats, etc). LOTS of $$$$$$$$$$$ and lost time boating and interrupted adventures.

However, it was obvious to me that there was no intrinsic problem with the engines -- they idled smoothly forever, often ran flawlessly, but sometimes alarms would go off and/or the engines would work strangely (including timing going all over the place). Restarting the engines often cleared the problems temporarily.

Finally, I had the wiring harnesses on both engines replaced. Mercruiser just took the serial numbers of both engines, and delivered new ones. It took Pfaff days to install them -- its a tight engine compartment, side by side engines. Again, $$$$$

But since then, the engines again work like new.

When I looked at the harnesses, both had different problems with different pins on different connectors. Some wires had corrosion under the insulation, only visible after the harnesses were removed.

Basically, your engine reads all the sensors all the time, and then adjusts all the actuators all the time. If the signals from or to any sensor or actuator are not correct, then all sorts of wierd stuff happens.

When EFI works, its great. When it does not, its almost impossible to correctly diagnose: any symptom can be due to any sensor or actuator or, as in my case, the entire wiring harness.
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Old 09-12-2007, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by carcrash View Post
I have twin 454 Magnums, model year 2000.

I also went through this entire exercise -- changing lots of parts, lots of time under scan tools -- with Teague and Pfaff essentially giving up, both giving me advice to replace the engines (7 years old, 700 hours, "That's why people sell used boats, etc). LOTS of $$$$$$$$$$$ and lost time boating and interrupted adventures.

However, it was obvious to me that there was no intrinsic problem with the engines -- they idled smoothly forever, often ran flawlessly, but sometimes alarms would go off and/or the engines would work strangely (including timing going all over the place). Restarting the engines often cleared the problems temporarily.

Finally, I had the wiring harnesses on both engines replaced. Mercruiser just took the serial numbers of both engines, and delivered new ones. It took Pfaff days to install them -- its a tight engine compartment, side by side engines. Again, $$$$$

But since then, the engines again work like new.

When I looked at the harnesses, both had different problems with different pins on different connectors. Some wires had corrosion under the insulation, only visible after the harnesses were removed.

Basically, your engine reads all the sensors all the time, and then adjusts all the actuators all the time. If the signals from or to any sensor or actuator are not correct, then all sorts of wierd stuff happens.

When EFI works, its great. When it does not, its almost impossible to correctly diagnose: any symptom can be due to any sensor or actuator or, as in my case, the entire wiring harness.
Boyyy do I know exactly what you are talking about...Luckily, I never had to be towed back in to the dock, the boat always ran just good enough to get me home. Although, that last Sun, I was worried about it...LOL..
You, along with an ealier post has me wondering if I may have a harness issue. Just the inconsistant nature of this problem. Most of the time the boat runs perfect, but then without warning, it falls off, & I can't isolate as to when or what makes it happen, it just happens.
Not real sure what I can do, if anything to narrow it down a bit farther to show the harness as being the "culprit", but I may have to dig a bit further than just checking the grounds. You say your biggest issue was corrision? When I peeled back the wire loom & checked each ground, I found no corrision at all, & each one checked out fine, but I didn't completely remove the harness.
I plan on replacing the module, it's only $50, & if that proves not to be the problem, then, maybe the harness is my next step....I do appreciate all your input on this.
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Old 09-12-2007, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerrick63 View Post
I did remove all the grounds & cleaned them real good. All were tight & I didn't find any corrision, but however, when I removed the module from the distributer, I noticed a white residue all over the mounting plate, & even under the module. I was able to wipe it off, just not sure if it was some sort of dielectric grease or corrision preventive. I do know that I should put the grease under the module, but should I also cover the entire mounting plate?
As for the knock sensor....It does have one, but the scan tool showed that there was no "signal" that was indicating a knock. So I would assume that the sensor is working correctly?
That white residue is a heat block to keep the engine heat from frying the module. You need to re-apply some.

I have seen an exhaust leak fool a knock sensor into retarding the timing.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward R. Cozzi View Post
That white residue is a heat block to keep the engine heat from frying the module. You need to re-apply some.

I have seen an exhaust leak fool a knock sensor into retarding the timing.

Ed, the white compound is actually there to promote heat transfer from the components in the module to the module mounting plate, we use it all the time in the electronics business, it is almost as nasty to use as anti-seize compound.

There are components in the module that will overheat and fail in the absence of a good heat sink.
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Old 09-13-2007, 10:07 AM
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OH! Sorry, I stand corrected. I knew it did something for heat, but I always assumed it was the heat from the distributor housing that would harm the module.

See, even at my age I learn new things! Thanks.
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Old 09-13-2007, 12:32 PM
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Is this what is provided with the module, or do I need to get it from somewhere else?
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Old 09-13-2007, 12:38 PM
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Is this what is provided with the module, or do I need to get it from somewhere else?
it usually comes in a little tube or packet with the module
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