Noob needs help selecting first go-fast...
 

Let me preface this post by saying I have been trolling this site for a couple years now, picking up info wherever I can.

I am still not as savvy with boats as I am with cars, so please bear with me if I say anything stupid. :) I'm just interested to hear everybody's opinion that cares to offer it to me... I have a completely open mind.

Here are my criteria and how I plan to use the boat:

Usage: Trailering to Lake Michigan, Chain O Lakes, possible LOTO. Looking for durability cuz I know it gets big out there.
Size: 28-32
Power: twins, just in case one decides to quit on the lake... unless someone can make a really good case for a single. Looking for something 700-800 hp or so in total, I guess.
Speed: 70+?
Price: Want to spend $30,000-40,000
Year:90 or newer

I would also like a boat that is party (and female :D) friendly, so it has to have a bench in the back with a sun/swim pad + platform. A cabin is a must too... No stripper race boats.

Here are a few that grabbed my attention... What do you think?

http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.c...o20283-en.html

http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.c...o19721-en.html

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=75118&url=

Lay it on me.

:party-smiley-004:

Those all look like nice choices. You would always have bragging rights with the Apache, even if slower than a beak boat with the same motors. The Apache is likely to hold it's value best, like a very special muscle car.

We have a 1988 Sonic 30SS, cruised all over the place in it, stayed on it up to ten days at a time. The sliding cushion that goes under the v berth is genius, and we prefer sleeping on that boat to sleeping at home. TONS of room with a separate head, and THAT is critical IMO. You might want to check those out, as most agree the Sonic 30SS is the biggest and most user friendly inside.

The Y2K 30 foot Superboat with a single in it is a great choice also, but a bit cramped inside. One of the newer fuel injected singles is going to be super reliable and much cheaper to operate. Hence the attraction of the Superboat if cruising long distances.

What is your boating exp. Is this your first boat or your first performance boat?

Jon

They are all nice boats! Good luck choosing

Both the apache and pantera look good. I'd buy the one thats in the best shape. There was a thread about 2-4 weeks ago about that apache.

Yes, a marine survey is absolutely necessary before agreeing on a price.

In know of a 1995 Baja 32 Caliber with twin 454EFIs (770hp), 4 bolsters, latham steering, Eagle trailer, very low hours, like new, owned by a dealer since new and never titled.

Of the boats you have listed, I (personally) would probably lean toward the Pantera. The Apache and the Pantera are both going to handle big water better than the Donzi, but the Donzi is probably going to be much more economical to operate given the 2xsmall block engines. Definitely have a survey done on any of them (you'll probably have to anyway if you're financing). It's true that the Apache will probably hold value the best, but most Apaches I've seen have been beat on pretty good. They are made to withstand it, though. Resale value is kinda screwy right now 'cause the boat market sucks.

If I were you (a newbee), I would look for a Formula 292, Fountain 29, or a Baja 30.

Good luck! :cool:

Budget will make or kill you on your first offshore. Be prepared for insurance, fuel, repairs, etc. Also, if you're towing, remember you won't be pulling a 30+ foot boat with twins all that safely or legally with an F-150.

Your listed parameters sound pretty much right on. Don't make the mistake of hurrying this process- unless you're prepared to write some big checks to bail yourself out. I've seen beautiful boats at nice prices that were nightmares underneath. A profesional high-performance survey is a must. You're at a little of a disadvantage since a sea trial isn't an option this time of year but a good surveyor will work you around this.

You're going to have to navigate a delicate balance between...

Year
Name Brand
Size
Power/drives
Condition.

Decide in advance what you're willing to compromize on and that will make your decisions easier.

Narrow it down to the boats that you like. Have the ones you are interested in surveyed. Test drive if possible. Make an offer. The market is tough now, it is a buyers market. He who shows up with real money and no BS will get a great deal. You would be suprised to see how low people will go to sell. They will still be making more then if they traded in at a dealer.

Sonic will give you some nice creature comforts for the ladies.

if ur new id go with the donzi....

its sounds like ur not that hardcore... ( willing to pay 2x for an old boat with an indian on the side)

stock merc power newer and stepped is the way to go... newer interior and styling gauges and shifters....
and gas is gonna be way cheaper

I agree on the Donzi from what I've read.

Thanks for the info on the sonic and the Superboat... I will look into them. Not going to be spending too many overnights on the boat I'd guess, but you never know.

This is my first boat, period. I have learned quite a bit from going out on (and operating from time to time) my friend's 88 scarab 3 34'... He's a member on the board under 'layzdunck.' I have been doing a lot of research about the do's and don't's of powerboating by reading a lot of books on boating and of course, spending a lot of time on OSO. I'm the type of obsessive personality that absorbs information like a sponge any time I am going to get into something new, and I don't like the idea of doing anything irresponsably.

Good info, thanks. I was leaning toward something like the Apache at first, but the more recent, but still badass Pantera and more reliable Donz probably would make a better buy for my situation I think...

How was your friend's Donzi on the top end? The reliability and cost of operating small block power is appealing but at what cost to performance?

I'm not going to just blow for the first thing I see, that's for sure... That's why I am doing all the research I can now... Probably not buying for 3-5 months yet.

Money talks I am sure with so many people having trouble obtaining financing. Thanks for the help.


So, any other makes or models I should consider?

At this point, I think something like the Donzi or Baja would probably make the most sense.

:ernaehrung004:

Chris, I heard you were shopping! For what you want to be doing, I would suggest

Late 80's Formula 311. Good rough water boat, built well, readily available. With 800HP total , should be around 70mph boat.

Cigarette Bullet. 31ft, good rough water boat, and its a cig.

Older 33ft(10meter) fountain's were good, fast with mild power, and the ones I have seen hold up well on the big lake. Just ask Frank Holas from the CPC club, he has one that runs 100MPH, Ive seen him outrun lots of bigger badder boats with his boat.

My Excalibur is sold, and Im now shopping for something faster and smaller. Looking at 32-35ft boats. The big wave crushers are nice for cruising and looking cool, but they honestly get pretty boring tooling around at 55mph. Plus I want to do more poker run and loto trips, and its a lot easier with a 32 on the hitch than a 15k lb 40ft tank back there!

By the way Chris, I know someone who has a early 90's like 91 or 92 28ft pantera with twin 454's for 25g with a trailer right here on the south side. Might be of interest to you.

You got that right... I certainly don't want to pull an abrams. ;)

I'll look into those for sure. I really don't want to go much bigger than a 30, cuz I wanna have some trailering flexibility. I'll certainly be down to cruise to LOTO later in the year, when I get used to handling whatever heap I pic up. Ha.

When I pick it up, I think I am going to haul it up to twin lakes, WI, by my friend Pat's lake house, so I can get really comfortable with handling the boat before I get out on the big lake. His dad will laugh his ass off when he sees me doing circles on Lake Elizabeth. LOL.

http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.c...o20536-en.html

http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.c...o19199-en.html

two here that seem to fit the bill.

don't waste your time with small blocks. this is offshore powerboating here, leave your gas mileage concerns to your daily commute. not to mention the donzi is ugly.

i think a trip out by tommy houston will help with your decision. e-mail joe (mild thunder) for that info.

don't worry, we'll help you find the right boat when you're ready.

You gotta point there man. It's not like I own anything that has good gas mileage anyway.

I would be interested in that pantera, Joe... Is there any way to get me some pics of it?

What do you think of this matt?
http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.com/files/19721.jpg
1998 pantera twin 454/365 hp.new interior new exhaust alum trailor 290 hours second owner boat has been winterized so please be real interested when calling

Yea well dream on. Reality sucks.

If you are going for older late 80's early 90's, look for some 454/365HP 454/420HP engines. They will be a good base for adding blowers/upgrades down the road, and in stock form with decent hours they are pretty much bulletproof. I have seen too many issues with "custom" rebuilds and stuff. TRS drives are nice, but require transmissions, which adds to the weight, and is also one more thing to break. TRS were pretty much extinct on production boats after 1989 or so, with the exception of some cigarettes and custom boats that had them till 92 or 93. Bravos are readily available used, and drive upgrades are easy. Konrads are the best upgrade for a trs boat, but are not cheap, a pair will cost around half as much as the boat me or you will be driving.

So far I have had 4 go fast boats, and Ive pretty much had to go thru each boat mechanically, from rebuilding motors to replacing drives, etc. My first boat I got "lured" into the "built" engine with all the custom heads, big cam, big carb, and speed numbers. From april to sept I got to get about 8 hours of run time out of that heap. But when you are ready to pull the trigger, matt and I will come down and go over the "new" boat before you hand over the check, to look for possible issues like stringer and transom rot, compression/leakdown tests, delamination signs, etc. No worries, you will be running with the right crew :cool-smiley-011:

Yeah I know that for sure. Thanks for the help!

I was thinking 92+ year wise... I think it will be easier to get financed and I like the idea of updated cockpits and interiors. I do like the idea of stockish power for reliability's sake, I'm not made of money and want something that makes sense.

What do you think of this from the first page?
http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.c...o19721-en.html

I saw that pantera in Tommy's shop a few months back. He had that 28, a 30ft sutphen with kaama surface drives, both boats 25g and supposedly ready to run complete. The pantera looks like the one in the pic you posted, but without the cat eyes, its pretty much all white if I remember correctly. But Matt can change that and do something cool paint wise should you decide to go that route. Never been on a pantera, but I know they are built solid and handle the rough well for a 28.

I like it. 454 mags and bravos would make for a reliable package, and those engines with the correct maintance will run. Franks old 375 Stinger had 900 hours on his 454/365 engines and he was definitly not mr. maintenance. 900 hours and the intake was never off, not too mention many many full throttle runs for 15 minutes straight were quite common when he had that boat. My favorite merc motor. They respond really well to cam, exhaust, intake, and carb upgrades. You can bump them to 425-440HP very easy.

You may see this go by you at 100 :cool-smiley-011:

Ooooh oooooh that is a bad ***** ya got there... Matt told me you looked at it today- 92 on GPS?

I dig all white boats. And I am sure I could design something for matt to paint on there, I love cooking up that kinda ****.

92 now, but with some forced induction plans it could run really nice. Same hull ran 122 on radar with 750's and arnesons in new york.

Matt and I are going to have to go to jet engines to keep up. Congrats on the boat, going with a blower or a turbo setup?

Id go with blowers, nothing wild, just some small B&M 250's. The old "black Cloud" is for for sale, its a 32 Hustler, originally had surface drives, but now has bravo's on boxes and 540CI motors.

Its got your name on it.

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/8/7/90538887.htm

I have a '94 27' Fountain for 40k. Sun pad, great new stereo, cabin is ultra suede, big power. Take a look.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...d.php?t=164377

If you dont think it is too small give me a shout. 980-722-9463

Personally, this was my first hi-perf boat, in my opinion a single would be a better first step into go fasts.

Rob

Good Luck....See ya out there.

I also started with a single 24ft boat that ran 70mph. Then I jumped to a 40ft with twins. It was like having to learn all over again. My experiance is that a twin boat is easier to manuever around, and at 2am on lake michigan if you lose a motor, you can still get back to the harbor.

The big dough and the partially unfinished cabin turn me off about that sled although the boat looks great in red... And I'm sure it's xtra bad with those 540's.

+1 on the needing twins. Thanks for the link to your Fountain though, good luck with the sale. It's a great looking boat.

???



i like the pantera, but if i'm painting your boat, you're helpin with the grunt work.

What you mean like designing the paint work and buying you beer, some :cool-smiley-027:, **** like that?



Ha.

Count on it man. Thanks.

no,,,,, i mean sanding.... and lots of it

Let me know when you guys are gonna take on that project so I can make sure I'll be in Florida at that time! :party-smiley-004::signs069: