540 stroker,,DUD engine, dont do it.
 

Im in the process of building a gen VI 502. I had mentioned stroking it to 540 cu in to four different engine builder friends of mine. Top notch guys who have been doing this for longer then I have been alive, (38 yrs) Was told by all that a short deck 540 would have excessive piston wear and wouldnt make good power. After running both packages through a reliable computer program in order to pick a cam it turned out the 502 030 over made more torque and HP then the 540. Heard 557 is the ticket? Anybody have one for a while?

Engine builders or MARINE engine builders??????

The 540 is more capable of making more hp and torque than a 509.

I guess it depends on how hard you're going to run it. I have 400 hours on a set of Innovation 600 hp short-deck 540's....

in the marine word.......".theres no replacement for displacement"

My "short deck" 540 made 657Hp with mpi fuel injection and only 8.1-1 compression N/A and 1115hp with the procharger bolted on,I would buy a new computer program or change the info your putting into it because somethings flawed,haven't heard of any marine 502's or 509's out performing 540's,Smitty

I used to think/hear the same thing years ago before I had my 4.25" stroked short deck engines built. A tall deck is nice, but not necessary. I guess it depends on who you talk to. My people tell me the BB Chevy short deck with 4.25" stroke isn't the greatest rod/stroke angle, but at 5500-6000rpm it isn't chit and no concern for wear. Now a short deck with a 4.50" stroke is a place I probably wouldn't go---don't hear much about those for marine engines.

A 540 combo in a short deck block is absolutely no problem. I have built many 4.250 stroke , short deck engines and all run excellent with ZERO wear problems of any kind. Our 1 X 4 540 marine N/A package makes 750 HP effortlessly. If your using a Dart block you may want to consider going to a 4.560 bore. This will give you better breathing on the cylinder heads and make a bit more power. You will still have plenty of cylinder life with the block . (max bore 4.630)

I've got blown 540's with over 200 hours and no problems. A friend has N/A 540's putting out 625 with loads of hours. His tunnel rams are very nice. I think you should talk to some of the major engine builders. Call Tommy @ Chief, great guy and builder, he won't steer you wrong. I would STAY AWAY for whoever you are talking to now! Just my .02.

A buddy's got a low-deck 540, 871 blown, 850 hp. 400 hrs, never been apart, works very well.

I am running a Dart Big M 9.800" deck height, Callies Magnum 4.25" crank, Lunati 6.385" rods, Mahle 4.5" pistons. Makes 725 hp with no problems, n/a, 9.25 compression.

Hey, Can you tell me more about your setup? Drive,prop,steering. What HP produced the 98 mph?

Ofcourse if you have one or build them to sell you wont agree. But if you build BB chevy day in and out for 30 years. Dynoing them as well as taking them apart years later to freshen them you know a 540 wont make the 30 hp more it should then a 509 and will have more wear if built the same way. Not saying a 540 is junk and ofcourse it will run well but hands down the 502 is a better stroke.
The program used is used by Gale Banks and he swear by it. As far as the guys who agree with me on this, most of them asked me not drop there names. Top notch marine engine builders in NY are in a small circle. Look at Mercruisers 540 bulldog @ 470 pshp. the 500Hp is the same pshp with SLIGHTLY more compression. Why is the 500HP the choice for racing over the 540??? Call Mercruiser and get a good honest tech on the line. See what he says. I rest my case.

Amen!!!:D

The bulldog was built to stack s**t on top! I have 4@1/4 cranks in my 502's and it is a world of difference. I think you need new heros.

Heroes?? Flate rate have you any engine building experience ?? No Heroes here, just guys who forgot more then most know about engine building. Dont wory, Just because you got sold on 540s doesnt make you bad. Not as experienced mabye, but not bad. You just could have saved some money and had a more reliable engine. The old nothing clintches cubic inches was cool before the dyno was refined. Especially for marine use where hp,torque and rpm are more critical.Correct me if IM wrong but I dont even think Mercruiser even builds a 540 anymore??? Gee I wonder why. Ask them, They gave me an ear full on this matter.

"Built to stack s*** on top??? Mercruiser builds engines as finished packages, Why would they put the same carb and intale from the 500 hp on it. To have you replace it with a blower???????

[QUOTE=PIT BULL;2425363]
Top notch marine engine builders in NY are in a small circle jerk.

I thought JC was the only Marine engine builder in New York :D

I havent been on this sight in a while and dont know your candor.
Either you are real stupid or real funny. If your stupid I guess 540s are one of your best sellers. I post remarks stating a case and all a big shot like yourself can do is talk **** about NY engine builders. I would at least figure an "expert" like yourself would have an explanation. If your funny? haha.

Are we building engines to last 1000 hrs in a Sea Ray express or are we wanting to go fast? I would rather rebuild at 200 hrs then give up some power!! To each his own, good luck with your 502's.

For a guy with 24 post you sure know how to make friends. I really don't care what you buy. I have only related my experience. My 509's weren't anything compared to my 540's. I would never go back. But to each his own. Best of luck.

Thanks, My point is efficiency. If the extra friction of the longer stroke is holding it back from being as productive as it should, Why use it? Why not go to a tall deck 557?? And even a dud 540 built properly will last more then 200 hrs with proper maintenance. IM not saying to junk your 540. Just if your deciding to stroke your 502 for under 5500 rpm usage stick with what you have.

Dont need anymore friends. And if you carefully read the whole post befor jumping on a band wagon you would realize IM opening a legitmate descuission. Just because my truthfull facts make sense Im a bad guy? Just talking engines and trying to make sense while guys who dont know half of what I do bash me. Would just like to prevent guys from making a mistake I almost did. How about someone defending the 502 vs 540 with facts?? Instead of trash.

I really don't understand what you're saying Pit Bull. More dispacement will make more hp and torque. That's just how it works. Is your arguement that a 502 will out live a 540 with the exact same parts and tolerances? I would like to see some proof. I have heard that you can make more torque with a 454 stroked to 496 than a stock 502 because of the stroke. If your theory was correct would the 496 or the 502 live longer? Build wise when your doing a motor from scratch there's little or no difference in building a 540 or 509/502 with the same block.

My understanding is a longer stroke makes more torque. Especially in low reving engines. In a marine engine torque gets the boat on plane and determines top speed, which is everyones #1 interest. If I remember correctly the bulldog had the same hp as a 500, but higher torque. They are also famous for their durability.

""a 540 wont make the 30 hp more it should then a 509 and will also have more wear if built the same way. Not saying a 540 is junk and of course it will run well but hands down the 502 is a better stroke combination." pasted from previous post.

This is all I'M saying, Not selling engines here. Like the 496 502 theory Badkachanga mentioned. Its probably true. Should I go off on him because I'M building a 502? Fact is fact. I just like to know them before I build anything or do anything. Go ask and test this question to different REAL engine builders like I did for the last 6 months and tell me what you come up with.

My theory is that it has to do with harmonics.A 540s stroke exerts more wall pressure which, adds more friction thus, works more against volume potential then a 502. Yes it should make more power But much less efficient power. Which, is more productive.Mark my words the 557 is the next key stroke combo.

This Pitbull doesn't know his Azz from FAT meat. Why are you talking about stuff you have NO clue about boy?? and Why did you ask a question that obviously you already know all the answers?:Whatever:
There is no place here for ignorance. :angry-smiley-038:

good reading dont stop now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pitbull, Your behind about technology by about 15 years. I have been building 557's in many applications for years both N/A and supercharged . Yes it is a very good combination in many ways.

mrhp, Your first post gives me the impression that you do bench work on a pic nic table in a back yard full of farm animals. And you agree with me by telling me I know the answer.. Your second post you agree again with what I said about 557s. Which proves my point. You have been building 557 FOR YEARS you say. Whats the problem? You haven't moved on to the next thing. I own a 7000 sq ft Mercedes Benz repair shop with 9 lifts that I built from the ground up. I rebuild MB engines and transmissions in house. Got a 4,000 lb 99 e class to run 10.60s. Got my Harley to run 12.0s.and my daily driven pick up in the low 12 as well. Not saying I am an expert marine engine builder. But I know how to make things work. There are a lot of engine builders that go through life thinking bigger is better,and more is better. Only because there not smart enough to read, learn or question others.Go ahead be a follower and keep building the same thing you have been. Good engine builders evolve to new things.

and their you have it ,,, spoken by the man who makes boats go fast ,, and ,,, he build's the engines that do it !!!!!! Way to go Dean,,

RHC

Pit Bull,,

I was giving you the benifit of the doubt untill you tried to tell me that you have a low 12 pickup that is your daily driver ,,, even with today's tires ,, that thing will not drive on the street daily and run low 12's ,,,, unless of course , work is only 1/4 mile away !!:D:D

RHC

PitBull - You gave the impression that you were asking a question. Now that you got a majority opinion that you don't like, you're claiming to have just been making a statement. You can't have it both ways. You've been out-voted, but that's not what matters. Show some class and relax. Everyone's allowed their opinion and their own choices, including you. And me - I'm sticking with my "ineffecient" 540's.

It's Buddy00 all over again!!! He has found out over the last 6 months, so Mr. Hoursepower who has actually been building them for 30 years don't know chit? F this idiot, if he can build MB junk why the F don't he put a couple of them in his junkie boat and shut the F up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you have a 502 with a 4.000 stroke and a 6.135 connecting rod that figures out to a 1.53 rod ratio with a 19.03 angle on the cylinder wall. On a 540 with a 4.250 stroke and a 6.385 connecting rod that has a 1.50 rod ratio and a 19.44 degree angle on the cylinder wall. How are you getting more friction ??. I ran a 67 camaro 7.20's and it was street legal and my Harley runs low 11's sreet legal and my cadilac gets 25 MPG. :D

Thank you for the science. Case Closed! I'd trade my 509 for a 540.

We don't follow we lead, and I personally don't have time to deal with BS. All on the board here including my good friend Tyler and others were just trying to help you answer your question. We have a list of achievements, national records, championships, ect. dating back from 1955 which I do not have to boast about. Before you open your trap you should first know who your shouting at and acting like a kid born with a gold spoon in his Azz. Or may be a Mercedes emblem. :D

Dude your way off base!
Guess ya dont get out much if ya dont know who
MR. Horsepower is.

Whats next?????Whos Sterling????

Please!!!
Pull my Finger and I will tell ya more!

Was waiting for the "I own this car and it's this fast. I own this bike, and it's this fast. I own a MB shop..." blah, blah, blah. You just lost all credibility.

As was stated before, you started off asking a question and for opinions. When the opinions didn't align with yours, you began trashing well-respected engine builders on this board. As mrhp said, he and others on this board have many "documented" accomplishments to hang their hat on. When you jump into an argument with "Well known engine builders who don't want their name mentioned" well....

Okay so I'm not sure what to do now, I've got 500 bulldogs with 70hrs on them, should I send them to Pit Bull and get them refreshed before this summer or I am I safe to run them for another season.

If I do get them freshened and put a mercedees benz fuel injection system on and the black plastic covers from a 500 SL AMG would that get my boat to break 100, of course that is assuming I put 45 inch 6 blade herring's on my bravo's to handle the horse power gain.

Would I also have to run a synthetic oil because of the new fuel injection.

My Hull is very AERODYNAMIC so I think this is possible what do you guys think.

These threads seem to raise so many questions:D

yeah post # 28.......saw that comeing

PitBull:

I salute you for trying to use a little math and science to look at a discussion issue of deck height versus stroke combinations. I think everyone here on the forum appreciates your ideas, questions and discussion.

This is the life blood of the forum, questions? discussions, opinions and answers!

As for your qustion and views about the 540 versus 557 I would point out as an engine builder that it is somewhat important to look at rod to stroke ratios on deck heights in planning an engine but there are other things to take into account. One, the rod length and piston compression height can be easily varied to overcome angularity and piston speed issues as they relate to side loads and power losses. Two,the application and average rpm range the engine will be operating in and the loads that will be exposed to the combination must be taken into account. As we all know drag engines are a different animal than boat engines and the requirements for both are so different, its like comparing apples to pomegranits.
My expierence and the history of the marine engine 540 short deck motor has been one of nothing but pretty good successes. The strength of the 502 siamised bore block coupled with a 6.385 rod, a 1.314 CH and a 4.25" stroke in a 9.8" deck 502 block makes more torque and horsepower than any similar 502 and will run many happy hours if "ITS BUILT RIGHT" !!
This is the perfect rebuild or replacement for any HP500, HP525SC HP525 or 502 siamesed block engine upgrade.
Harmonics and side loads are not an issue and the quality of the machining, crank, rods, pistons, rings, the bearing clearances, piston clearances and crankshaft designs and balance will determeine how successful the engine will be.

Is the 555-557 cubic inch combo a good marine motor combo, you bet, why do you think Mercury Racing uses it on the 850, 1075 and 1200 HP combination engines!

Keep the ideas, opinions and discussion coming it benefits all our OSO family !!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar