Turbine Motors
 

I was going to post on Jassmans Diesel thread but didn't want to hijack it.

How much better are Turbine Motors now?
It seems from what I have been reading they are a lot better than just a few years ago. I know if you want to go real fast they are a good way to go but I have seen some in Big 50 60 70 100 foot Sport fishers now.
Are they better on gas than big 1500-2000 hp Diesels now ? Lighter ? less maint. ? I know they cost a bunch to fix if you have to pay for it but I do all my work myself and Have two guys working for me now that were in the army and thats all they did was fix turbine engines, they say with the stuff they see me fix now I won't have any problems fixing/ working on a Turbine motor, it will just take a while the first couple of times I am in there. Can a set of T53's be a good weekend boat motor ?.

Ok Ill try.


"How much better are Turbine Motors now?"
Boat Friendly Turbines are propshaft Turbines. These were
designed to run in Helicopters and the Technology dates
to the 1950,s. Hence T53 the year it was intraduced.

"Are they better on gas than big 1500-2000 hp Diesels now ? Lighter ? less maint."

The consumption of fuel at rated horsepower of a t53 l13b
is approx 180gph. Turbines Idle at 46 percent.
Lighter? 540lbs dry weight of a t53.
Less maintence? 3000 hour first Flight inspection for
avaition. This is a inspection.
500 hours first oil change.

"I know they cost a bunch to fix if you have to pay for it but I do all my work myself and Have two guys working for me now that were in the army and thats all they did was fix turbine engines"
Tell your Army friends to go back to the Army :D:D
You dont have to fix turbines.
Dont suck any Seaguls threw them and ya wont have to worry.
Its called F. O. D.
The other killer is Temperture. 75% of the air being fed threw
the turbine is used for cooling and seal pressure.
The other 25% is used to create the power.
Keep them cool and watch your pyros.

"Can a set of T53's be a good weekend boat motor "
A set of T53,s will most likley outlast the boat owners life span.:D



Hope this helps.

Yes the only time I hear my guys say anyting about how they fixed it it seems they were the reason why it was broke, or it sucked something up or had a bullet hole in it.

After watching Geico pull the motor and spend 28K on just the part that was damaged - I have a few questions about their operation in a salt environment. . .

also in a boat whats the chance of a hot start

I would be mostly in fresh water.
If one of the 3 motors in my boat now blew and was a total loss it would be more than 28k to replace it. My army guys seem to think with all the Military bases and airports around here with a little networking I should be able to get a ton of parts that you cant use in a Chopper anymore that are still fine for a boat. The big thing is sucking something up, I have yet to see a boat that you don't find a screw or nut or something in the bilge.

I would imagine that there is a LOT of custom stuff that you would need to make. Dealing with the hot exhaust for one!!

My impression would be that turbines are the way to go, if you can afford the initial costs. Keep in mind, that if you do ingest something into the compressor blades, that means a lot of $$. It is my experience with turbines that they are very clean and reliable. They're the easiest part for me to pre-flight.

I don't have to pay for gas, but I do know that fuel consumption is a huge consideration, especially for an offshore boat. The turbine idea is very efficient and very reliable.

Good luck

how loud are they? Is there any way to make them quiet and still get enough air?

Salt=bad news
 

A salt water environment is very destructive to turbine engines. You would have to do an engine wash after each run. Just talk to Navy mechanic and they'll tell you.

need earplugs
 

Turbine engines are very loud. Not much you can do about the noise except vector the exhaust. You may be able to insulate the engine compartment as long as there was plenty of fresh air going to the turbines. As previously mentioned, a majority of the air ingested into a turbine engine is utilized for cooling. They even have micro turbines for model aircraft and they are very loud themselves!

There was a guy on the Miami Show FPC Run that had them in his cat. I believe he told me that they had a water tank onboard so they could do compressor washes while running.

interesting
 

This is interesting, because I would think this would induce a flame out. Maybe not a full compressor wash, but I may be wrong. I know that our engine washes, it is imperative that no ignition occurs to prevent any damage.

On the same subject.
 

Here is Gerry's thread that address's a lot of these issues and adds info..
In case ya missed it.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...d.php?t=169351


You can see why he is known as KNOT RIGHT !:D



http://inlinethumb61.webshots.com/40...600x600Q85.jpg

Hmm let me see... All the coast guard helicopters are turbines
and operate above and in close proximity to salt water.
Lycombing actualy produced specfic components on T53,s
for the Navy for marine projects. Ex. Stainless comp. Housings. I know I have them. Hence the Term Marinized
Turbines.

A Turbine engine is far superior in design and construction
then any piston or deisel counter part period.
Its simple physics.
The next time you board a plane think of this.


Are you refering to the Geico video?
They over heat the Engine. They run on the edge all the time
constantly pushing it. Running into 100 foot roosters. Ask The throttle man or the navigator they will tell ya.
There Turbine builder even has a overtemp shut down. With a over ride button. Ask them if they ever push the override button.
They even mist water into the intake to try to keep it cooler.
Didnt this boat get TopDog in Biloxi?

Get this......... Turbines can run on Bio Deisel.

My compliments to all the hard work and R&D these inovators are doing. Kudos to there ability to think outside the box!

I gotta take a road trip up there one of these days and check out your setup !:D

In having a conversation with Two helicopter mechanics
in regards to how to wire my Voltage regulators.
We had a interesting conversation about washing the Turbines.
They have clients in the crop dusting buisness that use copters
for this. The material being sprayed is highly corrosive to the
engines and it actually gets injested.
They actually take a garden hose and at Ground idle spray
the Intake of the Turbine while its running.
I couldnt beleave it.

When is the last time ya seen a Helicopter fall
from the Sky from the rain?:D

If you go to someone like Arruda at Turbine marine, you'll end up with a nice turn-key package that will work well... but it will still have all the turbine shortcomings. Home-brewing a setup isn't so easy. I suppose if you had access to several people who had done it successfully and could walk you through their experiences, you'd have better odds.

Al Copeland watched while dogpaddling as his cat went up in flames. They didn't "engineer" the motor mounts properly and a broken housing allowed exhaust gas to blow-torch thru the bottom of the hull.

They're still loud, they're still fuel thirsty and they're still made for steady-state RPM operation. That's why in most large marine applications they're used in conjunction with diesels for maneuvering and low-speed operation. Solid, low-hour units are still very expensive.

Fresh charged batterys.

Turbines rely on air to cool when the Turbine fires it must
have enough air to cool the intial start.
When it first ignites the starter is providing the force spinnig the compressor blades providing this air. The slower the spin the less air.

Turbines have a start fuel solenoid and start fuel nozzles.
This is electricly activated.
Having this on a seperate switch and the ability to cut this
out early will drop the pyro almost instantly.

I've seen plenty of unlimited hydroplane races. When they get hammered with roostertail, that's it. Rain is one thing, but there's a bit of difference between mist and a mass of water. I'd like to watch while someone toses a 5 gal. bucket of water into the inlet of a turbine running at 100%... from a distance, of course.

The can mounts are what to use. Short for container.
They are what lycombing provides.
I assure you it is easier to rig then your piston counter part.
Pricing on two Turbines would be half the cost of two sterlings.
I am not refering to EBAY specials eithier.
How about two completely rebuilt with vibration analisys
and test cell sheets.

They are loud. I agree. But not really that louder then my
PSI 557,s were with 5 inch Stellings.

The bell housings crash boxes brakes are all available over the counter.
Exhaust gets a little custom its basicaly built for each application.

Beleave me I,m the biggest hack out there If I can do it
anyone can.

Have you seen the youtube video of the Turkey being thrown
through GE,s test Turbine.

Think about this it must pass and continue to run.
The next time your taking off in a plane watch out for
flying threw a flock of birds.

Check out this Superboat Turbine build.
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...d.php?t=116625

I've watched planes hit birds and fall from the sky- USAF.

Watched a T-38 on takeoff roll suck in a gull. Dropped like a rock. Since they were about to run out of runway, they tried to punch out- unsuccesfully. I was less than 1/2 mile away.

Turbines are wonderful devices but certainly not bulletproof or hassle-free.

what about the water cooled exhaust you see now. What affect does that have on the noise or anything? Warbird i believe was one of the first.

If I was to do it I would have one of the Marine Turbine Shops set it up the first time and I would just be doing the work from there on.

Agreed even the author of this post stated his Employees
worked on them when they took a bullet.:D

If you had him do it you wouldnt have to do anything else
other then fill it with fuel:cool-smiley-011:

Yes I have a freshwater system. We are using distilled water also.

It is basically a onboard 40 gallon poly tank It has electric
zone valves feeding a water pump. This water outlet of the
pump is directed into a spray bar which feeds the intake
the water.

I have a few questions. First, what about insurance? Does Markel still cover you? Second, we float around alot just hanging out. If we get close to shore, I fire one motor and back away. How long is the start process? If you start them say, 6 times a day, will you smoke your batterys? Cheaper than blower motors? Thats interesting........:party-smiley-004:

Good batterys are the key to cool starts. Most aircraft use ni-cads ,I feel they suck. ie battery overheat,memory,price ect.. Some aircraft operators use external power (if no apu) on all starts to ensure cooler start temps even if the battery is just fair. Doug

Starting power
 

John knows all the tricks, he has learned overt he years and maybe even the hard way a few times over. I worked with Carmen and Scott over at Turbine Marine 2 winters ago and they have all the systems running perfect including a 24 volt / 4 battery's per turbine and yes, a clean water flushing poly tank.....I would like to challenge anyone to beat them in the shop or on the water

I am running two series optimas.
The start process takes all of 20 seconds.
The voltage after start reads approx 22volts.
One flip of my start charge switch will bring that to
28 volts.

I also added a 24 volt parrel contactor which
Ties the other motors batteries together.
Kinda like the All position on ur battery switches.

6 times a day no problem. Its really the duration between
starts that could be a issue.

Its not about beating them its about doing it ur self!
Spend the least and get the most!

Yes................ What did the Discovery channel say " Howard Hughes of Turbines".
Gotta hand it to him hes got the spotlite.:D

Theres also MTT and Firestorm.
Who was the Turbine outfit that rigged Dave Scotts boat?

Here is the first actual startup of starboard.

Look closely you will see the flame that is when it is igniting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6-BuvVj8AY

If you listen closely you can actually here the N2 begin to start.
It kinda sounds like a second turbine begin to spool.

That's bad a$$

Its seems they number the compressor differently on the helicopter engines than the turbofans. On the fans the starter cranks the N2,the big fan is N1. On the Rolls RB211, crank N3, three spool engine. Most use air to start. Doug

Doug is that you standing infront of that jet engine in your Avitar?? Ya may wanna take a few steps away:D

Here is a nice picture of the t53L13b

[QUOTE=KNOT-RIGHT;2516208]Doug is that you standing infront of that jet engine in your Avitar?? Ya may wanna take a few steps away:D

Yup, Thats me, GE CF6 If somebody hit the starter I would have a few seconds to bolt. On average burns about 750 Gallons per hour. I'm a turbine fan,(pun intended) Nothing like hitting the starter then hearing the igniters snap and the smell of kerosene that I never get tired of. Knot you will like this pic.