National Champion ...legit?
08-25-2008 | 07:05 PM
#191
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From: Bradenton Florida
Isn't it more like women ?.................they talk alot but dont say anything ?!
Ok girls , just a joke .
08-25-2008 | 07:08 PM
#192
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From: Bradenton Florida
So I'm reading this and woundering if I got this right....
Where is the problem.....the topic is National Title legit....
There are 3 National Orgs.
All 3 have awarded Tiltes to boats with less then 5 boats in a class that raced for that title.....so if this is a problem or racers feel they are not legit titles, why don't the racers that think its wrong start with there own Org first....
For example.....at the OSS Worlds last year....how many class's were awarded titles with less then 5 boats
There were 9 class's I beleive: with a total of around 20 boats that attended there Worlds not counting POPRA which is not Spec racing.
OSS Cat
OSS Cat Extreme
OSS Cat Light
OSS Cat O/B
OSS Cat Supercharger
OSS Cat Turbine
OSS Vee
OSS Vee Light
OSS Vee Extreme
Which class's had over 4 boats in it.......will OSS not be awarding Titles to these Class's that don't have 5 or more boats this year to make a statement
Is spec racing fun...yes....is P-Class racing fun...yes....but if spec class racing is real racing.....where are all the boats....In P-Class we have the slowest boat in the class with the least amount of HP in Vee's, but I have had more deck to deck battles and yes at WOT then I have ever had in spec racing....we are always around the front and the only way we can get there is WOT....and on the edge....we will beat teams in our class and only see 93 as a top speed while teams behind us are seeing 94.6. But the questions has to be....why has spec racing not taken off like it did with APBA.....same concept...same racers... same rules...were is everyone.....there are over 115 racers registered for the 2008 season in the U.S......why is it that spec racing has not come back in the last 5 years.....and what is going to change tomorrow that will make it better that has not been tried over the last 5 years.....
If not giving out titles to teams that don't race against 5 boats is not fair or worth anything, then take it upon yourself to make an example out of it in your own Org first....
Busting on a rookie team who is spending a lot of money to go out and race in this economy and making 7 races during a year and who is having fun doing it should be busted on becasue no one else has shown up in his class is going to make our sport better.....its the rookie teams that make Offsore racing....lets not forget...everyone of us was one in the begining no matter how long you have been racing or have been involved in this sport....so if giving a rookie team this year in SBI/APBA a National Championship even though he may only race against 1 or 2 other boats or even just himself...so be it....if he is having fun and is proud of it....maybe he will just stick around and stay in this sport....and yes maybe even get into spec class racing one day..so spec racing can take off again
Where is the problem.....the topic is National Title legit....
There are 3 National Orgs.
All 3 have awarded Tiltes to boats with less then 5 boats in a class that raced for that title.....so if this is a problem or racers feel they are not legit titles, why don't the racers that think its wrong start with there own Org first....
For example.....at the OSS Worlds last year....how many class's were awarded titles with less then 5 boats
There were 9 class's I beleive: with a total of around 20 boats that attended there Worlds not counting POPRA which is not Spec racing.
OSS Cat
OSS Cat Extreme
OSS Cat Light
OSS Cat O/B
OSS Cat Supercharger
OSS Cat Turbine
OSS Vee
OSS Vee Light
OSS Vee Extreme
Which class's had over 4 boats in it.......will OSS not be awarding Titles to these Class's that don't have 5 or more boats this year to make a statement
Is spec racing fun...yes....is P-Class racing fun...yes....but if spec class racing is real racing.....where are all the boats....In P-Class we have the slowest boat in the class with the least amount of HP in Vee's, but I have had more deck to deck battles and yes at WOT then I have ever had in spec racing....we are always around the front and the only way we can get there is WOT....and on the edge....we will beat teams in our class and only see 93 as a top speed while teams behind us are seeing 94.6. But the questions has to be....why has spec racing not taken off like it did with APBA.....same concept...same racers... same rules...were is everyone.....there are over 115 racers registered for the 2008 season in the U.S......why is it that spec racing has not come back in the last 5 years.....and what is going to change tomorrow that will make it better that has not been tried over the last 5 years.....
If not giving out titles to teams that don't race against 5 boats is not fair or worth anything, then take it upon yourself to make an example out of it in your own Org first....
Busting on a rookie team who is spending a lot of money to go out and race in this economy and making 7 races during a year and who is having fun doing it should be busted on becasue no one else has shown up in his class is going to make our sport better.....its the rookie teams that make Offsore racing....lets not forget...everyone of us was one in the begining no matter how long you have been racing or have been involved in this sport....so if giving a rookie team this year in SBI/APBA a National Championship even though he may only race against 1 or 2 other boats or even just himself...so be it....if he is having fun and is proud of it....maybe he will just stick around and stay in this sport....and yes maybe even get into spec class racing one day..so spec racing can take off again
08-26-2008 | 09:58 AM
#193
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From: Va Beach, VA
DareDevil...Stick with it bud....and don't listen to the political BS....race and have fun....for what it cost to go out and race and put our lives on the line.....a title is the least we should get..... see ya soon....
Everyone here is intitle to a opion....and we can always find something to compare to years ago....but times have changed...and with all of the improvemnts that Offshore can make today to better the sport....there are hundreds of changes that need to be made to get this sport were it needs to be before talking away titles for low boat counts....
Everyone here is intitle to a opion....and we can always find something to compare to years ago....but times have changed...and with all of the improvemnts that Offshore can make today to better the sport....there are hundreds of changes that need to be made to get this sport were it needs to be before talking away titles for low boat counts....
Last edited by MANITIE; 08-26-2008 at 12:19 PM.
08-26-2008 | 10:21 AM
#194
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From: Naples , Ny
Do you honestly feel that if you show up to a race with any type of boat and the sanctioning body sticks you into a class and your the only one racing in the class you should win a national or world title and if you did (which many have) could you really look at yourself and say you earned it? I am all for fewer classes and build a boat to fit into one of the classes and not just showing up with anyold boat and racing . If you cant afford to race then watch or if you ran a few poker runs and now you think you can race dont show up in your poker run boat and get put into a class . build a boat to fit into one of the predetermined classes. You dont see guys showing up to nascar races with a mustang and say let me race make me a class.
08-26-2008 | 10:23 AM
#195
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From: Ft.Myers, Fl/ Atlanta, Ga/ Worldwide
Do you honestly feel that if you show up to a race with any type of boat and the sanctioning body sticks you into a class and your the only one racing in the class you should win a national or world title and if you did (which many have) could you really look at yourself and say you earned it? I am all for fewer classes and build a boat to fit into one of the classes and not just showing up with anyold boat and racing . If you cant afford to race then watch or if you ran a few poker runs and now you think you can race dont show up in your poker run boat and get put into a class . build a boat to fit into one of the predetermined classes. You dont see guys showing up to nascar races with a mustang and say let me race make me a class.
08-26-2008 | 11:23 AM
#196
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From: Va Beach, VA
Big Daddy.....but is this really the probelm in Offshore Racing...
Lets take you for example.:
you want to go racing...you have a limited budget and lets say you live in FL. and a ORG has 7 races in Fl. and it won't cost you a lot and you can still make it to work on Monday...
So you look at the rule book and you can buy a boat cheap and rig it to make it fit into say P-4....so you put a team together and you show up...and lets say the year before that P-4 had 5 boats in the class....but becasue of the economy and some other teams that raced last yer in your class can not this year....and you show up and your the only one in your class....and the Org said you can't race becasue no one else is here...or you can't win a championship....
There are over 8 P-4 boats reg. for 2008 but only you show up....Do you really think by not giving that team that busted its butt all winter should be pentilized will better the sport....
Maybe you have not followed Offshore racing...but we are trying to get more teams to come out....not deter them....and why do you care how a teams should feel about themselves....do you race....have you ever...if you did, you would see every time you go out there something could happen and you are risking your equipment and more importantly your life....but we do it becasue we love it....and its our choise.....and I can see you do not race...becasue you just can't be put into another class...your boat has to meet certain requirements....
But like I said....this is what you think is wrong with Offshore Racing....all we can do is build a boat for a class....it dose not happen over night...its takes mouths sometimes years....and when your done and you come out and no one shows...you should be penilize for no title....
We never want to tell a race team if you do not have the money to race in a class were there are more boats to sit out or do some poker runs....I don't care if a race team can only make 1 race a year...we want them out with us....
And Pete...this is were I'm confused...you support a Org that gives out championships and titles to teams with only one boat in it...or maybe 2.....
Lets take you for example.:
you want to go racing...you have a limited budget and lets say you live in FL. and a ORG has 7 races in Fl. and it won't cost you a lot and you can still make it to work on Monday...
So you look at the rule book and you can buy a boat cheap and rig it to make it fit into say P-4....so you put a team together and you show up...and lets say the year before that P-4 had 5 boats in the class....but becasue of the economy and some other teams that raced last yer in your class can not this year....and you show up and your the only one in your class....and the Org said you can't race becasue no one else is here...or you can't win a championship....
There are over 8 P-4 boats reg. for 2008 but only you show up....Do you really think by not giving that team that busted its butt all winter should be pentilized will better the sport....
Maybe you have not followed Offshore racing...but we are trying to get more teams to come out....not deter them....and why do you care how a teams should feel about themselves....do you race....have you ever...if you did, you would see every time you go out there something could happen and you are risking your equipment and more importantly your life....but we do it becasue we love it....and its our choise.....and I can see you do not race...becasue you just can't be put into another class...your boat has to meet certain requirements....
But like I said....this is what you think is wrong with Offshore Racing....all we can do is build a boat for a class....it dose not happen over night...its takes mouths sometimes years....and when your done and you come out and no one shows...you should be penilize for no title....
We never want to tell a race team if you do not have the money to race in a class were there are more boats to sit out or do some poker runs....I don't care if a race team can only make 1 race a year...we want them out with us....
And Pete...this is were I'm confused...you support a Org that gives out championships and titles to teams with only one boat in it...or maybe 2.....
Last edited by MANITIE; 08-26-2008 at 12:23 PM.
08-26-2008 | 12:35 PM
#197
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From: Naples , Ny
Big Daddy.....but is this really the probelm in Offshore Racing...
Lets take you for example.:
you want to go racing...you have a limited budget and lets say you live in FL. and a ORG has 7 races in Fl. and it won't cost you a lot and you can still make it to work on Monday...
So you look at the rule book and you can buy a boat cheap and rig it to make it fit into say P-4....so you put a team together and you show up...and lets say the year before that P-4 had 5 boats in the class....but becasue of the economy and some other teams that raced last yer in your class can not this year....and you show up and your the only one in your class....and the Org said you can't race becasue no one else is here...or you can't win a championship....
There are over 8 P-4 boats reg. for 2008 but only you show up....Do you really think by not giving that team that busted its butt all winter should be pentilized will better the sport....
Maybe you have not followed Offshore racing...but we are trying to get more teams to come out....not deter them....and why do you care how a teams should feel about themselves....do you race....have you ever...if you did, you would see every time you go out there something could happen and you are risking your equipment and more importantly your life....but we do it becasue we love it....and its our choise.....and I can see you do not race...becasue you just can't be put into another class...your boat has to meet certain requirements....
But like I said....this is what you think is wrong with Offshore Racing....all we can do is build a boat for a class....it dose not happen over night...its takes mouths sometimes years....and when your done and you come out and no one shows...you should be penilize for no title....
We never want to tell a race team if you do not have to money to race in a class were there are more boats to sit out or do some poker runs....I don't care if a race team can only make 1 race a year...we want them out with us....
And Pete...this is were I'm confused...you support a Org that gives out championships and titles to teams with only one boat in it...or maybe 2.....
Lets take you for example.:
you want to go racing...you have a limited budget and lets say you live in FL. and a ORG has 7 races in Fl. and it won't cost you a lot and you can still make it to work on Monday...
So you look at the rule book and you can buy a boat cheap and rig it to make it fit into say P-4....so you put a team together and you show up...and lets say the year before that P-4 had 5 boats in the class....but becasue of the economy and some other teams that raced last yer in your class can not this year....and you show up and your the only one in your class....and the Org said you can't race becasue no one else is here...or you can't win a championship....
There are over 8 P-4 boats reg. for 2008 but only you show up....Do you really think by not giving that team that busted its butt all winter should be pentilized will better the sport....
Maybe you have not followed Offshore racing...but we are trying to get more teams to come out....not deter them....and why do you care how a teams should feel about themselves....do you race....have you ever...if you did, you would see every time you go out there something could happen and you are risking your equipment and more importantly your life....but we do it becasue we love it....and its our choise.....and I can see you do not race...becasue you just can't be put into another class...your boat has to meet certain requirements....
But like I said....this is what you think is wrong with Offshore Racing....all we can do is build a boat for a class....it dose not happen over night...its takes mouths sometimes years....and when your done and you come out and no one shows...you should be penilize for no title....
We never want to tell a race team if you do not have to money to race in a class were there are more boats to sit out or do some poker runs....I don't care if a race team can only make 1 race a year...we want them out with us....
And Pete...this is were I'm confused...you support a Org that gives out championships and titles to teams with only one boat in it...or maybe 2.....
Every thing that your saying is exactly what is wrong with offshore . If you had read any of my past posts you would see that yess I have raced and part of the reason I got out is that I couldnt see the point of waisting my time and money to race against myself with no goal except to finish a race and come out alive at the end. What you are saying is I should be able to take my money and buy a boat and show up to a race and win a championship in lets just say "x" class just because i spent the money and showed up even though I raced against noone. This is whats messed up with the sport any joe blow off the street can show up to a race and get put in a class and call himself an offshore race boat driver. your comment about what if there were a few races around where I live and I could afford to boat together and race just because its close to home is exactly the the point Im against . If there were lets just say only 5 classes in offshore you would get more and better competion . You would be forced to build a boat to fit into a certain class . If you dont have the money to build a boat for a certain class than tough ....go poker running! With more and better competion you will bring in more fans and with fans will come more media coverage. Look at what little coverage offshore has right now when there is coverage you hardly ever see anything on P class racing .....why you ask its simple, little to no competion. I hate to keep using this annalogy but look at Nascar not everyone can start a team because only a select few can afford to and the ones who think they can end up with no sponsors and eventually have to get out because they just cant afford to compete. I dont think that the phrase "I think I can so I should try" needs to apply to offshore racing If you cant afford to build a boat to fit into a certain set of rules then you dont race!
08-26-2008 | 12:39 PM
#198
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Posts: 2,574
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From: Columbus,MI
Do you honestly feel that if you show up to a race with any type of boat and the sanctioning body sticks you into a class and your the only one racing in the class you should win a national or world title and if you did (which many have) could you really look at yourself and say you earned it? I am all for fewer classes and build a boat to fit into one of the classes and not just showing up with anyold boat and racing . If you cant afford to race then watch or if you ran a few poker runs and now you think you can race dont show up in your poker run boat and get put into a class . build a boat to fit into one of the predetermined classes. You dont see guys showing up to nascar races with a mustang and say let me race make me a class.
As far as a title meaning anything, who really cares. There is only one thing that bothers me with it.
1. Manufacturers that market as a "Champion" but are not CURRENT champions and/or don't disclosure when and what they won.
08-26-2008 | 01:23 PM
#199
Allergic to Nonsense
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,007
Likes: 21
From: Granite Quarry, NC
STOP RIGHT THERE!!!!!
That is the basis for most of the cockamamie rule changes in the past 30 years.........
"Oh poor me... boo hoo....I can't afford.....:
Canopies
props
booz
drives
a boat
booz
trailer
hotel bills
booz
fuel
team tee shirts
booz
my wife's boobs
life jackets
booz
engine rebuilds
food
gas
and , of course...booz
BUT...........
"I can't race in the outboard class because I want big loud big blocks."
"I can't race in a single engine class because I want a twin engine boat."
"I can't race in a carbureted spec class because I got a deal on some supercharged small blocks."
"I can't race in that class because I want diesel power."
"I can't race in Super Cat because I'm a big shot and want turbines...and besides this way I avoid having to race against JT."
"I can't race in Super Cat 750 because I'm a big shot and want 850's...and besides this way I avoid having to go against Steve Curtis."
"I can't race in Super Cat because I'm a big shot and want to race in "Extreme", (and avoid Stevie, and the Turbine, and Teague, and the Romans, and Ballough)
I can't race in Super Cat light because then I would have to go against Motley Crew and Amzoil.
I can't race in spec class because I want "deck to deck" racing with other guys who are locked at the same GPS speed that I am....forcing us into turn after turn together and giving none of us the simple safety flexibility of backing off the throttle if needed...... (Instead of being forced into the spectator fleet like a bunch of unguided missiles....see Patchogue last Sunday...)
I can't race in a professional class because I want to do stupid "wheelies" after my heat is over.
I can't race in any class because I lease a "lawn dart".
In truth many racers today.... "can't"....or "won't" race in any class that they might not win!!!!!!
The simple truth is that a spec single engine vee class and a spec twin engine cat class is plenty for everybody. Depending on your budget you can probably afford one or the other.
It means that you will actually have to race, and test, and setup for conditions just like every other motor racer on earth does. It means that when you win...you will actually have something worth crowing about...it also means that the majority of the competitors will NOT win....just like Olympic runners, gymnasts, and swimmers...and pro golfers.... and race car drivers.......and every other true sportsman.....
It also means that you will have a sport that other people, aside from your extended family and friends, will actually understand and get behind. These are called "fans"...and they attract "sponsors"...who pay for "television"....which attracts more "fans"...which attract more "sponsors"...which attracts better "television". As the guy who announced this sport for TV longer than anyone and...... on higher level networks....I can assure you that regardless of my "obsolescence" ....... bracket racing will not get this done.
"P" classes make sense as a start up series for future "pro" racers.... I get that...... But there is still far too many classes, far too many sanctioning bodies and far too much complication....
Until this is fixed....... the term 'World Champion" will remain meaningless in Offshore racing.
T2x
