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Purchase deal went wrong. Need Advice

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Old 03-19-2009, 12:37 PM
  #171
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Mike wrote:
At this time, i am going to looking into the machining the block work. Once i get a clear answer from the machining work, and if it was caused by the machine guy, i will call and wrote an apology to the seller Jeff. At this time, there is no fact's yet, just every ones opinion. I need facts and hard results. If there was nothing found that the machine guy had done wrong with machining the blocks, then we know he is not what everyone say's about him after all. We just have to wait and see the results. I will start looking into it next week or so.

Anything in regard of what I should be looking and checking as well while finding a different machine shop to look into the motors and try to figure out how or what made the cracks. I appreciate this information meanwhile.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:43 PM
  #172
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nevermind

Last edited by bustag; 03-19-2009 at 01:56 PM. Reason: re-read your other post. Corrected myself. oops
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:54 PM
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To quote the great actor Steven Segal:

"Assumptions are the mother of all **** ups"

and bustag's favorite:

"You see, this profession is filled to the brim with unrealistic motherf&^%$#s."

Maybe some more fact finding should have been done before dragging someones name throught the mud.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:57 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empire0007 View Post
Mike wrote:
At this time, i am going to looking into the machining the block work. Once i get a clear answer from the machining work, and if it was caused by the machine guy, i will call and wrote an apology to the seller Jeff. At this time, there is no fact's yet, just every ones opinion. I need facts and hard results. If there was nothing found that the machine guy had done wrong with machining the blocks, then we know he is not what everyone say's about him after all. We just have to wait and see the results. I will start looking into it next week or so.

Anything in regard of what I should be looking and checking as well while finding a different machine shop to look into the motors and try to figure out how or what made the cracks. I appreciate this information meanwhile.

Do you actually expect the machine shop to fess up if they are the cause of the problem? I highly doubt that is gonna happen.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:59 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by djkool99usa View Post
To quote the great actor Steven Segal:

"Assumptions are the mother of all **** ups"

and bustag's favorite:

"You see, this profession is filled to the brim with unrealistic motherf&^%$#s."

Maybe some more fact finding should have been done before dragging someones name throught the mud.
Samuel L. Jackson:

When you make an assumption you make an Ass of U and Umption.
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:24 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empire0007 View Post
Mike wrote:
At this time, i am going to looking into the machining the block work. Once i get a clear answer from the machining work, and if it was caused by the machine guy, i will call and wrote an apology to the seller Jeff. At this time, there is no fact's yet, just every ones opinion. I need facts and hard results. If there was nothing found that the machine guy had done wrong with machining the blocks, then we know he is not what everyone say's about him after all. We just have to wait and see the results. I will start looking into it next week or so.

Anything in regard of what I should be looking and checking as well while finding a different machine shop to look into the motors and try to figure out how or what made the cracks. I appreciate this information meanwhile.
Nobody is saying your machine guy doesn't know what he is doing!!!! I think the whole thing comes down to you have used motors that were getting down to the last stages of their life expectancy...you were lokking for a deal and you got what you paid for!!!!
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Old 03-19-2009, 01:44 PM
  #177
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If Paul Pfaff built your new motors, take the blocks and parts to him and get a good evaluation. Paul and Gordon are stand up knowledgeable and reliable marine performance engine builders and they are extremely honest as well. They might question finding cracks after boring in a thin wall block.

One of the problems I see here is that there might have been an expectation from the get go to buy 2 very high horsepower big inch extemely well equpped blower motors for $30K in the first place. Brings in the old saying that if you're going to get a lot of something for almost nothing there might be a problem in the first place!

Second, one should never buy sophisticated marine high horsepower engines without knowing the hours actually on the engines and if they have been sitting untested for a long while then a lot more investigation and survey is needed prior to buying! It sounds like these engines were built for maximum power and performance and engine life was possibly not the primary consideration when they were built.

Third: Good points here by some other posters that 588 inch big blocks are really at the top edge of bore diameter for a big power blower motor and taking them out larger in bore without magnafluxing and sonic scoping the block cylinder walls top to bottom prior to boring is a mistake! As for valve pitting and valve seat wear and bearing and ring wear it is to be expected after this type of high performance usage and could be a condtion that would exist in any moderate usage hour blower motor!

Unless these blocks were maganfluxed and sonic tested before boring and cracks were identified prior to boring the responsibility could be transfered back to your current machine shop as not proving their case for prior damage.

If these motors were sold with a stated warranty or condition guaranty they appear to be used engines that may have been considered "as is, where is" and it would be up to you as the buyer to determine there fitness prior to purchasing them. If they were warrantied or guaranteed then thats another case for internal condtion, however the finding of cracks after overboring could be your undoing.

Please understand as an engine builder and OSO'er I feel for your misfortune and that of the engine company who sold them to you, however I will always say that when you are going to purchase expensive marine performance engines for your new usage its always better genearally to start with new or freshly rebuilt engines and in this case that would seem to have been for a lot larger initial investment than you apparently paid.

I really hope you get your boat together with good engines and enjoy your performance boating expierence. I am not sure this is the place though to get involved with the legal aspects of this expierence and I am not sure legal action will be your best option for resolution. Law suits and lawyers are expensive and not always worth the investment.

In any event good luck to you and to all parties in this matter, I hope it will work itself out well for all.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:52 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empire0007 View Post
Mike wrote:
At this time, i am going to looking into the machining the block work. Once i get a clear answer from the machining work, and if it was caused by the machine guy, i will call and wrote an apology to the seller Jeff. At this time, there is no fact's yet, just every ones opinion. I need facts and hard results. If there was nothing found that the machine guy had done wrong with machining the blocks, then we know he is not what everyone say's about him after all. We just have to wait and see the results. I will start looking into it next week or so.

Anything in regard of what I should be looking and checking as well while finding a different machine shop to look into the motors and try to figure out how or what made the cracks. I appreciate this information meanwhile.
Knowing that Jeff is the stand up guy that he is, I would believe that he would accept your apology. It takes a pretty big guy to stand back and look at what has happened after some of the initial emotion is taken out, and see that there was no intent to "take" anybody.

I would also suggest that you ask the OSO moderator to delete this entire thread so that it does not continue to cast bad light on either one of you.

I wish you the best of luck with your boating this summer!
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:16 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raylar View Post
If Paul Pfaff built your new motors, take the blocks and parts to him and get a good evaluation. Paul and Gordon are stand up knowledgeable and reliable marine performance engine builders and they are extremely honest as well. They might question finding cracks after boring in a thin wall block.

One of the problems I see here is that there might have been an expectation from the get go to buy 2 very high horsepower big inch extemely well equpped blower motors for $30K in the first place. Brings in the old saying that if you're going to get a lot of something for almost nothing there might be a problem in the first place!

Second, one should never buy sophisticated marine high horsepower engines without knowing the hours actually on the engines and if they have been sitting untested for a long while then a lot more investigation and survey is needed prior to buying! It sounds like these engines were built for maximum power and performance and engine life was possibly not the primary consideration when they were built.

Third: Good points here by some other posters that 588 inch big blocks are really at the top edge of bore diameter for a big power blower motor and taking them out larger in bore without magnafluxing and sonic scoping the block cylinder walls top to bottom prior to boring is a mistake! As for valve pitting and valve seat wear and bearing and ring wear it is to be expected after this type of high performance usage and could be a condtion that would exist in any moderate usage hour blower motor!

Unless these blocks were maganfluxed and sonic tested before boring and cracks were identified prior to boring the responsibility could be transfered back to your current machine shop as not proving their case for prior damage.

If these motors were sold with a stated warranty or condition guaranty they appear to be used engines that may have been considered "as is, where is" and it would be up to you as the buyer to determine there fitness prior to purchasing them. If they were warrantied or guaranteed then thats another case for internal condtion, however the finding of cracks after overboring could be your undoing.

Please understand as an engine builder and OSO'er I feel for your misfortune and that of the engine company who sold them to you, however I will always say that when you are going to purchase expensive marine performance engines for your new usage its always better genearally to start with new or freshly rebuilt engines and in this case that would seem to have been for a lot larger initial investment than you apparently paid.

I really hope you get your boat together with good engines and enjoy your performance boating expierence. I am not sure this is the place though to get involved with the legal aspects of this expierence and I am not sure legal action will be your best option for resolution. Law suits and lawyers are expensive and not always worth the investment.

In any event good luck to you and to all parties in this matter, I hope it will work itself out well for all.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
This statement is why we allow Ray @ Raylar to be here.
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Old 03-19-2009, 05:40 PM
  #180
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OK Empire, Here is the problem I and most of the others on this board are having. Your direct quote is
"At this time, there is no fact's yet, just every ones opinion
is ".
This is an admission that you came on here Mother F'in the seller and you don't know the facts. I think you owe him an apology ASAP, mistakes were made and this can all be over.

case closed and I'll buy the first round in St Pete this weekend
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