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BIG Time motor problem ...any ideas ?????

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Old 07-30-2009, 03:48 PM
  #141
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[QUOTE=RunninHotRacing158;2921516]
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Originally Posted by 40FlatDeck View Post

1. Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!


Absolutely positivily BIG Daddy on the morning of June 22 Larry returned my call from his answ machine of 06/ 21 and if i had a tape recorder it would say 4000 rpm is the worse rpm that is max torque and maybe the methanol should come on at 4 lbs of boost,send the motors back to me and I will REDESIGN the pistons and have to start over again ...... were you there for this phone call ????
So basically it is a he said -she said thing, and of course it goes down EXACTLY how you say it does....

Ha, ha, I think Gary was right, go get a canoe......
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:58 PM
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[QUOTE=40FlatDeck;2921489]
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Originally Posted by RunninHotRacing158 View Post


Bill, I was staying out of it until you quoted me. I stand behind that PM to you 1000%

It is tough to get into an argument with you because you lie, plain and simple. I'm going to go through a few things and after that I am done.

1. Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!
3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.
4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....
5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!
6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks.......

And Bill, in one of Gary's last posts, he simply said you were in contact with Larry to get a bill paid and you said you would as soon as your wife got back in town. He was NO WAY attacking your wife......

I'm sure you are going to tear apart my post piece by piece and type some more sh*t that nobody can understand, that's fine. Anybody else who questions Larry's ability to build motors, come on over to the west coast, we have a couple Skaters you can run........matter a fact, we are bringing one out to you at Lotto.
Let me make it easier 4 ya
It is tough to get into an argument with you because you lie, plain and simple. I'm going to go through a few things and after that I am done.

Careful about accusing someone of lying in writing in a public forum. You are not quoting “he said she said” third party stuff- you are calling people liars.



Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
Please- if you were not there to overhear the conversation- don’t comment on it. Nobody except for two people was present. “He said she said”.
Things are said in off handed conversations that are not said in court.


2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!

a. Regardless of writing or not writing a program- other dyno operators will sweep and hold loads in order to obtain information. It does not appear that that was done in this instance. Or do you have information noting otherwise?

b. IF it was only timing- why did the motors get shipped with 34 degrees of timing with e-mails that state to pull back to 32 degrees? Then why is it 27 deg now?

c. The fuel curve was changed- no matter how you cut it up. The motor ran for 200+hrs before. The compression was raised and airflow increased. The carbs were leaned.

d. The 02 values are for WOT not part throttle- therefore the 02 values have not bearing on this event.


3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.

a. “Everyone knows” is an ignorant statement. Bernoulli’s principle – is what? Every pilot knows what that is – but not everybody in the population.

b. I believe the point of Bill’s statements about the heads are more on the line of – “wish I didn’t have these things”. The responses just reinforce the maintenance issue.


4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....

a. That Skater ran 147 @6000 (35’s) the fall before – on the last day of boating- on smooth water in a river that has turns and 1 mile straights…..

b. The compression numbers were down and the hours were known to be long.


5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!

a. There is that “he said she said” thing again.

b. Assuming “implied” occurred--- What did the builder imply should be the life of the motors? 50hrs? 100hrs? Certainly not 4hrs. And I certainly doubt “zero hours”- no warranty implied whatsoever. Do you have some other information?

c. And while I was not there – no “he said she said” – I would think that anybody spending this amount of money would ask the basic question-“How long will they last or should they last? – What would you reasonably expect after this expenditure?
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:02 PM
  #143
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a. There is that “he said she said” thing again.

b. Assuming “implied” occurred--- What did the builder imply should be the life of the motors? 50hrs? 100hrs? Certainly not 4hrs. And I certainly doubt “zero hours”- no warranty implied whatsoever. Do you have some other information?

c. And while I was not there – no “he said she said” – I would think that anybody spending this amount of money would ask the basic question-“How long will they last or should they last? – What would you reasonably expect after this expenditure?


6. I have to question your ability period if you went through 4 or 5 trannys in the span of a few weeks.......

a. Personal attacks don’t solve any problem unless you are merely trying to elevate your position at the expense of others.



And Bill, in one of Gary's last posts, he simply said you were in contact with Larry to get a bill paid and you said you would as soon as your wife got back in town. He was NO WAY attacking your wife......

a. Read the post- punctuation was questionable – which could lead to some interpretation. Read what you write, mean what you say, do as you say.



I'm sure you are going to tear apart my post piece by piece and type some more sh*t that nobody can understand, that's fine. Anybody else who questions Larry's ability to build motors, come on over to the west coast, we have a couple Skaters you can run........matter a fact, we are bringing one out to you at Lotto.[/QUOTE]



a. The response was made to your supplied facts. Facts were brought to the table including hard numbers- if you need them explained more fully I will be happy to oblige. The facts where presented for you and the builder (which I believe you are a part owner) to dispute. You have not disputed one of those facts.

b. Quite simply – I personally think Larry builds a very good motor and is tremendously knowledgeable- I do not believe Bill has said Larry is incompetent in any form.

c. Competency and business ethics are two different issues- competency relies on facts and ethics revolve around a moral center.

d. An Emotional statement--- Let’s take a show of hands of readers who feel it is acceptable to have a set of motors last 4hrs…. This is not drag racing. In a normal world the average person would be upset.

e. If the builder chooses not to warranty their work in any form (Bill wanted the parts replaced and would pay for the labor) then they must be prepared for the consequences of their decision- Including forum responses like this.

f. The builder has chosen to not take any responsibility. It is his choice – any impact implied or real on your business is part of that decision. Once the decision is made it is a waste of time to complain about the actions you understood would take place. Responsibility- something not well understood in today’s world.



In the end any project of this magnitude (any project)- should have clear concise goals and results. Responsibility and warranty (if any). The most basic parameters were not fully addressed in this project. As the business owner he has the clear responsibility to address those items to protect himself and the client. Clients do not have the same responsibility.



I am not sure why you have taken such a stand – what is the cost to the builder? What is the cost to Bill? Time, labor, materials, loss of season….



Answer the simple questions:

1) Why did the motors fail at minimal boost?

2) Why was the timing set so high?

3) Why wasn’t the fuel curve reviewed for full operating range?

4) Why were there no warnings – on the contract/bill- noting to stay away from certain load points?



But these questions have no bearing. Your facility has chosen a path of action. Don’t be so upset with your decision.
















Last edited by RunninHotRacing163.1; 07-30-2009 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:05 PM
  #144
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[QUOTE=RunninHotRacing158;2921712]
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Originally Posted by 40FlatDeck View Post

Let me make it easier 4 ya
It is tough to get into an argument with you because you lie, plain and simple. I'm going to go through a few things and after that I am done.

Careful about accusing someone of lying in writing in a public forum. You are not quoting “he said she said” third party stuff- you are calling people liars.



Never, ever, did Larry tell you to, "send them back and I will re-engineer the pistons". Never!
Please- if you were not there to overhear the conversation- don’t comment on it. Nobody except for two people was present. “He said she said”.
Things are said in off handed conversations that are not said in court.


2. I believe in one of your last posts you said you wanted Larry to tune for mid range cruising but he couldn't because he would, "have to write a whole new program". Program??? There is no program!!! It's a dyno and you aren't fuel injected!!

a. Regardless of writing or not writing a program- other dyno operators will sweep and hold loads in order to obtain information. It does not appear that that was done in this instance. Or do you have information noting otherwise?

b. IF it was only timing- why did the motors get shipped with 34 degrees of timing with e-mails that state to pull back to 32 degrees? Then why is it 27 deg now?

c. The fuel curve was changed- no matter how you cut it up. The motor ran for 200+hrs before. The compression was raised and airflow increased. The carbs were leaned.

d. The 02 values are for WOT not part throttle- therefore the 02 values have not bearing on this event.


3. Please don't say you had no idea about the Big Chief heads. EVERYONE knows they require more up keep than standard heads, so please, don't play dumb.

a. “Everyone knows” is an ignorant statement. Bernoulli’s principle – is what? Every pilot knows what that is – but not everybody in the population.

b. I believe the point of Bill’s statements about the heads are more on the line of – “wish I didn’t have these things”. The responses just reinforce the maintenance issue.


4. Every time I see you type, "I could have stayed with the last motors and been happy". Bill, you couldn't break 130, that's why you wanted your motors done in the first place. If your 40 Skater couldn't break 130, you had some issues....

a. That Skater ran 147 @6000 (35’s) the fall before – on the last day of boating- on smooth water in a river that has turns and 1 mile straights…..

b. The compression numbers were down and the hours were known to be long.


5. Larry has no idea where you keep saying 200hrs on the motors??? No way in hell would he tell you 1300+hp blower motors on pump gas are gonna last 200 hours!!!

a. There is that “he said she said” thing again.

b. Assuming “implied” occurred--- What did the builder imply should be the life of the motors? 50hrs? 100hrs? Certainly not 4hrs. And I certainly doubt “zero hours”- no warranty implied whatsoever. Do you have some other information?

c. And while I was not there – no “he said she said” – I would think that anybody spending this amount of money would ask the basic question-“How long will they last or should they last? – What would you reasonably expect after this expenditure?
Kinda funny that you have to have someone else write this stuff for you....

And to make it clear, I have no ownership in Larry's Engine and Marine.

Last edited by 40FlatDeck; 07-30-2009 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:24 PM
  #145
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[QUOTE=40FlatDeck;2921704]
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Originally Posted by RunninHotRacing158 View Post

So basically it is a he said -she said thing, and of course it goes down EXACTLY how you say it does....

Ha, ha, I think Gary was right, go get a canoe......
No he said /she said BIG Daddy ALL FACTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lets hear some answers to the meltdown you want to talk chit about BIG CHIEF heads only problem is the heads were'nt the problem and would still be doing fine if the timing was at 27 and a lil more fuel per LARRY ,, your a gear head remember .... Ohhhhh Ohhhhh blood pressure is rising now





Yes and prolly GARY IS RIGHT remind me next time i see him to BOW
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:25 PM
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Yes you can sure tell it is not bill writing the rebuttal-no misspellings and legaleze type responses.
Remember the quote from Forest Gump-"..stupid is as stupid does".
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:27 PM
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[QUOTE=40FlatDeck;2921716]
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Originally Posted by RunninHotRacing158 View Post

Kinda funny that you have to have someone else right this stuff for you....

And to make it clear, I have no ownership in Larry's Engine and Marine.
Yeah its all funny aint it , Lets hear some answers instead of BIG CHIEF heads are high maintenance

Waiting ................
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:36 PM
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Yes you can sure tell it is not bill writing the rebuttal-no misspellings and legaleze type responses.
Remember the quote from Forest Gump-"..stupid is as stupid does".
You know they do make SPELL CHECK ....... C'mon now Bro
Thats the best you can come up with from cheerleader class
What happen CAT got your tongue BIG Daddy NO
ANSWERS yet ??? or ya still thinkin



Cant help ya with your Bro Forest Gunk , must be your GERITOL era



A least your POST count is going up .........

Last edited by RunninHotRacing163.1; 07-30-2009 at 05:36 PM. Reason: Spelign
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:44 PM
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[QUOTE=RunninHotRacing158;2921733]
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Originally Posted by 40FlatDeck View Post

No he said /she said BIG Daddy ALL FACTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lets hear some answers to the meltdown you want to talk chit about BIG CHIEF heads only problem is the heads were'nt the problem and would still be doing fine if the timing was at 27 and a lil more fuel per LARRY ,, your a gear head remember .... Ohhhhh Ohhhhh blood pressure is rising now





Yes and prolly GARY IS RIGHT remind me next time i see him to BOW
Blood pressure is rising?????

You forget, my motors still run great.........yours are the ones that don't.
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Old 07-30-2009, 04:45 PM
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Your post says " Big time motor problems, any ideas" The simple answer is throw all of that stuff in the garbage and build some motors with conventional heads that run on pump gas. There are sveral reputable builders doing this everyday that will give a one year warranty on a 1200 HP 5.0 Liter whippled motor with fuel injection set up to run on 91 octane. What did you think you were getting into with big chief heads and all this BS of mixing methanol and water with 110 octane racing fuel. Who needs all that BS when you pulll up to the pump.

This stuff is supposed to be fun.
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