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BIG Time motor problem ...any ideas ?????

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Old 07-28-2009, 09:55 PM
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Sorry to hear this, Bill. Hope you can get some resolution from that pos. Good luck.
Resolution .... mmmmmm
thanks Jay
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:55 PM
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Seriously, read some of the threads involving Eddie Youngs motors and rigging. I have seen where he has gone out of his way to help in these kind of situations

here is his site http://www.youngperformancemarine.com/

skater thread http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ter-399-v.html

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Old 07-28-2009, 09:58 PM
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Man that sucks bro, sorry to hear.

Maybe I'm alone on this, but whenever I see a shop with the name like "and marine" like Acme Speed and Marine, or any variation of, I steer clear. IMO, there are too many 'car guys' with car knowledge in those places that forget ( or dont even know ! ) that marine stuff is different and only added the "and marine" part in hopes of broader sales and $$$ but knowing jack-sh/t about it.

Best of luck moving forward Bill.
Never thought of it that way Bro,thanks again and wont ever send motors 2000 miles away again ...what a lesson i learned
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:02 PM
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Here it is in a nutshell .........
So i send 2 perfect running BBC 588s / BIG CHIEF head motors to Tucson to be re-freshed for the 2009 boating season in November , still leaked down good just wanted more power ... After inspection im informed that they are the best in BIG CHIEF heads & motors and we should bore the block ,new pistons,rings,oilers, bronze bushings, oversized lifters, we need a Larrys Competition Big Chief stage 3 port job with titanim valves,porting & flowing ,new springs,pushrods,rockers, the works .. I say no problem do what you have to do im looking for reliable turn key motors dyno them , ship them back and we'll dress them and re-install ... So the build is on and things are progressing thru the holiday season with the regular phone calls that u need oversize pushrods NO PROBLEM, u needs bronze bushings and oversize 903 lifters NO PROBLEM,u need piston oilers NO PROBLEM,u need coated pistons NO PROBLEM,u need casidium wrist pins NO PROBLEM , so on with the build ..... fast forward 1 st motor built and dyno'd short on power so i buy 1671s from them and pay for the machine & adapt work to make the 1671s fit my motor ...NO PROBLEM motors leave and come back to Illinois and i get an email not to run the motors at the 34 degrees timing back them down to 32 degrees .... fast forward motors are in boat i get an email make sure fuel pressure is at 6 lbs and methenol set at 6 lbs ....and were testing and watching oil pressure/temp water temp/pressure and we break 4 transmissions in the process after # 5 we take her to the Kentucky poker run June 20 and at 4000 rpm 90 mph we PUKE 2 motors and get towed in ... I call the engine builder and he sayz send them back and i have to REDESIGN the pistons and start over again ...I said no way ... So the motors get dropped off locally instead of 2000 miles away and talking to the builder i'm understanding he's sending pistons, rings, gaskets , and im paying the labor,dyno, and all head repairs .... On July 24 i recieve a bill for 4K for the parts and it gets better after putting 1 motor together the compression is 9.2 - 1 not the 8.8 that the motor was suppose to be ... So now i get an email from Tucson that says do not set the timing above 27 degrees this time around BIG CHIEF heads dont like alot of timing .... ????? So we go from these motors will be good for 200 hours ,change oil every 10 hours, and adjust valve train every 30 hours to 2 toasted motors & a lost boating season .... WTF So lets hear it guys
Well bill if you really want to hear it-i suggest you go get a couple of vicodin and a bottle of grey goose.
These motors were dynoed on a 50-50 mix of water and methanol.I have read the feb 27 email the engine builder (Larry)sent you and it specifally said you were responsible to run the correct mixture and to turn on the switch which you were responsible to program to turm on at 6 psi of boost.
The part you left of in your post is that you admitted to screwing up to several people and trying to save the meth (with no water mixed in)so you could run another skater at the kentucky poker run.You did 3 things wrong-#1 you forgot that cruising at 90 with 6 people and a full load of pump gas,even if you say it was 5 psi will spike up to as much as 10 psi when you make slight turns .Remember i had the exact same bottom on the old predator and the boat is stuck in the water ploying and loading the motors at 90-it doesnt break loose till 100 mph.#2-you were conserving your methanol and did not turn the switch on.#3 straight methanol will lean out the motor (especially when it was tuned on a 50-50 mix of water) and raise the exhaust temps.
The heads left larrys shop at 98 cc which coupled with the 40 cc dished pistons and the thickness ot the head gaskets gave it a 8.8 compression.The detonation that happened to your pistons also hurt the heads.The shop you sent them to welded them up then milled them 18 thousands-they just were not instructed by you to open up the chambers-which you can still do.The heads now are at 95 cc.
Never ever did larry ever talk to you about providing you free parts.On july 24 when they called you about paying the bill,your excuse was that your wife was out of town and would handel it when she gets back-no surprise out of your lips-just excuses.
You have had i shop hone the block,another fix the heads,another do the assembly and another order the parts.
You are right about one thing thou-your boating season is over and you are soley at fault.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamie B. View Post
Man that sucks bro, sorry to hear.

Maybe I'm alone on this, but whenever I see a shop with the name like "and marine" like Acme Speed and Marine, or any variation of, I steer clear. IMO, there are too many 'car guys' with car knowledge in those places that forget ( or dont even know ! ) that marine stuff is different and only added the "and marine" part in hopes of broader sales and $$$ but knowing jack-sh/t about it.

Best of luck moving forward Bill.
Well thats harsh Ive been profiled!!!
We owned a certified Mercury Marine Racing Dealer and where we are located now we do a lot of stock car motors and GEE WIZZ Our Name is Ozark Speed and Marine???? We do way more boats than cars!!!
Sorry Bill Small hijack had to respond to jibber like that
Call me at the shop in am.
Back to the program
Thumper
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:13 PM
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Do not assume the smaller jets are the issue. You are using methanol injection which requires smaller jets. I had to go down 10 jet sizes to get the EGT and O2 even close to normal when the meth kicked in. I also run 32 degrees timing and also have a 16:71 blower. I would lean towards the higher compression problem and running the engine at 4000 rpm for an extended period of time. That is the lean spot for me also as it just before the meth comes on. The engines have no load cruising at 90 mph as I am running less than 1/2 throttle causing the engines to go lean as the hull is aired out. I tend to up and down in speed rather than stay at one constant lean spot. I am really sorry to hear of your boat issues this year.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:13 PM
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That really sux Big Daddy!!! Hope you get it straightened out and salvage part of your summer.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:16 PM
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Well thats harsh Ive been profiled!!!
We owned a certified Mercury Marine Racing Dealer and where we are located now we do a lot of stock car motors and GEE WIZZ Our Name is Ozark Speed and Marine???? We do way more boats than cars!!!
Its nothing personal, its just the way I feel based on personal and others experiences in similar situations.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:22 PM
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Well bill if you really want to hear it-i suggest you go get a couple of vicodin and a bottle of grey goose.
These motors were dynoed on a 50-50 mix of water and methanol.I have read the feb 27 email the engine builder (Larry)sent you and it specifally said you were responsible to run the correct mixture and to turn on the switch which you were responsible to program to turm on at 6 psi of boost.
The part you left of in your post is that you admitted to screwing up to several people and trying to save the meth (with no water mixed in)so you could run another skater at the kentucky poker run.You did 3 things wrong-#1 you forgot that cruising at 90 with 6 people and a full load of pump gas,even if you say it was 5 psi will spike up to as much as 10 psi when you make slight turns .Remember i had the exact same bottom on the old predator and the boat is stuck in the water ploying and loading the motors at 90-it doesnt break loose till 100 mph.#2-you were conserving your methanol and did not turn the switch on.#3 straight methanol will lean out the motor (especially when it was tuned on a 50-50 mix of water) and raise the exhaust temps.
The heads left larrys shop at 98 cc which coupled with the 40 cc dished pistons and the thickness ot the head gaskets gave it a 8.8 compression.The detonation that happened to your pistons also hurt the heads.The shop you sent them to welded them up then milled them 18 thousands-they just were not instructed by you to open up the chambers-which you can still do.The heads now are at 95 cc.
Never ever did larry ever talk to you about providing you free parts.On july 24 when they called you about paying the bill,your excuse was that your wife was out of town and would handel it when she gets back-no surprise out of your lips-just excuses.
You have had i shop hone the block,another fix the heads,another do the assembly and another order the parts.
You are right about one thing thou-your boating season is over and you are soley at fault.
You stand corrected BIG Daddy the boat had a 50/50 mix and there is no switch for Meth comes on at 6 lbs as instructed by builder ... saving meth ???? mmmmm if its mixed together in the same tank DUH .... And the timing ???? motor was ran at 34 degrees and now i have an email that says 26 degrees for BIG CHIEF heads mmm .. Larry told me motors were run on the dyno and ran 3000-7000 rpm pulls & i asked him if he held them at 4000 or 4500 rpm cruising speed and he said NO i would have to write a program for the dyno to do that ..And dont know where your getting your info but the BIG CHIEF HEADS have never been welded on or milled 18 thousanths ................. No excuses and Larry was paid every penny .... and J/Off as far as if my wife was out of town last friday due to her mothers 2 nd stroke aint none of your friggin business so leave her out of it and you can remember to tell me that one face to face ... love to discuss it with you

And just for the record is is it so wrong to have awell known head guy (Jim Valako) repair the heads ,and a machine shop hone the blocks, and a shop of my choice assemble the motors ???? OK Your right buckwheat I would want my concrete man to hang my 60 k Cherry Cabinets in my Kitchen

I knew the LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE cheerleader would show up

Last edited by RunninHotRacing163.1; 07-29-2009 at 11:25 AM. Reason: pic download
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:24 PM
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Its nothing personal, its just the way I feel based on personal and others experiences in similar situations.
Ok Thanks and well I do agree to a point about the engines being different, Machine and set up for the specific use it seems to work out better that way.
But did you ever think that it could be the other way around a shop does both and dosent want to exclude any clients so have both in the name. Food for thought. that's why we named it that way.
Sorry Bill
Carry on
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