RUNNINGHOT's EVIL ENGINE BUILDER SPEAKS
 

It has never been our policy to get involved in these posts but I feel compelled to bring a few facts to light. Reputable custom engine builders that have been in business for any length of time can relate to the fact that there are customers that are a pleasure to work with, that work closely with the engine builder for the success of their projects and listen to and follow instructions in the correct operation of the engine built for their particular application. They also know when a customer sends in an existing engine that it may or may not have the parts they would normally pick had they had the option to start from scratch. They also know that there are customers that don't listen, hear what they want to hear, fabricate events that never took place and are impossible to make happy no matter the effort put forth. Customers that make them wonder "what was I thinking" when they agreed to do the project in the first place. I have been in business for 35 years and have to say I have had mostly pleasant experiences and positive results and a few absolute nightmares as customers. This is certainly one of the nightmares. I could go on and on listing dates, times, etc. of documented emails and phone calls but that would be ridiculous, unprofessional, and extremely time consuming considering the vast amounts of postings and emails that now fill two large notebooks.
At the beginning of this project, as is customary, a projected estimate of costs was supplied. This estimate was per engine and has a note that specifically states the total is for the itemized items and does not include any items, if any, added as the project progressed. This estimate included .903 lifters, piston oilers, .120 wall pushrods, coated custom J-E pistons, casidium pins, etc., etc., and were not "added on".
The work was started only after the initial deposit was received giving the o.k. to begin the project.
The heads were 98cc, 41cc dish in piston, .051 gaskets, and .005 deck clearance when finished.
The flow figures were supplied and a knowledgeable person owning a flow bench and familiar with porting knows that numbers vary bench to bench and porting huge numbers into a set of heads does not necessarily produce the best power in the end project.
I have installed five water/meth systems and when operated properly are reliable and can provide a good safety net against detonation. But the key words here are OPERATED PROPERLY. The engines were tested for a total ot 7 days on the dyno with straight water, water/meth, straight meth, and race gas and in varying amounts. We found the lowest EGT, best air/fuel ratios, and lowest innercooler discharge temperatures with a 50/50 water/meth mix. Straight meth was not good. Conversations, emails, and posts admit that the system was off entirely when the engines were damaged and that when the system was run, on several occasions straight meth was used. I spoke with Rudy on numerous occasions regarding the system setup to try to avert any potential disasters in light of the fact that the customer did not seem to fully understand its use and importance. I charged for only 2 days of dyno time because that is what I quoted for. The additional work was to make every effort to ensure the success of the project, especially in light of the fact they were shipping out of state and I would not be there to do the initial adjustments that are most often required once installed in the boat.
Our dyno is a Superflow SF901 and engines such as these are tested at steady state rpms as well since this is how they are most often operated. Printouts are not produced for this testing, only the standard dyno pulls at 300 rpm per second. I have logged thousands of miles of seat times in these boats and have strived to simulate the loads seen in the boat on the dyno. I personally test every engine we build, rest assured, part throttle load testing was done in this case, as with all we build. Although this type of testing does not generate a printout it is not necessary. Usually these part throttle loads have somewhat rich air/fuel ratios and such was the case with these engines.
The engines are built, not even shipped and then the trouble starts. There are reasons that some drugs are not meant to be mixed with alcohol. Complaints usch as but not limited to:
**Having to pay for shipping crates, although he could have sent his engines in crates large enough to return 2 complete supercharged engines in or arranged for pickup. Many if not most of our clients come from all over the country, and some from out of the country, to watch their engines on the dyno and take them home. **We didn't ship his old superchargers Pickup and shipping arrangements were all made from his end using his Fed Ex account. This was supposed to save him money but delayed the shipping for days waiting for shipping labels that never showed up. Finally shipped out on our UPS account just to get them where they were supposed to go. The cost was the same to him. **Damaged oil tube when the engines arrive. They were mounted on his cradles and not what I would have preferred to use but unfortunately sometimes things do get damaged in shipment. I had Eickert send a replacement but it was not the correct length. I offered to machine one expedited at no charge. Apparently it was much more gratifying to post as the victim than accept free help repairing the tube. The number of emails sent offering to take care of this is ridiculous, but all that was written in the posts was how the engine builder wouldn't help period and seemed to missing entirely. **Allegedly the tuneup was wrong. Everything was set on the dyno but his emails state he thought the engines loped too much. They are 16-71 superchargers and once "the kids" started changing everything they didn't have a clue how to get back to square one. At this point we had to request all communications be done by email only so that my recommendations would be in writing and could be referenced back to. Again the posts never mentioned any of this, only that the engine builder is missing in action and could care less.
At the conclusion of the project, and before the engines were installed , dyno sheets, build sheets, cam cards, etc. were provided along with instructions as to the operation of the water/meth system, timing, boost, water pressure, etc. This is one email date I will mention. On February 23rd at 12:30pm I sent an email that spells out the correct operating parameters and what his responsibilites were. This email I'm sure will never show up in its entirety anywhere on this site because it also spells out our effort to repair the oil tube, the blower situation, our desire to communicate by email to avoid his confusion, and our continuing desire despite all of the slanderous postings that his project be successful. if anyone would like me to forward this email I would be more than happy to oblige.
So he gets the tube fixed, gets the tune-up back to where it's supposed to be, and posts as much slanderous, fictitious stuff as he can come up with. Amazing! Another victim of the crazed engine builder! You gotta watch out for those guys!
Support was offered via email after the engines were installed and up until his decisionwas made to [B]turn off the water/meth[B] things were progressing well according to his emails, claiming 145+ at part throttle. I don't spend much time on this site but I'm sure there weren't many posts during this time since there was not money owed.
The engines were damaged due to the his own admission of turning the water/meth off for pure conservation purposes. He had a big race later, was using up too much meth and didn't want to run out before then. Pictures were sent and posted showing detonation damage to the heads and pistons. Emails and posts were sent stating the heads were being welded and machined. Detonation damage caused by incorrect operation is not covered on any type of warranty that I am aware of.
Friendly emails are suddenly showing up daily re-
questing help to fix this mess. Suddenly we have a nice guy. Wants to make sure I have a good weekend, a good vacation, everything went o.k. at the doctors today. Wow! He needs pistons, the same as the last ones., rings, gaskets, casidium pins (not sure why on the pins), valves. Then things are not moving fast enough where he has the engine. New email wants to know if he can load it all up and bring it to Tucson and he can stay in a hotel while we put them together? Not fast enough for him. Last I heard he pulled everything from the last builder (lucky guy) and is looking for another engine builder to victimize.
Now he has the parts (less the last set of pistons) and it's time to pay for the damage he's done. Emails shows up wanting to know if our wire transfer info is still the same. His wife is out of town but he'll send this over to her and she'll take care of it. Suddenly the nice guy is gone, the friendly emails stop, and the ugly posts show up again. Now his posts say he shouldn't have to pay! Was he willing to pay until his wife saw the invoice or is he trying to get something for free? Thsi is the reason correspondence was done by email. Documentation !!
Now that it's time to pay allegedly everthing done was wrong from the beginning. Allegedly the piston design, allegedly the compression, allegedly the tune-up, allegedly I said they would last 200 hours (Never would I say that!), allegedly I changed my mind on the timing and when the water/meth should come on, allegedly I shouldn't have used his Big Chief heads (would he have spent more money?), and allegedly I was going to pay for the parts. And that I allegedly even admitted to all this. Amazing!! I didn't detonate them! So on, and on, and on.
We are a eight person shop , building and rebuilding 150 to 175 engines per year, half being high preformance marine engines, most supercharged, along with installation and rigging. We also provide component repair, custom machining, i.e. cylinder heads, block, rotating assemblies, EFI tuning, carburetor modifications and calibration.
I would be very interested to hear from more of the engine builders, boat builders, transmission builders, vendors, etc.,
other than the ones that I've already spoken to, that have had experience with this particular customer. Posting your comments is not necessary, unless you feel compelled to, a phone call or email is fine. For any business owner that has not had the displeasure of the experience, do yourself a favor, steer clear, avoid, and beware!
Larry Peto
The Evil Toy Maker

:party-smiley-004:

RHP (Runnin Hot Plot) thickens.........

:poopoo:

Larry's definately one of the good guys. He went out of his way for me a couple times and hadnt even built what i brought him to recalibrate.Its sad to see him have to come on here and feel the need to defend himself.All you have to do is have one conversation with him and you can tell he knows whats what.You dont stay in business that long buy screwing stuff up. His reputation in these parts speaks volumes.

Jesse

RHR138 has told several people that he had the meth off thus the reason why he torched the pistons and heads.
This is all about the $3,000 bill for the parts that he doesnt want to pay,so he has decided to drag a reputible engine builder thru the mud.The best thing he can do is accept that offer on his boat as is -and go get a canoe.

I am glad to see the builder come on here and respond. Certainly gives some insight as to the whole situation. Like I said previously, this sucks for everyone involved.

:nhl_fight:

Running Hot Racing, for the record, I sympathize for your engine problems. I have empathy for anyone and everyone that has an unexpected interruption in life.

You have made contribution to this web site, regardless of how your presentation is received, from time to time, you have made contribution.

Let it be known, I pride myself as being sincere, honest and credit worthy as I know possible.

Your extensive engine thread has posts that require clarification,
My post # 81, was not intended to offend you or mitigate the failure in any way. You and I had amicably spoken on the phone enough that it seemed appropriate to offer a bit of humor to a serious subject.

Your post #82 was logical and well received.

My post # 85 was "LOL" or "Lots of luck" and said without malice.

Your post # 86 has me seriously misquoted. (It is understood the tools of this web site can create such activity. But, it is something few literate persons would engage.)

You reference my ethics regarding Leon D, please bring that person here to explain. Subject to, if I owe anyone something, let it be heard.

Post # 88 was not made by myself, from this computer or anyone else here. Please look at my post ledger: It will be seen that "LOL" was redundant to post #85. However,both post #85 and #88 state the same number of views and posts with a substantial time difference. Perhaps the only Authority that has access to those controls is a Moderator. Moderator, please research and report your findings.

Mr. Peto, Thank you for presenting the facts as stated. This industry has and is suffering and in my opinion, deserves cohesion when possible.

:cuqui::picard1:

I see this is fixing to get badddddddddddddddddd

always 2 sides in a story. both together makes 1 ...

both persons are right at some point, and both may be wrong also... life is not always easy I guess!

Most of the time LOL is taken as "lots of laughs" or "laughing out loud"- never heard it used as "lots of luck" but guess it could be.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lol

Rock ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Actually, there's usually three sides to every story;

1) My side
2) Your Side
3) The Truth

Like you said, the story is usually seen a little different by each person due to their perspective. Hope this gets worked out.

Good to see that you still have a sense of Humour.

Obviously the issue is more complicated than originally posted

So then there are 4 sides
1 My side
2 Your side
3 The Truth
4 The Judge's decision ?:eek:

Good to see you on here Larry, wish it was under better circumstances.
Ken Kirkaldy

Surprised Runninhot hasn't weighed in here.

This is the funniest post yet!!!!!:bsflag:

:eek:

This is for the 1,000’s of boat people out there who have followed this link.

All business owners/sales people/engineers/tradesman who read this can all agree that the “good, the bad and the ugly exist”. I have close connections with an attorney and they state the single biggest issue in court that exists is “he said she said”. Bottom line is getting it in writing.

The builder’s response brings this project back to the true beginning:

Several builders and options where reviewed before these motors left Chicago. The motors were running pieces with no mechanical issues other than low compression test values and potentially- as dyno’d- low dyno numbers. Yes the boat did run 147mph on its last running day before tear down.

This builder was identified through this site. I personally think this builder is highly competent and to all of those out there backing him—good you should. I personally did not choose him- not due to competency questions but simply “Distance”. I like builders and shops that I can walk into and look in the face and ask the questions. Call it personal preference. I also liked other combinations- cams, head guys etc… And in defense of the builder there are many ways to produce this motor and meet the horsepower goals. Getting two competent builders to agree an all items- line item by line item- would be like sending a hundred woman into a store with a 1000 purses and asking them to choose one. But- in the end it is the choice of the guy with the check book.

Now – back to the facts. I contacted this builder at the request of Runnin Hot to review the project and review his responses. While I am not the caliber of builders listed in these pages- my experience level is higher than some (how about a 557inch bow tie in 1987 – on the street and one year later in a boat).

While the builder had the right “answers” the right suggestions- one subject that was covered with him was – Runnin Hot and how to deal with Runnin Hot.

Runnin Hot is a perfectionist. Quite simply nearly anal as compared to most of us on what we consider “right/adequate” . I made that clear as a bell – restating it and restating it to the builder before the project started. I noted to him that Runnin Hot’s engine compartment floor is cleaner than most peoples house floor. When I work on his boat one of his kids pretty well follows me with paper towels and 409. I also know Runnin Hot not cheap when it comes to money. I know him to be true to their word- personally and in business. Yes – he is a very successful business man- a service business - which must mean he must be doing what he says he will do. I also told the builder in question that some builders and sellers in the past had not been as forthcoming ($$$ growing) as they should and that Runnin Hot was now gun shy of builders- to be careful.

My solution- a contract.



I had sent the builder a contract for him to complete and sign. It was to list all goods and services to be supplied and rendered.



Potentially start before thanksgiving

Heads must start making power by 4000rpm and pull through 7200rpm.
Extended run periods. Cam will be matched to your work.
Any additions to the above that requires $$ above the agreed to work needs written communication and agreement.


Larry's Engine and Marine has indicated experience and the knowledge to perform the agreed to task.

This is a piece of it. Other parts include hard parts, labor, and issues to be determined….



The builder did not want to fill this out – I think uncomfortable would describe the issue.

I made a second call to the builder to make it clear that this was not a document to make the project hard it was protecting Runnin Hot and the builder himself.

I sent this 3x’s asking the builder to fill it out and sign it. In truth Runnin Hot asked me to back off the builder that I would upset him. He was defending the builder. I backed off as requested.

But – the builder did send one of these back filled out. Essentially completing/agreeing to the verbage noted here. If you read even the short piece of the contract – the basics of the project are laid out.

He was told that Runnin Hot was a perfectionist. He was told how to deal with him. The builder chose not to follow the suggested course.

Runnin Hot later defended the builder – defending the tuning of the motor when it was realized that the carbs fuel curve had been changed- by a lot. The dyno time, money spent- “How can there be an issue?”

Runnin Hot was in the builder’s corner the whole time – the builder supplied his required parts, the dyno, the tune….. Other competent people’s opinions were put to the side in favor of the builders.



There are some very specific questions/queries that have not been answered by the builder from earlier e-mails- specific motor questions that have not been addressed.



Not getting into the crate, oil tubes, carbs… The morning of the run: Runnin Hot called me with a question of “what type of water to run” (could not find distilled that am) with the Methanol. Why would he do that if one he was going to run straight Methanol and two was not going to run it?



When the motors failed and the first parts started to arrive as replacements- I asked Runnin Hot who was paying for the parts- Runnin Hot said the builder. The builder was going to take care of the parts and Runnin Hot was going to take care of the labor. At least in Runnin Hot’s mind – things were going to move forward.

Until a $4000 bill arrived. Things went wrong then. How many of you would not “have something” go wrong then?
The builder has chosen to put the issue on Runnin Hot:

1) What would the cost have been for the builder to make sure the “system” was right?

2) Why is that not in writing?

3) For the builder this is over $4000. For Runnin Hot it is $$$$$ a lesson learned and a lost season.

4) Why is the timing changing?



As a note answering specifics from the builders response –

1) Some of the wrist pins had turned blue, the bottoms of the pistons were black and the piston manufacturer said throw all of the pistons in the garbage they had failed under the conditions. Was this damage the lack of Methanol only?

2) A 9:1 motor should not burn down at less than 5lbs of boost or less. The letter infers that all of your motors need the Methanol at 6lbs boost or more…

3) Supply the post that indicates the switches were turned off. :kiss:

4) How did you do a part throttle test – did you reset the Methanol to come on at ……??? :eek:

5) The carbs- either the new needles, idle screws where thrown on, the carbs sabotaged or something- the units were unbelievably out of adjustment. Also I believe the builder noted that the motors idled at 1500rpm- about right for a system that is flooding.

6) Detonation should be covered if the timing is not right and the fuel is not right: Who set those?

a. With the heat the pistons bottoms received and the heat the wrist pins received- what about pre-ignition??

7) Pistons- yes the current configuration produced by the builder is unique as compared to others who have quoted this job or added their opinion. Did not say wrong- just different. :coolcowboy:

The preponderance of responsibility lies with the business owner –not the client. That is also in court not just in this forum.



But – for all of you out there- it does not matter if it is $500 or $80,000. Contract. Contract. Contract.

How much, not to exceed, no additional, goals (speeds, cruising speeds upper and lower, rpm limits), who has responsibility and accepted responsibility, exceptions…



Several supporting documents lie in a software format and can not be transferred here including the contract.



To the builder- you were told how to proceed – you chose not to. This does not make Runnin Hot a liar, fibber, story maker. If he was the expert that you are he would not send you the motors in the first place (preponderance again). Bringing on the methanol earlier is a band aid. Actually – it probably would not have saved the motor for the record. Your business is going to continue doing well- you can use the pistons in the next build- you have only lost minutes of time on this site.

Some mistakes exist here- But again the preponderance of the issue lies where?

But lesson “learned” for all those involved and have followed this.

Runnin Hot will be running in a few weeks. No melt downs – I promise.

How much, not to exceed, no additional, goals (speeds, cruising speeds upper and lower, rpm limits), who has responsibility and accepted responsibility, exceptions…

In WRITING.

LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE Shipping a motor with bolts missing out of the engine stand .... but it was my engine cradles fault even though Larrys Fabricated & modified and got PAID IN FULL :drink:

BUT my cradles were at fault ?????????C'mon now a 2000 mile ride home on a semi and we dont need bolts ???????:angry-smiley-038:
P.S. I had it made right and paid for it out of my pocket and did'nt cost LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE 1 penny :eek:

Here is there reply from Tuscon Ariz ....................


Come on bro.......

I agree shipping the motor with one bolt was wrong, I would be pissed too. And your right, Larry is responsible for his employees. Whoever did it made a mistake, plain and simple, but they are making it right.


But please don't come on here and say things like "I wonder if there are rod bolts missing too" Those are rock solid motors, 110% better than what they were. You brought them tired, mismatched motors, that you were not happy with......so please don't say you should have left them in there. I don't think you would be happy with a boat that didn't break 140....

I recommended them to you because they are one of the best at setting up what you have, a Skater that now has big power.

I'm sorry the shipping problem happened, but they are making it right. Be patient, put the motors in, and get ready to enjoy a 160+ Skater.....

Erik

I have ran motors at high boost and have had my mixture of methanol and water run out. I still did not have any detonation. I would think you would really have to have other problems to destroy an engine that quick with such low boost.

I would think you would really have to have other problems to destroy an engine that quick with such low boost:eek:

BINGO !!!!!!!!!!!!! step to the front of the line ........ I have heard that very same thing more then a dozen Xs in the last month from other bldrs & gearheads .....:drink:

Maybe your other engine builder/helper will come along and wow us with a another post trying to make us think he represents you legally......:lolhit:

Lets look at the email that you so easliy edited....just a piece that you left out....

[B]From: Larrys Engine
Sent: 2/23/2009
To: Runninhot[B]

"I talked to Rudy about resetting your turn on point to 6psi. In my experience a blower motor in this application will not survive on pump has without the meth/water system. It is your responsibility to make sure your meth/water system is operating correctly and be used the way it is designed to be used."

In the same email, Larry responds to you crying about him not inspecting your blowers........

"In regards to your blowers: You stated at the beginning of this project that the blowers were 1471's and had been gone through already and were in good shape. We had no reason to doubt you. I wouldn't think you would have needed the blowers checked out since you already stated you had that done."
.................................................. .................................................. .......................
Anyway, you keep saying they melted down at 5lbs of boost. Keeping with the theme of he said/she said, are we supposed to believe that you kept them exactly at that boost level??? Anybody who runs a big cat knows boost will rarely stay put, as motors load and unload from turning, etc.

I just don't believe for one minute that you stayed at exactly one speed and exactly one boost level.....with your system turned off.

Again, I'm sure you will come back with posts that nobody can read, edited emails, etc, etc......maybe your lawyer will join us again!!!!!!!!!

C'mon now quit dodging the questions ..... How many BIG CHIEF HEAD motors leave LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE at 34 degrees timing ????? and why would LARRYS say now that the motors need timing at 27 degrees no more then 28 DEGREES .. ????? same motor, same heads , whats with the new 27 degree timing that changed since the build ... mmmm Blow up a few more maybe ????


Just for the Record ERIK since your motors are the same Block,pistons, heads built by LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE what is the TIMING set at on your BIG CHIEF HEAD MOTORS that you only run on 100 Octane AV GAS ???? mmm 34 Degrees ??? Tell the truth and dont forget you faxed me the dyno sheets with timing,fuel,jets,air bleeds ......

Spit it out BIG Daddy :angry-smiley-038::evilb:

I never faxed you a thing numb nuts.:lolhit:

Cool..... lets see the dyno sheet. I want to compare it to mine...:drink:

1st thing to go is your memory BIG Daddy :eek:


But anyway answer the question ???? cant be that hard .. you knew all the answers when you talk to potential customers and you blow smoke up there azz...... then i'll attach your dyno sheets and we'll see the LIAR in you .....:evilb:


Just for the Record ERIK since your motors are the same Block,pistons, heads built by LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE what is the TIMING set at on your BIG CHIEF HEAD MOTORS that you only run on 100 Octane AV GAS ???? mmm 34 Degrees ??? Tell the truth and dont forget you faxed me the dyno sheets with timing,fuel,jets,air bleeds ......




And heres another one for you to answer So LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE in Tuscon just could'nt wait to finish this build this winter and sever all ties with RHR , but after the june 22 phone call from Larry @ LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE and he was taking care of pistons ,gaskets,rings, and i was eating the head repair work, rebuilds & re-dyno charges in Waukegan and he would ship all parts there , why in the world on July 14 at 3.05 would STepanie tell me i am responsable for the wrist pins and call Chuck at procision products in N/C and give him the part # ,CC# , and he'll ship them right out ?????? If Larrys was charging me for pistons,rings,gaskets, would'nt they just add the Casidium wrist pins to the Tab they had running for me ??? after all they do sell parts right ???
This will go unanswered like the rest of the questions ....

If anything at least your post count is going up :kiss:

Lets try this one .......BIG Daddy
Mr. 40 Skater/Flatdeck/Erik



I have not attacked Larry in any form. In fact I have complemented Larry at several points.

You attack Runnin Hot and now attack me.

Why do you have such a hard time staying on message versus personal attacks? Are you a politician or a news media person?



You and Bill have essentially identical motors from what I understand. Instead of literally not addressing any question presented to the builder- how about providing an answer to some questions- since your opinion is Runnin Hot is an idiot and- well you think something of me: Please provide this audience a piece of your knowledge and experience. You are in a position to ‘teach” us all something- step up to the plate:



1) What is your timing?

2) Is your cam advanced, neutral, retarded?

3) Your final compression ratio?

4) Why do you run aviation fuel? Is it easy to fill your boat because you have access to it or do you run it for the octane value?

5) Your peak boost values?

6) Jetting- primary and secondary. Air bleed values. PV values.

7) Methanol/ Water injection- ratios to gas? Trigger points? Variable?

8) Why is your tune different than Runnin Hots?



Even if we start with these simple components- you will most likely not answer any of them since you have not answered anything to date. You know that the motors that you and Bill have are nearly identical mechanically- you also know that the tune is different. (You see I even repeated it twice just for you)



What I am is not your concern and certainly not your place to make comments about me. But- I will say this- this is a “walk in the park/brain dead issue” compared to most daily issues I deal with.



You started the “complex” response – the first long page. I just thought I was responding in a language you understood. You have noted that my responses are hard to understand or can’t read them- You are either avoiding answering the questions and or countering hard facts with hard facts- or as you note you can’t understand them or read them. Which one of those three options is it?



For the record – I did tone them down- just to make sure you could understand them- at least I thought I did. Wow.

For the record, if you would read my whole post, the last sentence was aimed at RHR, not you.

Sometimes RHR's posts are hard to understand. I don't think I'm alone in this one.

Why would I tell you everything about my motors??? I will tell you that I run AV Gas. Pump gas is of horrible quality, burns dirty, and will lose octane in as fast as 3 days. Bill should know about pump gas, you know, the same gas that he stores at the shop for 13 months. The same gas that he blamed for blowing up some bikes of his.........WAIT!!!! I got it!!!!!!!!! Maybe he used the same gas for his boat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

Better yet, do you have a boat like this??? Do you know what it takes to run a boat like this???? Sorry, I haven't seen a picture of your big cat???? Maybe you can dumb those pics down a bit so I can see what the expert drives.......:lolhit:

Still waiting for the dyno sheet for comparison LOL LOL

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO ANSWER THE FRIGGIN QUESTION ???? Your the A-hole that brought a Knife to a gunfight .....
I guess you have all the answers Larry /ERIK except these ...:eek: And now your engines are a secret recipe ???? U must have forgot LARRYS dont roll like that :coolcowboy:


Quit Dickin aroung and spill the beans ...:bigbird:

C'mon now quit dodging the questions ..... How many BIG CHIEF HEAD motors leave LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE at 34 degrees timing ????? and why would LARRYS say now that the motors need timing at 27 degrees no more then 28 DEGREES .. ????? same motor, same heads , whats with the new 27 degree timing that changed since the build ... mmmm Blow up a few more maybe ????


Just for the Record ERIK since your motors are the same Block,pistons, heads built by LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE what is the TIMING set at on your BIG CHIEF HEAD MOTORS that you only run on 100 Octane AV GAS ???? mmm 34 Degrees ??? Tell the truth and dont forget you faxed me the dyno sheets with timing,fuel,jets,air bleeds ......

Spit it out BIG Daddy

U R running out of excuses & scenarios

1 st 100 % METH
2nd saving METH
3rd switches were off and u have witnesses:eek:
4th my children changed the tune
5th used old gas
6th to follow after ERIK puts the Hookah pipe down :grinser010:

Just so I understand.... Bill is RHR? Or this user name is a group of people? Damn I am confused:lolhit:

But anyway answer the question ???? cant be that hard .. you knew all the answers when you talk to potential customers and you blow smoke up there azz...... then i'll attach your dyno sheets and we'll see the LIAR in you .....


Just for the Record ERIK since your motors are the same Block,pistons, heads built by LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE what is the TIMING set at on your BIG CHIEF HEAD MOTORS that you only run on 100 Octane AV GAS ???? mmm 34 Degrees ??? Tell the truth and dont forget you faxed me the dyno sheets with timing,fuel,jets,air bleeds ......

Whats the timing at ??? ------- lets hear it so the OSO audience can see what a bunch of LIARS in Tuscon @ LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE .... So you B!@tches started a thread on Saturday night and wanted my response and now no response to the Harsh allegations made from your side ....

Bill should know about pump gas, you know, the same gas that he stores at the shop for 13 months. The same gas that he blamed for blowing up some bikes of his.........WAIT!!!! I got it!!!!!!!!! Maybe he used the same gas for his boat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

OLD GAS !!!!! :eek:Absolutely you know everything how about this ....... I'll prove how full of chit you are ERIK :bsflag:....
I will produce reciepts from June 20th at 7.00 a.m the day of the meltdown from Loves gas station US Hwy 62 & I-24 in KY and LARRYSENGINE & MARINE cuts a check to an OSO childrens charity $$$ 5,000.00 :drink: If i dont have/produce the reciepts on OSO i will cut the check ..... LETS GET IT ON!!!

Now shake hands and come out fighting :angry-smiley-038:

If he only Knew???:cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer::cheer:

l love how I am getting under your skin......:drink:

I have dyno sheets with pulls at 30, 32,34 degrees....is that gonna help you, Pump Gas Bill???

As far as the old gas comment, I was referring to an old post you made awhile back.........you know, the same way you reference old posts. I don't doubt you went all out and got some new pump gas......

You better spend more time working on those motors than posting. Your buddy, the one who dumbs down posts for me:grinser010:, said you will have your boat back running in a couple weeks.

Better get busy..........:lolhit:

You better spend more time working on those motors than posting. Your buddy, the one who dumbs down posts for me:grinser010:, said you will have your boat back running in a couple weeks.

Sorry BIG Daddy dont want to dissapoint but im not an engine bldr & so need for me to work on these motors just Pinky to write the check ...:drink: may want to get your work done (star witness) so you can spend some time down here at the Daley Center :kiss:


As far as the old gas comment :bsflag:??? Old post had nothing to do with LARRYS ENGINE & MARINE so dont back down & wuzzy out ... $$$ 5000.00 to an OSO charity would put smiles on a lot of kidz faces ...:eek:

Is anyone else confused here? :party-smiley-004:

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Lets not get this kicked to the UC section yet.....:cool-smiley-027::ernaehrung004::ernaehrung004:

This is a Family channel :eek: