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must be confidence in the product.
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I'm sorry, but I dont qet the comparison. A Ferrari and a Hyundi both roll down the road, but that does not make them comparable !
You obviously purchased the thunder becouse it was approximatly half the price of the Cigarette. If you make a price purchase- call it that, and nothing more ! If you think for one moment these two boats are in the same league I believe you need an education in boat manufacturing. Think about 30 years of breaking things and making them better vs about 5 years. Congradulations on your purchase and I hope you have many hours of enjoyment on it.:rolleyes: |
Boscoe, you are not familiar with todays powerboats are you?
it basicallygoes as follows: Outerlimits Cigarette Active Thunder Apache Pantera Sunsation |
Gee,
Decades of refinement ! :D |
Too Old, Thanks I didn't know Pantera offered a LIFETIME warranty on theirs hulls. That makes two manufacturers, is their anybody else that is that confident in their product. I've got a bunch of degrees hanging on the wall, but none in boat building so I would be interested in the education also.
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Some try, some fail...Success comes from those with knowledge (or the money to pay for it).
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Hey Screamin, you know who Bosco is, don't you ?:D
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Bosco, I'm not saying Cig isn't a great product, because it is. But the comment you made about years of refinement makes it sound like the longer your in business the better you are! Well, everyday I see old companies that have been around for years, fail and go out of business, because they have failed to adapt and change to the needs of the market and it's customers. I also see young companies blossoming because they have learned quickly to meet the needs of the customers with new technology etc. So older isn't always better.
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Bosco
I don’t know where any of you guys come up with these comparisons. I do own a Ferrari and I do not see the comparison with any of these boats and a Ferrari. Let’s face it, these are hand laid up fiberglass hulls with big block GM motors. Hardly the stock that is bred from formula 1 racing. More like NASCAR. Most of the boats have Mercury power and drives. The majority of hardware is aftermarket, and they all use most of the same manufactures. That leaves the hull and assembly. I have been to most of the factories. I have also seen how Cigarette and Active Thunder are built. I have owned a Cigarette and they are built quite well, but I think the Active Thunder is more high tech. They also use all composite materials in their construction of the hull more like a Ferrari. I don’t believe Ferrari is using wood any longer. Again my decision was based on ride performance not cost. |
Hey Skypirate, I was looking at a Ferrari. But after all the test drives, you know, looking at acceleration, cornering, braking and top speed, I chose the F350. Call me crazy...............oh did I forget to mention all of these test were towing a 10,000 lb boat.:D :D :D
By the way you're right, Ferrari does not use wood any more.:D :D I hope you enjoy your new boat. It certainly has brought up some interesting threads here on OSO.:cool: |
Let's think about this...
Originally posted by Bosco If you think for one moment these two boats are in the same league I believe you need an education in boat manufacturing. Think about 30 years of breaking things and making them better vs about 5 years. I'm always in for furthering my education. Hell, I'm damn near 40 and just started going back to school last semester. So, If Bosco can open my eyes to newer/better ways, I'm in. Now, I also agree with Bosco in that 30 years of breaking things has to teach you something. If anything else, how to break things really good. ;) Obviously he assumes that there was some experience gained by Cigarette from all those broken boats, (that doesn't sound good, does it?). Anyway, I would agree with Bosco that 30 years of experience is probably better than 5 years. The one detail that Bosco didn't consider is that the folks working at Active Thunder didn't just walk in green when the doors opened in Pompano Beach. In fact, when I was at the AT plant last week, I had a long conversation with the gentleman who does most of the glass work. This guy was involved with racing and race boats back when Betty Cook was spankin the big dawgs. This ole boy has the knowledge and experience that defines the deference between an average recreation boat assembly plant and a top of the line custom performance boat manufacturer. His experience includes THE top names in high end performance boats, and some of the winningest teams in offshore racing. In other words, He's been there to see the "decades of refinement". And Active Thunder is taking full advantage of that. So Bosco, the way I see it, Skypirate didn't give a rats ass about brand name, or what any given name has done in the past. It also sounds like the man can write a check for anything he cares to buy, (which disgusts me ;) ), so pricetag don't mean squat. It came down to buying a boat that rides on a name and a great heritage, or buying a boat that is making a name for itself now and building its own heritage. |
Hey Boscoe, (POWERPLAY)---I find it funny how you can come on the board and try and slam one of your competors. Active Thunder has been kickin your ass, because they know what it takes to be a winner in the market place. I would have bought your 33 back in 96, and possibly your 38 now, but Your still back in the 80s technology, You need to get a clue, to whats going on, other than when you quoted me 9 mos. ago...QUOTE: Hey I'm Powerplay and Cigarette and Active Thunder are'nt in my leage and Outerlimits is a close second. That is where you lost all your credability, AGAIN , not only with me, along with the lost sales that A.T> has picked up. YOUR USED CAR GREASY SALESMEN TECHNIQUES, DON'T FLY ANYMORE.
Instead of worring about what A.T. is doing, why don't you anwser some of the QUESTIONS that possible prospects have been asking on your PP board, it speculates something is wrong, 94 mph w/twinn 725 Cobra's on your new 38, what smart ass designed that bottom, (Oh ya, I know it was overpropped, Oh ya, the motor blew, tell us another one) . Why don't you take care of your own problems first, and get some of these year old plus customers their boats:p It would be nice to hear from customers positive things to say about PowerPlay like they did 10 years ago vs the steadfast decline and negativity that has become a common word with the attitude of the company, along with the length of time frame it takes to get a boat. Most of us hope you get your stuff together, for competive reasons, you are more of man admitting your mistakes, its funny how things could turn around, good luck to you:) |
Bosco works for Powerplay???
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built model years:1995-1996-1997-1998-1999-2000-2001-2002-2003.
sounds like more than 5 years to me. :confused: |
Gordo, your comments are correct for a company that has been under the same management and has the same work force for those 30 years with smooth transitions in power. Now I am not a Cig expert but haven't there been several owners over the last 30 years with some of the transitions due to bankruptcy.
I think they are great boats with more heritage than most, but those 30 years have been filled with transitions, some pleasant, some not so pleasant. To say their current expertise in boat building is far superior to another is over looking turn over in ownership and manpower which is where the real expertise resides. |
Warrior,
Your point is right on, I stand corrected.
Although I believe a couple of the Cigarette people have been there for a while. Not to take anything away from Neal. I think Neal is a great guy and damn good at what he does, but I don't think he's been building boats for 30 years. |
Bosco,
I am still waiting for my return call on my three previous attempts to get information on your 38. :rolleyes: That is something to roll your eyes about. I have to ask why you post the things that you do. I have been in business for myself for 9 years, and one thing that I know is when my competition bad mouths my company it is for one reason, and one reason only, they are SCARED. Business 101 you DO NOT BAD MOUTH your competion. I am surprised that after 30 years in business you (powerplay) have not learned this basic rule.:confused: Again, I wish you the best of luck and Powerplay.:) :) |
wow, this guy bosco has a lot to learn!
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looks like you guys shut him down!
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Screamin,
I doubt it. He was just probably not on the board over the weekend. :) |
Temper - Temper,
I dont remember saying anything bad about active thunder. That was an assumtion on someone elses part. I simply drew an anology, that does not make hyundi a bad motor car. Only one thats half the price of a Lexus, and do you see there advertising. Why spend 30k when you can get away with only 15k. I have many times lauded pats efforts at active thunder, and still believe they do a good job. However, I do not agree with a comparison to a product like Cigarette. No one needs to get angry, I am voicing my opinion just like so many of you have. As far as the dig about composit manufacturing, Powerplay has been out in the forefront. All the boats are vaccum bagged core of an inch in thickness. They use pure vinylester resin, and the most advanced Knytex nit laminants. All boats spend 2 weeks while being molded. 160 man hours go into bonding the components together as one piece prior to rigging. Why, you ask do they still use lumber in there transom and stringers? Becouse about 10 years ago they built race boats with foam, and they simply would not hold up. Simply put, all the fasteners used on motor mounts and transom assemblies would wollow out and parts would become mis-aligned and break. You see, the space between the cells on even the most dense foams is air that eventually breaks down. Good lumber holds better becouse of the chris cross of grain as well as the fibrous nature of a tree. Of course the boys racing in F2 on a thunder know all about this as I have seen there boat in the shop getting re-aligned a few times in Pompano. :cool: |
Skypirate,
Did you get your private message I sent you last week? Just looking for another Hi-Performance Boater on M.I. to go boating with. Do you have a boat now? Where do you live on Merritt Island? MD |
AMAZING, Bosco STILL doesn't answer the questions that the other members have asked! Why does he seem more concerned about AT than their own boat?
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Bosco,
I would have to agree with you "You can't compare AT to a product like Cigarette" I had a 28 AT built and when I got it I had to get rid of it because of fit & finish problems! I own a Cigarette now - I should of bought the Cigarette from the beginning and I wouldn't of loss $$$$. Why do AT owners get all bent out of shape when you state your opinion/facts?? :D |
There is a big difference when someone is stating their opinions objectively. He works for a manufacturer and represents powerplay. That is why we get "bent out of shape" no objectivity. I get bent out of shape when a manufacturer puts down another manufacturer, that is bad business, I get bent out of shape when my phone calls requesting information do not get returned. I do not get bent out of shape when someone gives their opinions.:D
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AC...I'm still curious as to what AT did to address your problems besides make changes to their molds :confused: Is there another part of the story?
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Originally posted by thunderdan There is a big difference when someone is stating their opinions objectively. He works for a manufacturer and represents powerplay. That is why we get "bent out of shape" no objectivity. I get bent out of shape when a manufacturer puts down another manufacturer, that is bad business, I get bent out of shape when my phone calls requesting information do not get returned. I do not get bent out of shape when someone gives their opinions.:D I was referring to Jassman! not you buddy! :D |
Originally posted by thunderdan There is a big difference when someone is stating their opinions objectively. He works for a manufacturer and represents powerplay. That is why we get "bent out of shape" no objectivity. I get bent out of shape when a manufacturer puts down another manufacturer, that is bad business, I get bent out of shape when my phone calls requesting information do not get returned. I do not get bent out of shape when someone gives their opinions.:D By the way I agree with you that manufactures should not down other manufactures but if a customer has an issue with the manufacture they have the right to state the facts! :D |
Gotcha, AC. :D
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Sorry about the Cig vs. AT stats. I stand corrected:
AT model years: 1988,1989,1990,1991,1992,1993,1994,1995,1996,1997, 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002,2003. That would be apples to apples. |
AC, I agree with you 100%, but, you never anwsered any of my questions:confused:confused: probably wont, but take care anyways:)
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AC never answered any of my questions either Jassman. Why bother posting an issue if you don't want to explain it :confused:
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Originally posted by Indy AC never answered any of my questions either Jassman. Why bother posting an issue if you don't want to explain it :confused: I went through a lot of S%#$&*T! You would fell the same way! I had many other boats (Sunsation/Baja/Cigarette/Formula) and never went through what I went through with AT. What I stated was the facts! |
eeeh...
is it me or am I ALWAYS seeing AT Boys bashing others .? :rolleyes: |
rivergirl,
it is usually after a bit of provoking.:D |
Rivergirl, your popularity makes you a favorite, but your judgement is flawed...the AT boys ONLY stand up for themselves when attacked, if you would read closely, they do not start the bashing (like the Powerplay Rep) their is a big difference, but we can see what side you are on since the OSO people are friends of the owner of Powerplay.
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I'm sorry for the impression that some seem to have regarding AT owners. If one reads the threads closely, then its easy to see that At owners did not attact anyone. Cmparisons were made by other individuals and At people defended thier descions. At has been making boats a long time now. I would venture to say that the current ownership of AT has been in place longer than the current ownership of Cig. In all honesty that really doesn't mean alot unless one were to have an older boat with a lifetime worranty and needs something looked at. Cigs are great boats....no one denies that fact. AT's are great boats...for some reason people want to not admit to that fact. Powerpalys are great boats...if you can get one...no one denies that fact. Why can't we just agree that offshore performance boats great and as long as one is happy with the descion they make then lets leave it at that. Skypirate gave hisreasons for choosing AT over Cig and yet people still say it was a descion based on money when he has clearly stated that IF the Cig had fit his needs he would have glady payed to have one. And based on pricing Ive seen advertised, I don't think you could realisticly ever get an AT for half the price of a CIG. If you could I'd be getting my 37' AT tomorrow along with alot of other people, I'd imagine.
Now in the immortal words of Rodney King..."Can't we all just get along?":D ;) |
Basically, one doesn't shoot at a dying bird on the ground, one that is flopping around in pain, instead, you go for the bird sitting high up in the tree, the one that is happy and proud. Seems AT is way up there and many are taking shots. BUT what most don't understand is there are plenty of trees and a lot of room for many high flying birds...but very few see this and they just sit on the ground floping and trying to throw rocks...complaining and not trying to do something better. Remember, it's "one-branch" at a time!
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You see, the space between the cells on even the most dense foams is air that eventually breaks down. Good lumber holds better becouse of the chris cross of grain as well as the fibrous nature of a tree. |
I just love ruffling feathers around here!
My judgment flawed…? Can you really stand behind your statements, ScreaminDemon..? But how do I know you guys aren’t part of AT or best friends with the Owners of AT..? and maybe you’re making these statements based on fear of threat in the industry..? Would that be fair for me to judge.. as you are judging me..? Nor, do I have to explain whom I am friends with or not. I guess if I thought that way I wouldn’t like Skater nor Apache…. only Cigarette…? I don’t know the PowerPlay boys well. Nor do I know this Bosco fella… But, from what I gather when I met them... very nice guys, whom I feel are doing their best and believe in their product. But because they don’t talk much about it, you’re going to question the product..? I have heard nothing but good about the boat! I guess time will tell. The comments I have read, don’t seem much, except for assumptions. That’s all. I don’t feel that any of you have sound concrete facts! So if you are just assuming, then why say a darn thing. Basically, you guys just did to me, what Bosco did for PowerPlay. Stand up to what he believes is a good product. I guess that’s my point. Why make comments off of flawed judgment..? I am proud to see you guys stand behind the products you believe in. I’m sure it makes the owner of AT proud to have you guys as customers. I have yet to experience the pleasure of meeting the owner of AT or experiencing what the AT is all about. Maybe someday I will get to enjoy the AT experience...all around! I think we should appreciate all offshore boats/ manufactures. For goodness sakes, they are manufactured because of the love of the sport for us to enjoy! So why be against someone who loves the same sport/hobby/industry as we do? my thoughts on Cigarette / AT … When I look at a Cigarette….. I think about all the history behind it. How does AT compare to that? What’s AT history..? Does it have the ledgens name.. whom started all of this ...."Don A's" name behind it..? how long have they been around..? Educate me. ;) ;) ;) ;) :cool: |
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