Skypirate-
Congrats on you decision and purchase- I'm sure you did your homework and bought what was right for you!
We bought an AT late last year, and are quite happy with our decision to do so as well.
Cigarettes are nice boats........
Powerplays are nice boats.......
Active Thunders are nice boats.......
and so on......

It makes no sense to comment on any boat unless you've seen how it's constructed, talked to the people that do the construction, and been in it for a test drive!
To each his own- buy what works FOR YOU!

Newer companies vs. older companies (with maybe more heritage)?---- Is a Dell computer worse than an IBM? I'd say Dell does a pretty good job with excellent marketing and excellent product to back it up for a fairly young company taking on 'big blue'. Active Thunder is doing the same- they know the competition is stiff!

As far as all the discussions about this boat vs. that on this board- AT and otherwise, maybe it's time to step back and think of those less fortunate- those who will never own something like these machines at all. There are families with a simple runabout that equal or exceed our enjoyments in boating, and that boat is more than enough for them. It's all a matter of priorities.

No matter what you drive, I for one am going to give you a smile, a wave, and a thumbs up. I can only hope for a genuine one in return!

Apparently you took my statement wrong......
Anyway....

I am sorry to hear you experienced that.
And to be honest, it happened to a guy I was involved with a year ago. He brought up the same concerns, so yes, I have experienced the facts on that matter.
But, I didn't past judgment 1st chance I got......
Things do change, they have had some bridges to hurdle, and I give them the benefit of the doubt. They have had a tough road with a good product.
Nor do I judge because Dan doesn't post. That is he choice.

I simply stated what I saw on the sidelines, knowing or not, I felt there were judgments made without clear concrete facts. Including ones directed my way!

I also stated how I appreciate when I see dedicated owners and I would like to be educated on AT, since I don't know a lot about them or their history....

I respect the sport as a whole!
history and current ....

Whoa...hold on a minute. There are some great boat manufacturers still using wood successfully...Pantera, Powerplay, and Cig still use it in some areas. Why would I want to pay a jacked up price for composite when properly installed wood is arguably better? There was a good article in Boating Magazine by Lenny Rudow last month addressing composite vs wood. He cautioned people not to buy in to the industry wide assumption that wood is not good. Some of his points were that some of the manufacturers have lifetime transferrable warrantees on their wood products (AT is not the only manufacturer with confidence in their products), closed cell foam is not as stiff, wood has better sound deadening properties, screws get a better bite in wood, wood has superior memory which will retain its shape longer under heavy loading. Wood is also not as light as composite, heavier means better riding (also need more power). Wood has a longer history of durability than composite (if installed properly).
I denfinately think there is merit to what Bosco is saying.

INDY, I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS A FEW OF YOUR COMMENTS:
Why would I want to pay a jacked up price for composite when properly installed wood is arguably better?
THE ACTIVE THUNDER IS COMPETITIVELY PRICED AND IN MANY COMPARISONS LESS MONEY, WE FEEL WE ARE GIVING THE CUSTOMER MORE VALUE BY ADDING HIGHER QUALITY MATERIALS

Some of his points were that some of the manufacturers have lifetime transferrable warrantees on their wood products (AT is not the only manufacturer with confidence in their products), closed cell foam is not as stiff,
ACTUALLY, IN THE CASE OF STRINGERS, THE SHAPE AND MATERIALS YOU PUT OVER THE SHAPE CREATE THE STRENGTH.

wood has better sound deadening properties, screws get a better bite in wood,
WE THROUGH-BOLT WITH BACKING PLATES

wood has superior memory which will retain its shape longer under heavy loading. Wood is also not as light as composite, heavier means better riding
IN THE OLD DAYS, YES, BUT IN THE NEW MILLENNIUM, NOT TRUE, WEIGHT DOES NOT MEAN A BETTER RIDE IN A PROPERLY DESIGNED HULL - WHICH WE PAID HARRY SCHOELL TO DESIGN AND IT'S PATENTED WITH WASHINGTON DC.

(also need more power). Wood has a longer history of durability than composite (if installed properly).
IF INSTALLED PROPERLY IS THE KEY! BUT WHAT IF A RIGGER FORGETS TO PUT ENOUGH SEALER AROUND THE HOLES HE CUT? OR WHAT IF THE GLASS CONDENSATES? (WHICH IT DOES AND WAS PROVEN BY DON ARONOW MANY YEARS AGO). IF ANY MOISTURE COMES IN CONTACT WITH WOOD, THATS IT, OVER TIME IT WILL ROT. WITH COMPOSITE CONSTRUCTION THERE ARE NEVER ANY WORRYS ABOUT ROT, NEVER. AND THEN THE WEIGHT ISSUE ALONE SHOULD BE ENOUGH.

WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY TO BUILD THE BEST POSSIBLE BOAT WE CAN, AND ANY CUSTOMER WHO HAS RIDDEN IN IT IN ROUGH WATER WILL TELL YOU, IT'S ROCK SOLID!!!
WOULDN'T IT BE A LOT EASIER IF WE COULD JUMP IN THE TRUCK AND GO TO HOME DEPOT AND BUY A FEW SHEETS OF PLYWOOD?

IF ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTIONS PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTACT STEVE AT ACTIVE THUNDER 954.782.1111.
MORE CAN BE READ ON OUR WEB SITE AS WELL.
THANKS AND HAVE A GREAT DAY!

I agree with JAFO, he made some excellent points. This thread to me has become uneducational, and has incurred other influences about what the original topic was about:( We are all going to stand up to what we think is right, thats human nature, the problem is that some times their appears to be some distorted facts which would influence someone else's decision, especially one who has never been on or driven either of these two fine boats. Facts are Facts, but little bits and pieces of information or not telling the whole story and skirting around the issues that were asked are also wrong. As far as I am concerned the rest is all hear say, or secord or third hand knowledge. Both boats are great , I have been on both, driven both, and would be also Damn proud to own a NEWER Cigarette. Like JAFO said, quite a few people do not have the opportunity to do what we all do, its an expensive, but self gratifying, relaxing, and fun sport, lets keep it that way, take care EVERYONE:)

This A/t - Top Gun comparo has gotten a ton of play and has made for some great reading .... but I think the 37 AT and the 37 Outerlimits is a closer comparison .... also... Whats the status of AT's 42 ???????

J.M.

Hey all,

Just want to give everyone a heads up. There's a guy that worked for Powerplay and now works for AT. Well... he's a little angry...:( :( and he's also into computers. He goes under 4-6 different names on this board and he'll take shots anytime he can to give it back to Powerplay. He'll state he's from Pompono Beach or won't have anything location listed. So i would wonder if A/T knows about this??



;)zzie

Hey Ozzie, how ya doin, heard you decided to have your motors redone, what are you pushin for HP now, it should be a fun year.:D Which guy are you speaking about, and do you remember his names, why is he so upset:confused: take care, hopefully see ya at some poker runs this year:D Jeff Jassby

Well, I guess I would be the blame for that...

but more important, I would be the blame for reconizing something I felt was wrong. A person taking advantage of the board and freedom of speech to infulence others in a negative way towards another.

HA!
I KNEW IT!!!

my instincts....are gooooood!!

listen to other opinions with a grain of salt.
Never know whats true and whats not, and or what the motive is!

Good luck to the AT & the PP boys !

Hey Jeff,

Whats doing buddy? Well...there 's only one guy that just started with A/T;). You mean to tell me you A/T's guys don't know who he is???:D:D lol.. come on now;). Things are good, had the motors at Richie Zuls for the dyno testing. On the final pull we did 845 lb-ft and 630 hp at 4,000 rpm's and 730 lb-ft and 835 hp's at 6,000 rpm's. The boost was set up 5 1/2 pounds. These new billet intercoolers from the Blower shop are beautiful!!

My IMCO's should be in today or tomorrow. I might be in the water this weekend, but I won't hold my breathe.:D :D

PS What poker runs are you considering?



;)zzie

I know exactly who the Wizard is talking about. His clues gave it away.
I to have talked with this gentleman. Actually, we talked for quite some time when I was at the shop a couple of weeks ago. I have the highest respect for his experience and his knowledge, both in glass/rigging, and racing.
1. He has never bad-mouthed Powerplay boats to me.
2. It seems that he would have good reason to if he wanted to.

ThunderousDaze - Thanks for the comments. Did Harry Schoell design all your hulls or just the longer ones? The reason I ask is because my next boat will probably still be a 28' boat. I will be looking at ATs as well as a few others.

AT used their center console 28 hull. They cut off the molded platform off the back and used the deck from the 32 AT cut down!

corrected - 31 Center Console hull!

I have similar experiences with this gentleman from AT and have spent easily 2 hours with this gentleman and he never, not once bad mouthed any other boat builder and he had plenty of opportunities to. :)

I am all talked or typed out on this subject. I am fortunate to have the boat that I do and I love all power boats, regardless of size or manufacturer.

Anyway, it is 90 degrees here in Jersey and I can not wait to go boating.........Hopeful someone will bring their boat down to the NJPPC kick of party at Dave and Busters this weekend.:p :D

Dan,

Are you bringing the new baot?

AC

boat!

Nope,:( it is still in Fla. I will be at the Atlantic City Poker Run with it though. Are you going to do the Poker Run?:D

No but will be doing the Delaware River run!

AC

As far as all the discussions about this boat vs. that on this board- AT and otherwise, maybe it's time to step back and think of those less fortunate- those who will never own something like these machines at all. There are families with a simple runabout that equal or exceed our enjoyments in boating, and that boat is more than enough for them. It's all a matter of priorities.

No matter what you drive, I for one am going to give you a smile, a wave, and a thumbs up. I can only hope for a genuine one in return! [/B][/QUOTE]

Well said!

Hasn't it occured to anyone there may be more than one great boat? The difinition of a great boat lies with who's doing the defining. I would give my left nut to own any of these boats that are being complimented or bashed. I suggest we all step away from the puder, get in our own "great boat" and go out and have some fun! It's like any argument, the more you state your case, the more the other person is sure he is right! In the wise words of Dale Carnegie "The only way to win an argument is to avoid it"

Hey Ozzie, Those are some big Torque Mongers, WHEW!!!! Strong, very strong:D I am going to have a hard time keeping up with you, My motors should be done in a few weeks, when I get the Dyno sheets I will let you know what they pulled. I also went with the same drives as you did , Advatage SC.

The Poker Runs I am going to try and attend this year will be the Lake Cumberland, The Delaware river run, The one in Destin Florida, They have another one in Louisianna, and the one in Key West, Thunder RUN. Im in my busiest season right now, it will be a miracle if I make all of these, but I've been know to come up with a few miracles here and there:p

I did call Thunder after I read your post, the guy you were talking about, I did speak with him, He actually laid my hull up, I thought he was very knowledgable, and was very straight forward with Sandy and I, we talked about the racing background, super nice guy, never did he say or even bring up PP, all he talked about was how he loved working at Active Thunder, Pat was a fair guy, and thought it was a class act shop, I never thought to ask him where he previously worked at, I was so excited to see our boat and learn the process in which it was being built, which was mostly what he talked about.

Which PR are you attending:D Jeff Jassby

?????
 

WHO CARES?
WHO CARES??
WHO CARES???
LET IT REST FOR GOODNESS SAKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1:o :eek: :cool:

By Bosco -------------> Why, you ask do they still use lumber in there transom and stringers? Becouse about 10 years ago they built race boats with foam, and they simply would not hold up. Simply put, all the fasteners used on motor mounts and transom assemblies would wollow out and parts would become mis-aligned and break.

You see, the space between the cells on even the most dense foams is air that eventually breaks down. Good lumber holds better becouse of the chris cross of grain as well as the fibrous nature of a tree.<--------------------- This seems to be nearing the end of the spasm thank God!!

Ah Man!! where does one start with this type of Ignorance?? First off what kind of plywood are We Talking about Here ?? A Cheap Sheet of Fir? Or something like these; Okoume Marine, Meranti Marine Plywood ?? Well lets go the *cheap Fir Bosco route ,Curious whats the Fc of the fir?? Bet you Its around 320# ! thats it !!three hundred twenty pounds of compressive strength !!What a bolt sees when its tightened.. Now for that Expensive Plastic core That you dont like, The Range would be from 1250-3000 # and better Depending On the Selection made.

*A Non- Marine grade - Example Exterior A-C Fir you Know the One With lots and Lots of Internal Gaps and Voids !! Which Is also cool by the grading Standard ,For a House Hell I guess its ok, But as we Know it Is a real No No For a Boat! Now thats where all the Nasty Pre-Broken down Air Is Hiding at Ill Bet you, Man! No Lloyds Register of shipping Approval Stamp Here ever !! Oops Almost Forgot Deduct 20% from that 320 Number if the Wood is wet!!

In closing Bosco The cells (which are filled by the way with an inert Gas) If you Plan on Living the next 300 Years or so Maybe you can catch the Plastic breaking Down,,But If I were You I would stay with the cheap Fir a Couple months outside on the ground and bye.. By the way The high density Foams are used on deep diving Submersibles ,3 Miles down or better does not seem to harm them..But you Knew that Right?

Ahh the void thing ! Rub your hand over that Damp exotic Fir plywood and Listen for resonance,Betcha you will find a lot..


Veritas Kyrie
:p Im Done Here

I think some of you would be suprised. There was a article posted about a survey that had link. If you go to the site it had a article about fiberglass, putty,composite and wood. It is good info.

Different strokes for different folks :)

Here is a link http://www.yachtsurvey.com/HullFailPart1.htm


Now my next job is to find the Name of the Poor Example!!



Veritas Kyrie :p

Thanks Steve for ENLIGHTNING us, that was a good article:) if you have anything else to further my education on the the building process post some links for us to read, again I apprieciate it, thanks, Jeff Jassby:D

Here is another http://www.yachtsurvey.com/HiTech.htm

Enjoy :)

Great article. I have always enjoyed Pacoes writings as a no nonsense, tell it like you see it sort of guy.

I think Cuda worded it best. There are a lot of great boats out there, each with different personalities to suit the owner. I can't understand what all the fuss is about. You own an AT, and love your boat. Great. You own a Cigarette, and love your boat. Great. You own a 16 foot aluminum Lund, and love your boat. Wonderful. No need to take pokes at the manufacturers.

Let's take this discussion to the Active Thunder forum. Cuda and HP-J are correct. Anything that floats is good. Better than being stuck on land! There have been many different opinions here and what an interesting thread! Fun to watch evolve and grow. Thanks to everyone involved, even the antoginists (John, you're on my ****-list, Hyundai, huh?) but it's been fun and informative. One boater's experience in buying a new toy. The economy has come around, summer is close. Let's have some fun!

That was a real interesting bunch of bull$%^&. Where did you get your degree in afgahniscam ? go look in the bilge of the f-2 boat and I bet you can see all kinds of ALUMINUM re-supporting all that wonderfull gas in those pores between that wonderfull plastic that is claimed to be so strong. Compressive strength good, sheer no good, get it.

The truth will always shine through, the smoke will clear, and eventually the mirror will break. I think the name is the OUTLAW and all that great ALUMINUM can be clearly seen.

Enough said !

You guys are all Freaks! Why don't you try boating for a change.

Tooooooooooooo much b.s for me!

FYI, I have owned both boats and have nothing bad to say about either.

Sorry Joey I'm going boating !:D

That was a great article. That is what OSO should be about, education and not bickering and slamming. Who is the writer of that report/article? The boat on the site/article looks like a performace boat. Does anyone know what kind of boat that is? www.yachtsurvey.com/HullFailPart1.htm

Real good But Bosco where are your numbers ?? Post some facts !! Do you understand What you are talking about?? Ok Shear Your Wonder Plywood Ok Here goes; Ready 155 psi wet 190 psi dry

Ok the bad ole Plastic 650 psi oops again looks like your theory went poof

FYI The Bertram Raceboats had Aluminium Stiffining on their Magical Plywood transoms a long time ago

By the way the link I posted look at the” Bad Example” and tell us who that is?? Mr Expert Bosco !!

BTW I Made a phone call and Know!!

Veritas Kyrie:p Bosco i hope you know a high number is best !!

Jeeze no Bosco Maybe that his plywood computer case fell apart!!


Vertias Kyrie:p Should of used Plastic !!

Guess Bosco is not going to tell us who that is !! The Computer case thing was Just a Joke bosco, No harm intended.

Vertias Kyrie:p

I have way too much time on my hands...i was just read this entire thread....lots of good points... i like river girls point of view....cig does make a great boat...they have a huge legacy...why....racing!....race boats and productions boat...i'm not going there....but anyway look at what formula did the past few years..won races...think that helped sales or added resale to the boats?? do you think??? do ya think winning the pro series, worlds and nationals help cig's gladiator sales or increased their demand....well gess who is going to do it this year...donzi. they steped up to the plate big time...i guess well just have to see how they do....for the most part it's really not a question of who has a better engeineered boat...the question is the customers perseption of who makes a better boat....if a two manufactures are both only making 10 boats a year...one is 200k and the other is 300k. what is the preseption of the customer??...hummmm

I hope that SkyPirate has some good idling motors with all the Manatee Zones he'll have to idle thru:mad: That is one of the reason we held off from buying a 388 Slingshot we were looking @.
MD

a good running engine should idle all day...i don't get it? why would anyone ever even consider buying a used boat with engine that are not set-up correctly?