Us annoying clients have a bad habit of getting in the way of business......

Back to Bertram.....

The water rushing through the gap could have broken the transom off - but so cleanly?

How did the rudder get so tweaker?

Wouldn't the water resistance found it easier to go around vs push out the other side?

Im curious as to the claim that it just folded up. The pictures certainly show signs of delamination- heres a big question.

Do the delaminations picts prove defects in workmanship?


UD

Again with the cheap shots! Notice I am NOT saying the only way people like you could beat me is from the office not on the Race Course!! Be proud you fit that mold well.

The Bertram :It is all conjecture until it is examined by engineers and the laboratory evaluation is done on coupons cut from the damaged area.

The Cheap shots started on post 53 when you accused me of posting - " bogus data (again)".

Easy to try to attack Uncle Dave- you can make all kinds of statements about me, Im just an informed customer.

YOU ARE THE EXPERT. Problem is OTHER EXPERTS DISAGREE WITH YOU.

Its harder to attack your competition that supports the (supposedly bogus) datas conclusion than me so you attack me.

You dont want "Go there" when it means taking on Skaters choice of cores. Which incidentally - is mine.

We do agree on guns and nuclear power- (from the bilge)

Uncle Dave

Once again I have to school you. Now there are people trying to get that material banned for marine use.

Like when I went in the Company Office in the 70's and asked why were not using the Vinylester's that I had been reading and studying about, at this time on our race stuff, Unfortunately there was someone Exactly like you was behind the desk and the reply was "no one uses that" LOL and what happened next changed my life I lost a bottom in a Bimini race and decided to do the glass work myself after that. So thank You!!

Look very simple Here when I was looking for a building system,

I found one that I liked after much research , it was used Also in life boats that had to be launched from high up on oil platforms, this was a while back. The Dutch were using this material for Navy boats and Commercial craft.

The Testing Indicated a VERY good Fatigue Life as well, Here one test involved a 12" by 72" laminated panel being flexed 12" at one cycle per second for 5-6 million Cycles Two of these tests maybe 8 weeks each.

Now other material was tested as well!! Take your wildest swing at the one that survived!!

NOW Uncle you come in here with Bones and Bear claws mentality
like my Window Glass plate is Tougher than your Lexan Plate Look at this Load test ! ROFLMAO

And Why back in the day would I spend 3 times as much for the plastic core as the Wood?

To be clear- which material is being considered for a ban?

<You mentioned this earlier and I didnt ask for clarification.>

(Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to things being banned. I cant ride a 2 stoke anymore, or even ride my 4 stroke anymore because every where I do so Im killing some weed that supposedly only lives there. I cant buy a real ammo clip where I live, or a rifle that looks scary.)


To be sure and I have said it before, the man made materials are very light. the data shows this, and it goes back to your point of lightness.

From what I can tell EVERYTHING in boating is a compromise across various elements. to answer your question.

I think you pay more for it because you accept the compromise of lightness and flexibility over absolute stiffness and strength.

strength /lightness
Horsepower/longevity
Cheap/Good etc etc.

You seem to have found a way to use the foam material in a way that limits its downside, I dont dislike foam. My pet manufacturer builds race boats out of foam, or a foam balsa combo-and will build one any way you ask them to. I dont think they are stupid. They are experts, and will list what the compromises are. There are compromises.

The same guys though when building machine to last 20-50 years make the same boat using balsa telling me the tradeoff is a weight penalty for more rigidity and strength The data and 50 years of using it suport that conclusion.

Im not and never have said Foam is bad.

I do not get emotional and attack people because they do not agree with me, because it isn't "ME" they are disagreeing with. Its the host of experts with lifetimes of experience that must support and repair and answer for the product they sell today 50 years from now.

We seem to agree on Vinylester, but to be fair to me outside of this post you dont know me, and weve never exchanged mails and you likely havent followed threads of my builds or really "know me at all". So when you refer to "a guy behind the desk exactly like me" you are really resorting to another personal attack.

Funny thing is you are using vinylester as a story plot and you know for a fact I support vinylester as a material, I just did so in another thread you and I are both in where I quoted one of my pet builders in a discussion about epoxy or glass construction.

Instead of pointing out where we see eye to eye you choose to use it as a differentiator?

Like I said we see eye to eye on lots of things, just not all.

Respectfully,

Uncle Dave

Good to know someones having fun!

UD

This is the most fun I've had in awhile!
:gfight:

At least these two are allowed to slug it out here on YF they would have gotten booted 5 pages ago!

So, do you both of agree the boat stuffed and came apart (for whatever reason) and did not hit anything?:kiss:

Uncle first off IF you are building a boat for longevity Wood/Plyrot/Balsa is not on the input ,home depot-shopping list! Where the Plastics can be exposed to water and humidity permanently.
Now where the Behavior of the sandwich Structure under overload, Impact, fatigue. Vibrations and ETC the Plastic wins hands down.

Stiffness again Uncle not true by any measure in a well-designed panel! If anything it will be self-destructive. As if wood is used that does not have the consistency of Plastic.

And again your Data is NA where the Liner foams are concerned. Now off topic the best in Sport fishing Boats and Composite Yachts are built using Plastic Cores.

It appears that way, but until a real evaluation can be made by both sides of this it is a touchy issue.

Well It came apart for sure and looks like delamination.

With the sophistication of todays radar and chart plotters I for one find it hard to believe he hit anything.

The buoy would not only show up on radar, (from miles away no less based on the height of the array) It would also probably be on his GPS's chart.

If hes using a raster chart like most capatains seem to prefer - buoys are definately marked.

Some guys will navigate that that though setting waypoints from buoy marker to buoy marker and he could have been blindly following a waypoint right to it.

Lets say he hit the buoy. Should that have brought a 63ft 1.8M dollar bertram to the bottom? I just dont see it. Chain wrapped around a strut yanked something off, damaged the boat- oh yeah sink it? ehh dont think so but its possible.

Im a big believer in waiting to see what the testing shows, but It sounds and looks to me like the boat just buckled.

UD