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63' Bertram Possibly stuffed off SC???

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Old 01-13-2010, 01:06 PM
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An investigation is underway to determine what sank "Absolutely", a Bertram 630 in November. Bertram has developed its line of sportfishermen to a point where they are fast and light, making them more like their high performance "magnum" counterparts than the heavy Hatterases that they have been compared to in the past.

Look at the pics taken of "Absolutely" as she sits on the bottom. Note the fore-deck and the delimitation of the entry just above the waterline at the bow. Brings back memories of "The Heat is On" in Key West.

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/ge...ram-630-a.html

T.
yes it does and heartbeat the black fountian 33 in 94 if I am right and the power play 33 later in the 90s. but in these three people got killed and hurt, they were lucky in the 63. which I think after 55 pages hit the can that put a small hole in the port side while the can was on top or haft way up a wave and the boat ramed it above the water line and the next two sets of waves caved in thr rest of the hull and deck. if they still make those boats out of polyester resin and coring that sucks. for a 2.5 million dollar boat it should be all glass if using polyester. most high performance boats built with coring are vinlyester or epoxy either hand layed or vacum bagged also a better glass should be used on the 63 kevlar two layers on the outside against the gel and coring. theres was a kevlar 38tg in 96 or 97 on the cape he hit a can 4 times the size of the bert one on the outside of the west end of the canal at night going 40 to 60mph it opened a 1 to 2 ft gap above the water line 7ft long. the glass guy said it was the kevar and it might of had cf in it cause there was a lot of webbing that was black like cf that save the cig he said a all glass boat would have been worst maybe sunk. well thats it for now.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:20 PM
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There is no way that a 63 Bertram would have gone down as a result of impact with that buoy or one like it. I personally have seen a 73 Rybovitch hit a Large Chanel Marker (Nun) and sustain far less damage than this boat has. Also 32 Intrepid collided with a Large Can at 35 mph and finally went down after 2 hours, and sustained damage at the point of impact, but the entire boat didn't delaminate.

IMO the transom came off as a result of the water being forced through the hull, and traveling through the lower lazzarette and bilge area ripping the transom off with the force of the water. This is not an isolated incident with newer Bertrams, just the worst case so far, but I am sure there are more out there.

I have over 6000 hours at the helm of several large Sport Fish Boats, and the 63 Bertram that I ran for a customer shuddered and flexed in a big sea, where as the Vikings that I ran more frequently have a solid feel. There may have been several factors involved, but the construction of the boat and their layup deffinately failed.
hey fred I read that the new vikings are cord too.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:24 PM
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Look at the separation.

Core material is supposed to BOND as one piece with the glass and resin. This is NOT what this should look like.


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63' Bertram Possibly stuffed off SC???-31.-dealimination-2.jpg   63' Bertram Possibly stuffed off SC???-30.-delamination.jpg  
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:45 PM
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A Bertram 630 weighs over 90,000 lbs. The boat was also supposed to be traveling around 25 knots, not 40. It is reported in that thread that seas were under 6 ft. I am no expert, but in my opinion a 63 foot sportfish should not be stuffing under those conditions.
Look up the wave station reports... 8,9 and 10 feet. "Absolutely" tops out at 42 knots. 90k further makes the argument for stuffing... It's all about momentum.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:36 PM
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Look at the separation.

Core material is supposed to BOND as one piece with the glass and resin. This is NOT what this should look like.


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Thats usually what happens when a core is not bagged or not bagged properly or is dry. Just the surface of the core is bonded with no cross linking or very poor resin penetration. Although from the pics the dark lines do indicate resin presence so its tough to tell. Man this boat really is a mess. What were the seas that day? I didnt get a chance to read all the way through yet.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:39 PM
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Look up the wave station reports... 8,9 and 10 feet. "Absolutely" tops out at 42 knots. 90k further makes the argument for stuffing... It's all about momentum.
oops, just saw this. Yea thats a lot of available forces there. Delams only need a small breach to become catastrophic but man this thing is a mess.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:17 PM
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hey fred I read that the new vikings are cord too.

There is nothing wrong with a cored boat, if done properly. In fact if done properly the cored laminate is just as strong or stronger, with a serious weight advantage.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:17 PM
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Look up the wave station reports... 8,9 and 10 feet. "Absolutely" tops out at 42 knots. 90k further makes the argument for stuffing... It's all about momentum.
The closest buoy I found lists a max wave height throughout the day of Nov, 6 at around 1.7 meters. If my memory is correct the thread at yachtforums also indicates the captain of the boat claims he was traveling at 26 knots.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:37 PM
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I used to work for a well known custom sportfishing builder in the Outerbanks years ago.This was back in 95 when we were building hulls fully framed out of 2 by 8 juniper frames on 12 inch centers with 1 inch juniper planking and covered by 1/4 inch 5 layer ply in and out with a layer of 18/o8 on the outer and the inner also.All built with epoxy

These 60 foot hulls weighed in at 50,000 and were running circles aroung the Production guys.Now the production guys are trying to duplicate the speeds with their hitech layups and they aint gettin it right.A lot of the strenght and speed of the hull is built into the shape of the Carolina boats.Deep sharp entrys and heavily flared bows with an almost flat transom area.

The builder i worked with built boats in the winter and ran the chit out of them in the summer at tournaments.They didn't know what a blueprint was but built a hell lof a strong and fast boat by eye.

He told me a story one time that he was running side by side downwind in some big waves at a good clip with a big Hatteras, he was in one of his boats.Next thing they know they look to their side and the boat disappeared. They had stuffed it and peeled the deck off and it drove straight to the bottom, Fortanately the captain and crew were on the bridge and floated off it as it vanished.

It appears that this happened with the with the Bert but if the damage was that bad it seems it would have gone down before a mayday was called. No timeline how long it toook to sink so far.

http://www.paulmanncustomboats.com/

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Old 01-13-2010, 06:13 PM
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Nice stuff! That 81 is a sweet piece. I can sit an look at build pics for hours
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