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Oil spill in the gulf of Mexico

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Old 07-15-2010, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sixmassive View Post
there was never too great of pressure in top kill.
Not trying to start an argument, just my opinion here, but...

Really? Care to provide a link to this fact?

I'm no expert and can only repeat what I have read about this, so here's a little thought experiment:

Pressure at well head from escaping oil is 3500-5000 psi IIRC.
Pump used to deliver "kill shot" is 80,000 hp.
How much psi is required to push 'X' cubic feet of mat'l (shredded tires, golf balls, whatever) through a mile of pipe?
How much add'l pressure is needed to overcome the force of the escaping oil and inject the mat'l into the well?

Remember how they stopped the top kill attempt rather abruptly? They never publicly said why, but there was a lot of chatter about it on sites like the Oil Drum. The speculation is that the casing was damaged. That's gotta be fairly stout pipe and imho it was more than 'never too great a pressure' that was used.

Look at the live feed of the well -- that chit is blasting out that hole.
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:59 AM
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Here's a good article with some links on BP's sh!tty safety record.

Except today's New York Times makes a pretty persuasive case that BP really did stand out in its disregard for safety, and that not all oil companies are equal. First up, Jad Mouwad wrote a profile of ExxonMobil, which revamped its management culture after the Exxon Valdez tanker spill in 1989, and now "stands out among its peers for its obsessive attention to safety." In fact, back in 2006, Exxon ran into problems in a deepwater well similar to what BP faced at Macondo—natural gas kicking up—and the company decided to abandon the well rather than keep drilling. (Exxon was savaged by financial analysts at the time, but the decision looks pretty shrewd in retrospect.)

The picture looks very different when you turn to the Times' excellent profile of BP. The company has a long record of safety violations—in 2005, an aging BP plant in Texas exploded, killing 15 people, and an after-action report blamed "organizational and safety deficiencies at all levels of BP." Then came a large leak that poured 267,000 gallons of oil into Prudhoe Bay, Alaska in 2006, thanks to poorly maintained pipes. And just this year, federal inspectors have found 62 safety violations at BP's Ohio refinery. Yet BP never underwent the same cultural shift that ExxonMobil underwent. And, so, in retrospect, it's no surprise that BP cut so many corners:


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Old 07-15-2010, 09:20 AM
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This really is a sad state we find ourselves in. With all the corruption in the media this administration and the oil industry I cant figure out what the facts truly are. We need oil and we need to strive to be energy independent. This disaster must be used to improve our oil producing capabilities not cripple it. Maybe deep water extraction with our current technology isnt the answer but unfortunatly If the US stops other countries are standing in line to drill and get a ahold of these idled rigs and will procede to produce at these depths.
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Old 07-15-2010, 09:28 AM
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Pressure of the well at the time of top kill was around 14k. the two frac boats are capable of 20k and 25k.
there are several reasons the top kill was abruptly stopped. i cannot comment further currently.
the casing was not damaged. the reason the cap that is currently on the well head cannot just be shut is because the pressure inside the well could crack the casing, that is why they are closing it slow and using two vessels to contain excess.
i'd love to get indepth more but i cannot.
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixmassive View Post
Pressure of the well at the time of top kill was around 14k. the two frac boats are capable of 20k and 25k.
there are several reasons the top kill was abruptly stopped. i cannot comment further currently.
the casing was not damaged. the reason the cap that is currently on the well head cannot just be shut is because the pressure inside the well could crack the casing, that is why they are closing it slow and using two vessels to contain excess.
i'd love to get indepth more but i cannot.
If true, that's good news about the casing.

Do you mind telling us who you work for? Why all the secrecy?
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:26 AM
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I work on the Q4000. any events or details of operation cant be discussed unless it has been released by BP PR. Company policy.
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:08 AM
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The reason they have to slowly close the valve on the current cap is due to whats called a Fluid Hammer, or more commonly known in residential plumbing as a water hammer. You get them when a fluid (usually a liquid but sometimes also a gas) in motion is forced to stop or change direction suddenly. Water hammer commonly occurs when a valve is closed suddenly at an end of a pipeline system, and a pressure wave propagates in the pipe. This pressure wave can cause major problems, from noise and vibration to pipe collapse. The resulting pressure spike can be as much as 10x if not more then the orriginal pressure output! So if the well is at 14k psi and they try and force all that top kill to try and stop the flow and create a hammer they could see pressures upwards of 140,000 psi!!!
I dont work in the oil industry or have much knowledge of how things work in that field...but i do work in the pumping field...the pumps we make range from 1gpm up to 200+ gpm and have seen some strange things result from fluid hammers. We make a 316 stainless pump for the military that has the pumps walls 1/4" thick and gets welded shut that we rate for 1000psi.....we have had them return one to us for evaluation and saw the entire rear housing blown out and busted open like a flower!! Now we have equipment to test the burst pressure of our pumps....we can simulte pressures up to 5000psi....that same pump only starts to distort the rear housing!!! so we can only assume they had WAY more then 5k psi in the pump head to cause that kind of damage!!!...and of course they cant tell us what they are doing with it!
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:48 AM
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I work on the Q4000. any events or details of operation cant be discussed unless it has been released by BP PR. Company policy.
Wow.

Good to know we have a member on the scene, and thanks for clarifying my assumptions with the facts.

Are you optimistic at this point?
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally View Post
The reason they have to slowly close the valve on the current cap is due to whats called a Fluid Hammer, or more commonly known in residential plumbing as a water hammer. You get them when a fluid (usually a liquid but sometimes also a gas) in motion is forced to stop or change direction suddenly. Water hammer commonly occurs when a valve is closed suddenly at an end of a pipeline system, and a pressure wave propagates in the pipe. This pressure wave can cause major problems, from noise and vibration to pipe collapse. The resulting pressure spike can be as much as 10x if not more then the orriginal pressure output! So if the well is at 14k psi and they try and force all that top kill to try and stop the flow and create a hammer they could see pressures upwards of 140,000 psi!!!
I dont work in the oil industry or have much knowledge of how things work in that field...but i do work in the pumping field...the pumps we make range from 1gpm up to 200+ gpm and have seen some strange things result from fluid hammers. We make a 316 stainless pump for the military that has the pumps walls 1/4" thick and gets welded shut that we rate for 1000psi.....we have had them return one to us for evaluation and saw the entire rear housing blown out and busted open like a flower!! Now we have equipment to test the burst pressure of our pumps....we can simulte pressures up to 5000psi....that same pump only starts to distort the rear housing!!! so we can only assume they had WAY more then 5k psi in the pump head to cause that kind of damage!!!...and of course they cant tell us what they are doing with it!
Correct, that is one of the many reasons. there hundreds of factors that are being worked out

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayboat View Post
Wow.

Good to know we have a member on the scene, and thanks for clarifying my assumptions with the facts.

Are you optimistic at this point?
none of this has been attempted in this depth of water, nor has a well been drilled to this depth. I am hoping for the best along with everyone else. the best and brightest are out here.

if the "experts" on tv are really experts, why are they not out here?
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixmassive View Post
Correct, that is one of the many reasons. there hundreds of factors that are being worked out



none of this has been attempted in this depth of water, nor has a well been drilled to this depth. I am hoping for the best along with everyone else. the best and brightest are out here.

if the "experts" on tv are really experts, why are they not out here?
Hello, I dont know who you are and where you are living and also jayboat does not know. I have no problem at all with catmando's statements as I know his posting well i.e. from the yacht webpages but I dont know you and I find the last statement about the not outgoing experts agitating because you know that they just can not be there.

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