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I'll race them with my Arnesons...........
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Originally Posted by Skater30
(Post 3192722)
I'll race them with my Arnesons...........
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Gentlemen,
Lets play nice or I'm gonna have to seperate you. This is most certainly a public forum where freedom of speech is welcome. At the end of the day we all have our favorites & preferences. I simply started this thread to share the experience like so many others have. I understand the path I'm taking may not be for everyone but I dare to be different. It appears ILMORDude responded to Boatless w/ info I know nothing about so I'll leave that alone. Kap328 in order of your comments- Once testing on my boat is concluded I will post Skaters sheet including all the criteria you have inquired about. Promise! While I can not produce such documentation for the other 3 boat owners or manufacturers (DCB, Eliminator & Spectre) nor do I even know if they use as extensive a sea trial data sheet as Skater. Maybe you can get the others to post theirs. The info I shared is all third party and comes from the following sources: Dave H. & ILMOR are pretty tight, he probably builds more boats w/ their packages than any other manufacturer. I know the least about DCB's test results beyond them electing to go w/ 1.39 gears, ILMOR was the source of that info. I don't even know the top speed for that boat w/ that pkg but I'm sure Ilmor Dude does. The DCB is the largest of the 4 Ilmor Indy boats & I suspect the heaviest. It & the Eliminator are both pod hulls so that plays a part in the test results as well. Word on the street is the Eliminator topped 155, it's obviously the smallest & lightest w/ the best HP to weight ratio. The owner lives in Canada, Ilmor is in MI, after Eliminator conducted their own pre-delivery tests my understanding is Ilmor conducted several tests of their own w/ the boat, ILMORDude was there, I believe there are several vids on Youtube & maybe ILMORdude can post a link to them. Again the feedback I received regarding the performance of this boat came directly from ILMOR. They tested it themselves & would have no reason to lie nor show preferential treatment to anyone manufacturer over another by posting inflated performance figures. Spectre splashed their 32SC last week, there's a thread in this section documenting their initial performance but no follow up or any sort of additional prop testing. My previous boat was a Spectre 32SC w/ 625 Ilmors. I know Jay Pilini (original founder of Spectre) & have maintained a relationship w/ him. Preliminary info came to me thru ILMOR & about 1hr later Mike Flannigan PM'd me matching data. Jay Pilini called me this past Monday & we compared notes. Thats where I've learned hwat I have about that boat. As for my boat it too is 3rd party info as I'm not there & have to rely on the Trevor & Peter for any & all feedback regarding my boat. So with that being said I understand your desire to want to compare apples to apples but unfortunately the 4 boats we are discussing aren't PB test boats operated by the same driver, on the same day in the same body of water under the same conditions. My boat is a PB test boat w/ the previous pkg (3/08) which is one of the reasons I started the thread & documented the upfit. Matt Trulio & PB Mag intend on doing a follow up story on the boat which should go to print 2 issues from now. This is not a promotional thread. I am a paying customer who has owned an ILMOR powered boat before , I like the turnkey performance & reliability not to mention impeccable customer service & support. IMO I believe I upgraded to the Skater w/ 710's. I traded the Spectre for the Skater to Randy @ LCM in April of '08. I don't believe the 725's were out yet but I knew the drives were in development so I purchased the boat w/ the full intention of upgrading. Unfortunately initially ILMOR only offered the Indy drive as a pkg w/ their new engine since they are both drive by wire. I had to wait an additional year until they were ready to tackle mating the Gen3 drive by cable engine to the new electronic drive. As I mentioned I'm simply a customer, who is a big fan of the product. I'm also a details guy so if you know anything about ILMOR, their history in motorsports, how many different types of motorsports they are & have been involved in as well as the # of wins & Championships then I think you can't fault me for being a fan. ILMOR is heavily engineering based, they spend alot of time developing & testing their products before they release them. Honda & the IRL series has chosen them to be the sole supplier of the entire fields engines. That engine is built from scratch. A clean sheet of paper & I want to believe the only thing honda on or in it is the name on the valve covers which are also supplied by ILMOR. I've been involved in motorsports for 25+ yrs so I've grown up at the same time ILMOR blasted into the USA & have watched them thrive over the years. When they introduced their marine line it was a no brainer for me. ILMOR has enjoyed success in about every series they've competed in. I'm not being a smarta$$ but here's a link to their history if you don't already know it. http://ilmor.com/profile/index.html ILMOR is backed by Roger Penske, I used to work in the IROC series a series he was a partner in. I've known Roger since 1984. Can you think of anything that he's touched that hasn't been succesful?? Obviously my NASCAR backround keeps us in touch quite often. This brings me to my next point. As stated before this thread was launched by me & solely me. I post w/o influence from anyone BUT it's my NASCAR business to business backround that inspires me to promote the products I believe in. Nothing more, nothing less. To my knowledge ILMOR did not make any ratio recommendation, they simply shared what the other 3 mftrs went with. Peter selected the ratio, I quizzed him & accepted his explanation. Another factor was the fact that Stainless' 32 ILMOR 710 powered Skater w/ #6's was spec'd w/ 1.50 gears. In my mind none of the other 3 Cats are as close in size, weight, power & hull design as that boat so if it's been a succesful pkg then I felt as if putting my fate in Peters hands was a pretty safe bet. The man has numerous accomplishments in the performance boating world more than all 3 of the others combined so I saw no reason to question him nor did I have the credentials to do so. Peter is a very humble man, he knows his stuff & he's taken time out to answer any & all of my questions. So I'm reiterating that Peter believes this is the ideal setup for my boat, my objectives & the type of boating I do AND if the results don't live up to the expectations then we'll simply swap gear ratios & start over. It's really that simple, no hidden agendas just a boat builder & customer w/ a plan & the willingness to venture outside the box to pursue it. With regard to your guinea pig comment thats fair & certainly up to the individual. As I've explained at length above, I'm very familiar w/ the ILMOR product, their track record & ability to develop & deliver superior products. Does this mean I will never have a problem?? Nope but I'm willing to take the risk knowing I have a package that has been developed & engineered to be mated supported by a company w/ customer service second to none in the marine industry IMO. The SCL prop spec's I quoted came directly from Hering, contact Jeff Johnston for more info. The Gen3 ILMOR 710 engine redlines at 6100rpm, my guess is you calculated my slip w/ a higher rpm, possibly that of the new Gen4 725 which I believe is another 200+ or 6300rpm. I hope this clears the air & allows this thread to move forward as intended w/o any of us taking jabs at one another. Any of you can contact me directly if you'd like to speak in real time. I'm a hunt & peck 101 so this response took 3hrs & 28 mins to type ok just kidding but it sure seemed like it.:lolhit: |
Originally Posted by C_Spray
(Post 3192523)
NASCAT - For what it's worth, I suspect that you will eventually end up with 1.39's for the very reason that you identified - the paddle wheel effect of too severe a pitch angle. As a fellow racer, however, I fully appreciate and applaud your willingness to test. (We both know the ratio of positive test results to negative, don't we?) :rolleyes:
I went the opposite direction, using a very low (28") pitch prop spinning at higher rpms because I was worried about the effect of prop torque on a single-engine pad bottom boat with a 5'9" chine-to-chine width. I'm not sure that I understand why a high-ratio/high-pitch setup is supposed to accelerate better that a low-ratio/low-pitch setup. In the end, power comes down to torque x speed, and the input is the same. It's kind of like "why would a car with smaller diameter tires and a taller rear-end gear accelerate any differently from a car with large tires and a shorter ratio???" Anyway - It looks like my "within 5 mph" prediction wasn't far off, was it? And.....Yes - I am cheerleading for Ilmor. |
Originally Posted by stainless
(Post 3192539)
What nobody has mentioned yet, is is how fast do you really want to go in an open cat?
Do you really need to be going 140++?? I've got a 32 skater with 710 Ilmors with #6's and 1.5 ratios with only 35 pitch merc props, and I'm topping out at around 120ish. Funny thing is, at the last poker run we ran, we were the 3rd boat to the first card stop right behind Danny Desantis in his new 40 skater with 1550 sterlings (180 mph boat), and then Dr Bill with his 36 skater with big sterling power (175 mph boat). We got there ahead of some other boats that were supposedly alot faster. I'm not so sure I want to be going 140+ in an open 30-32 skater, I'd rather stick with the 1.5 ratio to get more real world acceleration and overall performance. |
Originally Posted by SpeedDoc
(Post 3192559)
Holy Sh*t!!! Really??? It's NASCATS Boat, He Boats on a lake in NC, If he want's to Set his boat up for acceleration He Can. He doesn't have to set a Top speed for a 30' Skater. 1:50s open up a bigger array of props to try. He's working with a bunch of smart people.1) The Company who built the Boat 2) The Company that built the Motors and drives. Do you think there is More usefull Data than they can provide? You seem to. It's a thread about redoing his boat and how it goes throughout the build. Nothing More, It wasn't to convert merc owners to swap motors, it was about repowering HIS Boat,Jeez...
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Originally Posted by stainless
(Post 3192724)
Whatcha got for power?
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Originally Posted by Uncle Dave
(Post 3192701)
Kaps been quite helpfull to me.
(I never figured out what he doesnt like about indies, but I wont hold that against him. <smile>) His boat is formidable and unique. UD Quite the contrary I really like the ILMOR engine not crazy about the drive at all. However, word is on the street...ILMOR will finally turbocharge???? their motor into the 800HP realm.... hmmmm! Then what the hell are you gonna do UD upgrade--- I know it:). UD you are a gentleman and a great guy as always. Hey quick sidenote are you going to be in LB for the Scope run if so look me up:). KAP NASCAT: I truly like your project and considered this power option due to it's natural aspiration... non-blower setup along with closed cooling which makes it a very attractive set-up in a saltwater environment. I also really like the Skater 30 hull a very versatile and fast combination with various power plants. Your latest post the lengthy version was outstanding and I am not patronizing you it covers details and thought processes into the why and how! An excellent post IMO and I find in most cases brevity means the person is hiding something. So continue to hunt and peck it really is better factually. In addition, when you lay it out like you did it makes sense and speaks volumes for any performance boater reading your thread. I trust and hope your performance numbers meet your expectations and look forward to reading about your speed trial results. Thanks for the Effort, KAP P.S. Skater 30 has an outstanding boat in my opinon---the benchmark/blueprint I would follow/duplicate if I were gonna buy that hull period. To keep it thread related it would be interesting to see his set-up hull & Arnesons coupled to ILMOR power...I'd read that article too and buy the magazine:). P.P.S. Skater 30, Take it easy on the Stainless guy make it look close if you do race him and get the cash up front:) j/kidding. |
Originally Posted by kap328
(Post 3192473)
Nascat:
Thank you, for your expansive explanation on gear ratio selection. I appreciate the process and not the conclusion and I do not care who is providing the end result data so long as they show me the work to back up the claim. If you have so much data concerning the other three ILMOR cats than please share with us what the results were i.e... roll on acceleration numbers, time to plane, 80 to 100MPH times, and top speed etc...and explain how it differs from your intended goal. What are your motors putting out in terms of HP/ Torque any modifications done to the ECU, heads etc... If this is somehow a promotional thread for the ILMOR people than say so rather than referring to post counts and views. If it is... I'm ok with it but the hard facts and the why is what I want to read about. If this is gonna be a cheerleading thread then let me know so I won't bother you with poignant questions to which you are unable to reply or feel slighted. I appreciate your intended goal and read what you wrote. However, if the overall performance of the boat is far superior in an alternate gear ratio--- as a consumer reading a promotional thread it would be something I want to know. Usually, the truth never comes out the parties act much like what Boatless's describes i.e... swept under the proverbial rug in a hush hush manner. I really think your statement about testing is a valid one and your right if this is a test bed for this gear ratio combination than go for it and let us know if it was the right choice. Lastly, what did ILMOR recommend for gear ratio and power in this type of hull given that it is a retrofit project [if it matters at all]. FYI---In April I was considering whether to purchase this type of hull and power it with ILMOR motors 725's but not with INDY drives [I'll pass on being the guinea pig] my first choice would be a proven drive system such as Arneson drives. Then again that doesn't exactly fit the promotional plan now does it:) just messing with you don't get all uptight. KAP P.S. I wasn't aware that spec. SCL cnc cleaver props were rated to 700HP. P.P.S. What is the rev limiter set for your motors? Sorry NASCAT for jumping in your thread like this, I just didn't see the relevance of his attacking You or the people your working with, Sorry......Carry On:drink: |
Wow, I go to bed for a few hours and a Hockey Game breaks out. :) speeddoc needs a nap (Don't worry, I know him.) He has probably the 2 fastest 21' Skaters ever, the twin engine goes over 120 (Thats all I could take :) ) I see the point he's making about what the thread is about and what it turned into though...
NASCAT.......Great Job |
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