So what are the two boats going for??.....the Donzi's usually go for a lot more than anything else in the class and it doesnt matter how good they are in rough water or how cool they are or blah blah blah if they're not in your budget.

do either of these boats have any kind of a cabin??.....can come in very handy after a night of partying on the dock.

did anyone tell you to make sure a survey is in your budget??

How did your conversation go with Ron?

If you need a surveyor for the Apache and one that specifically knows performance boats let me know.... I know one in our area and he recently did a survey on a friends boat and did a very thorough job.

Frank

Crawling around in the Apache last weekend I noticed the boat is laid up in Biaxial cloth which was fairly "uncommon" in the mid 1980's.. I thought that was kinda cool... There is also bulkheads and stringers every couple of feet, just like my 36'. You'll also notice the boat has an aggressive X Dimension for a boat of vintages 1980's... I would estimate the propshaft is roughly 4 inches below the bottom. This can/will come in handy if you ever upgrade power... The ultimate upgrade would be a bravo transom conversion, mated to a Blackhawk drive! ;)

The boat was originally built to be a raceboat but Ron bought it from MRD and used it as a pleasureboat from day one.

I worked on the boat a few times back in the late 1990's when it had the 383' in it.. It has been used on and off over the years and has been sitting for a long time. It definitely needs a good dose of TLC but from what I could tell going thru it myself it appears to be a solid boat. (I was thinking of buying it myself with my sister), so if the survey checks out and the sea trial goes ok, I would pick the Apache hands down.

Here are the rest of the pics I took; http://s706.photobucket.com/albums/w...view=slideshow

That answer reminds me of when I entered a Pokerrun online. 5 minutes later I get a call from the organizer questioning why I wanted to leave with the faster boats and not with the cruisers! :evilb:

IMO the reason the Pachanga was a flop was because it cost nearly double what the competition did at the time. They are very well built and solid.

I would not hesitate to run with any of the boats mentioned...might even smoke em! :party-smiley-004:

There are usually some nice 22Cs between 12-25k, depending on the year. Their price point is roughly the same as the Apache 22.

The cool thing about the closed bow 22 foot sport boats is, they have a huge space under the deck. What some have done is lay a floor and carpet the floor in case of inclement weather, changing clothes, etc. Some have installed lights and fans in there as well. You could sleep in there, but it could get pretty hot.

That would be a great boat if you could buy it right! Youre right, it does need some TLC. I wonder how the stringers and transom are since there is a little water in the bilge.

Good luck with whatever you buy... watch the Avanti they really arent built well.. A neighbor had a 27 with Kaama's and it cracked down the starboard side. He bought a 33 and it fell apart around him.. I am in NJ and lie not far from where they were made..Dennis is a shady guy,.. I also saw a 27 roll in front of me. ( do to driver error.)

In addition to my original reply - and since everybody else is putting in plugs for their favorite 22' boats - I might as well put in a plug for a 22' Progression. I drive one (a 1992) and can attest that it's the next best thing to bullet proof. It's also light, fast, loves rough water (mine spent several years on Lake George) and seems to hold up very well in terms of both construction and resale value.

I saw a 28 Progression with 2 Merc 2.5/280s running in some seriously rough water. I was very impressed. I later checked the boat out, it seemed to be very well built.

There is a Cigarette 21' O/B on the DONZI site if your into O/B. "HIGH LIFE"

My opinion only here...(budget permitting) afew more bucks will get you into a nice/newer turn key dependable BB Bravo ride, in the present boat market.

That 350 MPI ain't got anuff grunt to get that boat out of it's own way! :eek:

You know where I can get a nice 24 Pantera, Cigarette Firefox, or an Active Thunder Tantrum for a good deal? How about a 25 Talon I/O for a few more bucks?

At this time in the game I will be happy just to be on the water...

Hey I drove one of these Cig 21's way back when... there was one for sale here in upstate NY with a 245 hp merc 2.5 carb motor... very nice ride! Asking price about 8 years ago was $13k... it sat for like 4-5 years then I heard it sold for like $7500.

I'll go for that race when I get her... you got seats in your boat yet? LOL!!! Or are you gonna kneel the whole time... or will you be sitting on a milk crate!!!

I am going to cast my vote for a boat not yet mentioned (supprisingly) - The Chris Craft Stinger 222.
They came with a BBC or an SBC, the B1 conversion is dead easy, the X-dimension is 4.5" with a standard depth B1, there's pleny of room to modify the engine, it seats 5 comfortably, theres a cabin with a v-berth, it handles the rough like it's 10 ft longer than it is, it looks cool and with a warm BBC, it'll push 70+ mph no problems.
Am I the only one that actually considers this a good thing?
Why am I the only one to have suggested this boat, does everyone else know something I don't?

Just curious. There aren't many sport boats in Australia like this so my experience and selection is limited.

LOL! I felt the same way about the Pachanga. Unfortunately many diehards see the word SeaRay and Ass u me it is a cruiser! :D

Sorry, no substitutes for 10 feet! Even if it is a stinger 222........ :party-smiley-004:

That's what she said.... :lolhit:

22' Donzi good choice:drink:

Once you go outboard, you will never go back, nothing like the ease(lack) of maintenance on a 2 stroke, especially a stocker EFI, I run with some guys with old 2.5 280's etc, and while they sound cool as heck, and my boat is no rocket(it will hold its own though) I just bump the key on my EFI, and off we go:drink:

+1 Amen to that!

21ft hustler classic bbc
 

milk crate baby keep the boat lite. dont be getting no bigger boat, small squirrel ride!!! Is where the fun is at and no need to look at donzi everyone has one but nice boats. be the only one on lake george with apache scout!!!! stop drag in your feet and go get the thing. 350 mpi with boost light alpha drive and you'll be running in the 70's for sure.

And as you can tell by my screen name, I am a former car guy, Small blocks were my specialty, but I am convinced on outboards for boats.

22' Apache outboard
 

I agree. In this size range I like outboards.

My friend used to own this boat. It was an original Bob Saccenti built 22' Apache. Boat was built like a tank! Handled rough water very well for a 22'.

http://i51.tinypic.com/n37nll.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/2mff8te.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/2ajykqh.jpg

That Apache is a way cool ride . A very unique boat with a lot of history and sharp lines ! I personally like the lines of the older boats in this class better than the a lot of the newer ones.
Looking at the attention your thread is getting,there is a lot of o interest in the smaller boats which is nice to see!!
I have personally revied a few older boats in this class
such as a 1969 Donzi Corsican,and a 1979 Sutphen Super Pacer and most recently a 1971 Wellcraft center console.

Isn't that your boat now JLAY?

WOW, what a COOL boat! I love it! Outboards are great! You can take them out anytime of the year and not have to worry about freezing the block at night!

rchevelle71, OUTBOARDS ONLY for me--- 27 MAGNUM w/twin 300X's & DONZI w/ 200 MARINER... and a spare 300 X in the garage. "HIGH LIFE"

22'
 

I had a 22 Apache Scout 250 Outboard , Boat ran excellent allways landed straight. Only reason i sold it wife wanted a pp. And if Mama aint happy nobody happy

Sweet! How fast would she run????

Just and FYI, it's inconsequential but, the 22' OB and the 22' IO are slightely different.

The deck on the I/O is shorter because they had to move the windsheild and cockpit forward to accomodate the I/O engine and hatch.

Between the original two boats inquired about, the Apache for sure!

This would be my choice, but of course I would ditch the yammy, and mount a merc 250-300:eek::drink::evilb:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frXIamF0_6k

Yes it is, I bought it from Alex in New Jersey and then brought it way down south!:drink: It is def. an awesome boat, love it. GAS, OIL, GO!

You've got yourself a great boat JLAY. Rode in it and drove it.

First couple of pics I posted had the Merc. 300. Last pic had the 300X. When Alex rerigged it with the 'X' it really woke up and ran strong.

I'm not sure what the Apache 22 runs with a 300 on it, but some folks were running a tick over 100 (103 if memory serves me correctly) in 22 Progressions with the 300s on the back. I don't know about you guys, but that's just a bit too fast in any 22' hull. Mine runs about 78 MPH and it's relatively comfortable at that speed. I'm waiting to win the lottery so I can re-rig with a 250 XS. That'll be good for mid-80's.

The Apache is a much heavier hull. In fact it weighs more than twice what the Progression does.

I do not know about any 22', my 22 Eliminator ICC runs almost 130. It is very stable at that speed. It cruises at 100 like a 25 Daytona. Here are a couple of videos.





http://www.performanceboats.com/html...m/DSC01083.JPG

The video of acceleration on the 100mph speedo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqfY5Z2WBWo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je6zHVREC6U

Between the two boats originally mentioned...I would go with the Apache. It has a wider beam and will be more stable at higher speeds.

If you are considering other brands. Look in the Classifieds here on OSO and you have a choice of two 24 Banana outboards for sale.

The black and yellow one runs high 60's with a single 250HO and the black and red one comes with a brand new 300 HP Optimax.

I love mine, though I'm not as happy with the cockpit arrangement (I have three little ones). She will run in the rough stuff "fairly well" though you do have to drive her. The cabin is quite sizeable and I have overnighted on her a few times. She's fast and generally doesn't have a lot of competition from boats in the same size range. I was running just under 80 with my 385. Currently, I'm running a mild 350 and she runs in the mid-60s pretty effortlessly.

I don't think they're built as well as a similar sized Apache or Cigarette (true race boats built in limited numbers compared to boats from other manufacturers).


TZ