Which 22' would you choose?
 

I am looking at buying a boat, I am considering these 2 and I am not sure which one to choose as I like things about both of them... I live on Lake George in upstate NY... 32 mile long lake...

1985 22' Avanti... 320 hp small block trs drive - very clean low hours boat... needs nothing

1987 22' Apache... 350 Mag MPI Alpha SS drive, k-planes, dual ram hydraulic steering - needs TLC

Both boats are priced about the same...

Looking for impressions... the good, the bad, and so forth.

That all depends on whether or not you want to restore a boat, and the difference in price.

I personally didn't choose either of those, I chose a Donzi 22 Classic. They have a 24 degree dead rise, come with big block Chevys, and are beautiful boats.

Between those 2, I would choose the Apache, because it is an Apache and I like to work on boats.

Get a survey. The tlc might be more than you want to take on.

+1

Apache Scout...
http://www.djmikeyc.com/media/web_Scout_collage.jpg

Avanti 22...
http://www.djmikeyc.com/media/22_avanti_collage.jpg

Apache.....

Know the Apache. It's got all the good stuff right there. k planes , external steering. Tried to buy it over 10 years ago and he decided not to sell it. Same guy still has it. Built very solid like it's big brothers.

I agree, get a marine surveyor. This may possibly avoid spending big money in the end. It may also prevent you from ending up with a huge project like this: http://www.seriousoffshore.com/forum...ad.php?t=12248

Personally, I'd stay away from the TRS drive. Heavy, slow, & way more drive than you need for a small block. That also means the Apache will be significantly faster with roughly the same power. Some of the pictures of the Apache make it look like it's in not so great shape though. Remember, they're both getting on in their years. As has been said, a survey may make up your mind for you.

Have you considered a Velocity 22?
Here are a few:
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/boa/1970456988.html
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2002.../United-States

hunster - any idea what kind of external steering that is on that apache? Any idea if those rams are rebuildable if they need it? I am leaning toward the apache because of the setup.

modvp - that is some work he had to do to that hull... I never heard of termites in a boat hull!

too stroked - Your view is right on par with mine... just trying to add up what "might" need to be done to the Apache... vs what will need to be done.

Between those 2 Apache hands down. It needs a ton of work though and will cost you, more than likely, more than it is worth. So, don't do it unless you love it.

Better deal by far is an already done 22 Donzi.

Looking at the setup on that Apache,I would bet this boat was previously rigged with a big block guessing raised x dimension by the looks of the engine hatch and dry exhaust. Probably a high 70 mph-80 mph boat at one time. Steering cylinders look like Hynautic.
Probably a 60 mph boat with a small block now.

I have a scarab 22 with a big block with tabs , with a 1 inch shorty on it , does over 80 mph gps needs a new sun pad thats it. runs great 15500.00 on lale erie , on a small lake it would run great

Donzi. hands down.... owned 1 for yrs... awesome handling boat for its size..and you cant kill them..

+2

I owned a 22 Avanti. It's an awesome hull, same as a 24 pantera but 2 feet shorter. I ran mine in Long Island Sound and then the Pacific ocean. I had a bravo drive, 500+ hp big block and full external hydraulic steering so it would be a totally different animal than what you're looking at. Adding the hydraulic steering made a night and day difference in handling and with the 7 ft beam is definately a "drivers" boat. It was a really fun ride in choppy water and an absolute blast in the pacific when the swells were about 12 seconds apart. That one might be a dog with the small block and trs though. Go for a ride in both of them and see which one works best for you. Good luck

VetteLT193 - yeah I know its going to cost me... trying to tally it all up now... but it will be a unique boat!

blackboat - apache originally rigged with a 383 stroker mid 70's mph back then... you are right as it runs mid 60's now with the 300 mag mpi. Hatch is stock for an apache i/o - thats how they designed them, low freeboard = raised hatch to clear engine... and yes big blocks were available in a scout. Hynautic cylinders... are they rebuildable if needed?

I know i'll catch alot of stuff for this but I have personally seen a 22 Avanti eat up a 22 Donzi classic when the water gets real snotty, but the Donzi is faster in the calmer water.

DaveP - I think I will be getting a survey... need to find a guy in NJ

Buy this 1 its already Lake George tested and get it for about 1/3 of what it cost to put it together.

Dangerous Dave - thanks for the input! I was looking for a first hand experience from someone who owned one. I will test ride them both. Trying to decide which one will be better in the long run... If I wanted to add the hydraulic steering to the avanti... and then a drive train upgrade... were talking big bucks down the road... The Apache already has it all... but it needs attention to it all.

Not even sure I want to ask what its going for!

www.marinesurvey.org or www.namsglobal.org

NAMS or SAMS surveyors are the only way to go

I wouldnt take an Avanti if you gave me 1.. Atleast not if you wanted a boat that is going to hold up... I have ran bye 28 ft cig's and 27 magnums in rough water in my old 22

Baja555 - I know many people have the same attitude as you toward an Avanti... and I have heard many of the stories of the company and the guy who owned it... but... I have never heard of one coming apart, and everyone I know of that owned one they all loved them, most still have them. They kind of have a cult following.

Hey look... I just became a Platinum Member!!! :drink:

I would build a 540 for the Apache if I kept the trs drive and transmission,otherwise build a 434 small block and put a Bravo drive on it .

We love our little Apache.

I own Dangerousdave's old Avanti, somewhat upgraded now; like I said in answer to your PM, great boat. I am not selling it after buying an 32 Activator Stealth, just too good of a boat and not worth more than 15k, I have way more in it than that in upgrades alone:eek:. Never had a similar sized boat stay with it yet in the rough and has no stress cracks (it is an '88 in excellent conditon, most think it is 5 years old :drink:). I probably would not buy the one you are looking at though, not enough engine with too heavy and high drag drive; don't think you will be happy. Dave is correct about hyd. steering too.

SFOcean - thanks for your PM... and your post... I take what you say very highly. I have been leaning toward the apache and after the test rides we will see. I agree I think the Avanti may be too heavy w/ too little motor w/ that drive.

blackboat - the Apache has an Alpha SS drive... TRS is on the Avanti. Thanks for your input though.

Im looking for a Donzi 22 Classic

I have one

what model are you looking for?

OOPS, In that case 1 more vote for the Apache !!

When I got my 1995 Apache it needed alot more work ( and $$$$ ) than I thought. I had a pro in my corner to help with the resto (see avatar) and the end result was a sweet boat BUT, its still old glass and resin. Todays modern construction techs. are far superior than those of 15 years ago. I dont know that I would do it again and as some others have said, take a hard look with eyes wide open.

Look at it from another angle...if it didn't have an Apache
badge attached would the appeal still be there? Hmmmmm...:drink:

21ft hustler classic bbc
 

sorry 21ft hustler classic bbc is the way i would go. but the 22 apache will be good race up lake george i wonder who wins that race.

Apache has the following due to its build quality. It may also be easier to sell an Apache.

Its all who the driver is. You have to know how to drive a 22 foot boat in rough water. The tabs, trim, and throttle have a greater effect in a 22 footer than in a larger boat. I believe learning how to drive a smaller performance boat in adverse conditions will make a person a much better driver all around. You really have to work every aspect of the boat when trying to keep up with a larger performance boat in rough water. It is great training! I love driving a smaller boat in rough water. Attention to safety and small details are paramount when running hard in the rough, especially operating a smaller vessel. You really learn how to "read" the water as well. These are all skills that will directly transfer over when operating a larger vessel.

As for the race that you observed, the Donzi could have had a stock 454/330 while the Avanti had a blown 502 and a nut-job behind the wheel---bla bla bla, you know this, Im just pointing this out.

The Avanti may be a better boat in the rough, I have no idea. I have never driven an Avanti. However, I drive my Donzi 22C in rough water all the time and am very impressed with its performance.

I always tell people that a Donzi 22 Classic is like an old Corvette. It may not be the fastest, best handling, or the most practical boat in the world, but it sure is cool! I have people offer to buy it off of me at the ramp 8/10 times. I never would have believed it if someone told me this would happen, but it does! Its nice to know that I have a boat that may sell quickly if I get into a bind. But as for the people who offer to buy my boat, I'm sure that if I said "show me the money" I wouldn't ever hear from 95% of them again.

I'm surprised no one has put in a plug for my username so I will!

Pachanga,Pachanga,Pachanga! :drink:

PS I would sell you my 87....has all the good stuff now....procharged 454,tabs,twin ram full Hy. steering,etc! The engine has 50 something conservative hrs on it. I have always run it fat and not enough balls to stay in it too long! :eek:

PS PS So I don't get slammed..technically a Pachanga 22 is a 20 footer ...built in swim platform makes it a 22! 22 degree deadrise.

Thanks for the offer but I'm not looking for a sea-ray!

Didn't intend to take anything away from a 22 Donzi.. was not my intent with my post as I almost purchased a Donzi. The Donzi in question has a 496/bravo setup... And you are right I do not know what was in the avanti... but I was impressed to say the least how level that avanti flew and landed... it was almost graceful to watch!