Wow... this thread has seed to take on a life of its own... glad to see so many chime in... some on topic... so not so... but its nice to see the interest in the small boats.

I spoke with the owner today of the Apache today... will be heading down to check it out.

Still think you should take a look at a Donzi 22C just for chits and giggles.

Planetwarmer is right, you will get more compliments on the 22C than any other 22 IMO. :drink:

Of course, I am a little biased..... :)

If you are dead set on the Avanti or Apache, Apache all the way.....

Hard to beat a boat built in Miami during the glory days!

We have all boosted the Apache up so much that you may be blinded. Hopefully it is all we want it to be. Just remember if you end up really liking the design, there are more Apaches than THAT boat if it turns out that it needs too much work than you want to take on.

Im jealous! I would like to be in the hunt for a boat too!

Good luck, and have fun. Now is a great time to be in the market for a boat.

TAKE PICS!!:drink:

Just out of curiosity, does your Donzi 22 "fall off a chine" at low speeds in sharp turns? One of our customers has one that I've been in several times. It's got a 502 with a Bravo and low speed turns at zero trim are downright scary when it falls off of that inside chine. Powerboat Magazine actually flunked one (with an OMC drive) for the very same reason. It was later blamed on too much negative trim in the OMC drive, but as I've said, a boat with a Bravo drive exhibited the exact same behavior with me in it.

No, the donzi tracks awesome

powerboat flunked the four winns copy of the donzi

Mine is actually a Criterion, not a 22. The Criterion was the predecessor to the 22, although several years they overlapped. I just got done putting a 540 in mine and am still testing and propping, but so far, mine does not have those characteristics.

I know of some fast 22C's. One in Florida has a 710 hp Ilmore that has gone 104.

The Donzi Classics (16,18, 22) are kinda of known as "drivers" boats, which is what I love about them. It takes alot of driver input to make them go fast. Planet warmer hit on it when he said the reason the 22C got beat by the other boat is possibly due to the driver. The fun is learning how to make them go fast and knowing you are hitting alot of speed due to your input vs. just the setup. They will go fast, really fast in some cases. Mighty Mouse was kinda a famous 18 that went over 120 with an arneson and SBC. Twin turbo 16 over 100. N/A 16 went over 85. Alot of 22c's are in the 80's without a whole lot of upgrades from factory, and some, like the Shelby edition, goes 84 stock from the factory.

Interesting, and thanks for the very complete reply.

The Progression 22 is also known as a drivers boat. Almost anybody could get mine to the mid 60's. You have to know what you're doing to get it to 78 though. I've always said it's "like driving a Formula 1 car on the street." It's not for everybody, but I love it! And, as I've said before, that's what I love about starting out with small boats.

I agree 100%! Some people simply like to throw the throttle down, give a little trim and go. I like boats that you have to "drive".

The Donzi that you had to "drive" the most was the factory Blackhawk edition. Many considered it down right scary and dangerous. In the right hands though, they are smoking fast.....plus, they threw a HUGE rooster.

Nice to see interest in the smaller boats..... :)

I remember an article on the 22 in some boating mag. Said it leaned like you stated. If I remember the conclusion, they said it had too much power.... WTF??? The test driver simply had no seat time. Plus, is there ever too much power? LOL :)

Powerboat Magazine had a 22 Progression on the cover back in 1992. That's when I fell in love with the boat. They really liked it with a 2.5 EFI. The only problem was that the air wasn't fully bled from the Latham hydraulic steering yet.

How was I to know that I would buy what turned out to be the very next 22 out of the mold about 4 years later. It's absolutely the best boat I've ever owned and definitley the most fun to drive. And let me tell you, I've driven literally hundreds of boats because I work at a marina.

It does upper 70s with the 2.5? I always wondered what a 22C would do with a 2.5.

I know what people are talking about when turning very sharply when coming off plane. It really never feels scary to me, or that Im ever out of control. I have never felt like the boat was going to sink due to a low speed turn. Now the passengers, I doubt they would agree with me. It is a driver's boat.

Gotta love outboards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAuE1E39c_M

It does 78 MPH with a Diamond Marine modified 2.5/200. (It dynoed at 238 HP) With a 2.5/265 (Powerboat cover boat) it did mid 80's. With a 2.5/280 screwed to the back, it should run 90ish.

As for the Progression "falling off a chine," it doesn't do it. The Donzi 22 I rode in did - and really got my attention.

There was a Progression here in NJ that delaminated the bottom, it was a race boat. The bottom was balsa cored.

But they do run very nicely!!

i am shopping for my first power boat and i am considering the Donzi 22c or a Nordic 22 evolution. i want a bigger boat one day but i want to start out small to learn how to drive a high horsepower boat.

SO! everyone always talks about top speed but what about daily cruising?

for me, what speed does the Donzi 22c (or any 22ft boat w/
IB-OB V8) plane off at? do i have to run 40mph all the time? unfortunately i have never ridden on one of these. my experience is my OB fishing boat and my cousins v6 Trophy.

Donzi all the way.. unless you want alot of cockpit room.. By far the funnest boat in the size range ,,.. And they tend to hold their value..

.

My Criterion planes at 21 mph with tabs. Will cruise 30 all day. 22's should be about the same.

The 22 went through several engine and drive packages. First was the 330 hp 454 in the 80's with the TRS. TRS is a big drive and takes power to turn one. Ealry 90's saw the King Cobra with Ford power OMC 460. Then Merc, with 330 hp 454 and a higher 454 mag coupled to a Bravo. Then, the 502 boats with Bravo or Bravo XR. Then the 496 boats, and finally, back to the 502 this year, although Donzi is in limited production with new Classics.

All were capable of 60+ mph. 502's and 496's were easily capable of over 70. Some, like the Shelby and 009 boats with a higher X were capable of 80+. The general consensus is the 502 415hp boats are the most sought after.

You will need to learn how to use the trim tabs if you want to go under 30. The 22Cs lope along at 35 just fine. Keep in mind, that 35mph feels very different in a sport hull than it does in other types that are designed to run 40mph max. It really feels like a slow crawl at 30-35.

great info, thanks for the reply's!:coolcowboy:

Here is a heck of a deal.........

http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...tphen-outboard

I had a 95 22 apache scout,had a long shaft 260 offshore outboard that would top out at 74 mph throwing everything at it to increase speed, was too slow for me and was kinda boring.. after I bought it I found out it was built by Regal, not sure what year the molds were sold to them but was quite a let down

Are you sure it wasnt a Velocity?? never heard of Regal making Apaches:bigbird::eek:

If you like SOB's:rolleyes:

yes, I stopped by Apache in Miami and talked to Bob, he told me they sold them. Had a great indian /war bonnet on the side though..
It was built in Panama City I think he said..

I think it was Century that built the last 22 Apaches. Molds went to Blountstown FL then to GA . I drink a lot so don't hold me to it. :)

I think your right, now I remember hearing something like that. Regal is in Orlando I believe.

Here's the story! I had a 17 sutphen with a BBC stroker and jet drive last summer, fast fun boat but i was always wanting a lil more boat for the waves. Then the Avanti 22' comes up for sale on CL and is 10mins from where i live!!!! I go look at the boat and was shocked on how well is was kept and the trailer was in great shape as well.. bad news the interior was shot, ****ty carpet sunpad and rear seat cracked etc but the boat was soild and fresh water use 98% of it's life... so i put the sutphen up for sale. I end up trading it for An M5 Bmw and!!!
525i Bmw!!!!!i wanted the cash but it was a killer trade....
it's all about timming....right when the end of the season started i put my C5 vette up for sale all wacked out low miles etc.. etc. i get a bite from a midlife wackjob who brings all 5 kids under 12 and the wife and the minivan and buys the Vette from me Cash!! Score!! a lil extra cash and the avanti is looking insight... i drive by the owners house everyother week to see if the boat had moved or maybe even sold but it stayed in the same spot on the side of his house with these 2 barn doors blocking 99.9% of the boat. I wait and wait and wait and then 1 week before my birthday on Jan 29 with some snow flakes in the air i call the 70 year avanti owner and then go buy the boat for Cents on the dollar.
The boat is then brought to my shop and i have been working on it since.
Going to use it for this summer and more Hp/tranny build for next year.
before i splash the boat i will post before and after pics!

Is that 22' Apache still for sale?

Not sure! but that lil 22 apache did have some good rigging to start..just wonder how many times that hull has been air born:eekdrop:!
The Avanti that i bought has the drop out bolsters insted of the sit down in the apache and other stuff i just liked more than the apache. to each his own.
There are some killer deals out there!!!

There's a nice, fully sorted 22' Progression in Scream & Fly. Having ridden in both the Progression and 22' Apache, I can tell you the Progression is lighter, faster and generally better built. Check it out:

http://www.screamandfly.com/showthre...ot-Progression

I sure could buy a LOT more boat than that Progression for $45k.

Your Avanti is a good looking boat...Post some pics on the 25 and under pics section..Mines the black Chaparral villain 3 second to last page on the bottom.I like the 22' 80's boats.Suer would like to se more pics of yours.

Interesting comment. That price is actually quite reasonable considering what you get for hull design, performance and construction. For instance, the bare hull on that boat weighs something like 1,250 pounds due to the construction techniques used. It comes with a 10 year hull warraty. It's also faster than almost any other 22 out there with comparable power.

True, you get more "features" on a Sea Ray, but in the performance boating world, construction that will take a pounding year in and year out costs a lot of money. Good luck!

I agree, A couple nice seats, good gauges, and that's about it. Spend your money on the engine, and hull. You don't need all the fancy leather and sh*t in order to have a nice boat. It may look pretty bare bones (but make it clean), but you will be able to kick a** out on the water where it really counts.

Interesting,That Progressive is a goog looking boat.A little cramped in the cockpit.The light weight is a plus..I wonder how it compares to a Stingray?

This should be good! Happy Easter!

Yeah- but what are you really getting for your money?

Im somewhat familiar with progressions. Is a Sting Ray vacumm bagged?

Layup,(vac bagged) and componentry, and rigging are all nice.

About the only thing you can say about progressions is that their "old school"/ cLassic/ paint scheme is what it is.

Im a West Coast guy, but progression makes a nice machine if you can live with the looks.

UD

If you're talking construction and rigging, a Stingray doesn't even come close. As somebody else said though, Kevin (Progression) doesn't build the most stylish boats, but he builds them for performance. The construction and rigging are top notch though. Stingray is strictly a regular production boat with no special hand layup, vacuum bagging etc. If you look up the difference in weights, you'll be astounded.

And I should add that any good high performance boat will weigh significantly less, yet be significantly stronger and faster.

I didn't intend to criticize the construction or quality of the boat.

You can find a completely rerigged and painted boat that looks brand new in the 28-32 foot range with fresh power for that kind of money. You can find a NICE 24 Skater for that money.

I noticed a completely re-rigged, new interior, new stereo, new carpet, new floor, blueprinted bottom, etc 2003 Hydrostream Vegas on a trailer that runs 96mph with a stock 250 E-tech for $14k and the guy would probably take less. That boat has similar cockpit room, much better colors, nicer interior, and will likely walk off from that Progressive with ease.

I also think that color is ugly as heck and makes the boat look 15 years old. Your blue scheme looks very nice, btw.