Just Curious
 

As I move around the board I see a lot of people on here that are "Registered"
Absolutely not bashing or having any negative opinion re these folks , just curious.

In a lot of the cases some of these folks have been here a long time and are really active and injecting great input, so I dont understand why they would remain as non paying.

I've seen people say that they cant post pics etc. when they wanted to expand on a point or participate in a topic that required pics.
There are some sections here you cant read without being more than Registered and again it makes me wonder with those that spend so much time on here and obviously enjoy the banter , why they would want to miss any of it.


Not negative...just curious.

if i could afford to pay i would...

Valid and interesting question. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but will be curious to see how everyone responds.

I "discovered" OSO about 4 years ago so haven't been around as long as some. At first I found it to be a great source of information and so was happy to pony up the entrance fee.

As time went on though I grew tired of the endless bashing. It seemed like every disagreement degenerated into name calling and threats...some veiled and some not so veiled. When IB took over it seemed to get even worse.

I've always been of the opinion that boaters need to look out for each other, and that opinion has been verified time and time again on the water. Boaters, in general, are the most friendly and helpful group of people you'll ever hope to run across. I grew up boating with my dad from a young age, have stepped away from the hobby a couple of times over the years, but always seem to come back. Time on the water is great of course, but it's the people that really make it what it is.....a great hobby/sport for just about anyone who wants to participate.

I don't see that camraderie (for the most part) on OSO. Sure, there are some great people here and some very knowledgeable folks willing to help one another and share their vast knowledge. Unfortunately all that gets lost when the vocal minority are monopolizing threads with their keyboard cowboy antics. I'm fairly active on a couple of other boating forums where this sort of behavior is either frowned upon or not tolerated at all. If/when OSO moves in this direction then I'll be glad to become a dues paying supporter again, but I don't care to read about who hates who, and I especially don't want to get drawn into that sort of rock throwing contest ever again. In the meantime I'll just lurk and hope to occasionally find something worth reading out of the thousands of worthless posts.

Every time my membership runs out, I decide Im not going to renew. I usually fold within a couple days because I cant see something or cant post in certain areas.

At less than 13 cents a day (Platinum Membership), its really cheap entertainment for me since I rarely watch TV. :cool-smiley-011:

Money's tight and I can get the info I want off of here, besides there's several other boating sites I'm more active in that are free.

I have a strong opinion on this...

Many if not all of the forums I usually use, are free (car, boat, sports, etc)...Why pay for this one. Does paying make this forum better than the free ones? The answer is no.

I cant substantiaing the cost of membership to view, or participate in something that is usually free. Also the advantages of the membership are pretty minimal. An expanded inbox and the ability to write in certain forums? Thats not much. Pictures can be loaded by non-paying users using photobucket. Sooo thats a non issue.

If you think about it simple mindedly...Members are paying money to a third party to share "there own" ideas. Doesnt make sense to me.

I fully understand OSO charging for businesses to advertise, etc...Never understood why they take money from the contributors.

To be honest...If this was a paysite forum only; your forums would be pretty bare. Sometimes wealths of knowledge doesnt cost money.

$24.95 a year for Gold membership.

I have 4 websites.
SuperNova19.com and SuperNova24.com
Are two sites I built for many reasons. The main thing was saving the forgotten history and getting the recognition that they deserved.
ChineWalking.com
Was built just to get around the cliques that most sites have. It may be different boat lines or fisherman Vs sail boaters, cruisers Vs drag boats, outboards Vs inboards or V drives, Volvo’s, Mercruisers, glass, wood, etc, etc, etc…….. If it floats you are welcome at CW as long as you follow one golden rule. No personal attacks. We are all grown ups. Being I grew up sailing with my grandmother, like to fish on occasion, owned many junk boats (you could watch waves roll down the floor of one), have 3 boats that don’t have less then 350hp apiece including a 1968 Nova24 race boat with twin 454s to a single prop I’ve seen it all and don’t care what you’ve got. If it floats all’s good.
RockwoodBeach.com
I built it for my neighborhood sitting around drinking beer one day. Main objective, free boat ramp key. That and maybe helping my neighbors and myself keep our housing’s value up just ever so slightly.
So I pay enough to the boating gods.

I am a paying member, but the question I have that many might... where does the money go? OSO is owned by a private company that is not involved in boating and aside from the members is not really involved in the sport. I have been to many races and a few poker runs and don't see an OSO presence......

well theres alwayz SOS !!!!! :lolhit:

no site that compares to this one and the wealth of knowledge ....if it was double the coin $$$ it would still be worth it :drink::drink::drink:

U just want in the porn section!!!!! fess up!!!!1:evilb:

Hey I pay and have never been told of that section... Any money back options:evilb:

mmmmm a porn section !!!! :eek: well chit man see ya over there :lolhit:

i reckon there are quite a few free sites for this thing called "porn"

I participate in a number of forums. Most are free, some have an upgraded pay option. There really isn't anything on here that I can't get somewhere else for free. For me, there really isn't much incentive to pay a premium for a membership, just to argue about politics. I can do that on another forum with people that are more educated on the subject.

Re: posting pics - I just use a photobucket account. Works fine for what I do. Sure, I'd like to have a picture of my boat next to my screen name, and be able to upload pics, it's just not worth $25 a year to do it for me.

Also, I can't stand things that need maintenance and "run out." My boat is bad enough with dockage, winterization, maintenance, this little thing, that little thing, etc. I don't need one more thing adding to the tab and adding to the frustration of boating. I come on here to relax, and I don't want this thing "coming due"... It just feels like another bill at that point, and I get sick of messing with things like that, even if they are cheap.

That's probably my fault more so than IBs. IB/Heather have always been gracious and sent me t-shirts/coozies, any time that I have asked for them (such as for the Baja/Checkmate party last year) and they tried to sponsor one of the local poker runs as well. They are happy to get involved when asked .... I just didn't ask since I didn't travel as much this year. Coulda woulda shoulda .....

:(

I come here to read and talk about boats and look at boat pics. I can do all that with a free membership. Why would I care about putting money into IBs pocket? Yeah its fairly cheap but there is plenty of other stuff I can buy with the $40.

Pay? I can understand trying to get members to pay for the site if it was NOT ad supported, but OSO is now supported by A LOT of advertising...so you want to charge the advertisers and us? Doesn't make sense. I am sure you tell the advertisers that you have "X" amount of visitors and charge them accordingly.

No thanks, too many other options without the OSO gang-up if you don't have enough posts or some long time member disagrees with something posted.

+1.... traffic free or paid raises their site value.


I was comp'd one year as VIP by Steve (after putting a deal together for him) and I paid for one year (VIP/Plat. can't remember). I am truly a cheapskate that hates paying for anything that my parents never paid for! Think about it, satellite radio, cell phones, cable, internet, alarms etc....all the stuff that your parents never had to pay for. It adds up! I have two kids and they have the fantasy of each getting Ipads for Christmas. The purchase price doens't irk me as much as the monthly fee! Lucky for them my wife has a sizable income and I don't usually see 1/2 of what she buys.

I enjoy the site as well as others and don't miss the "uncensored" section and don't really post pics anyway so for $40 what am I missing? Interesting enough, Steve made it impossible to view any pictures without a membership just before he sold it (so I joined). I wouldn't miss the $40 if it was going to someone I know, but IB.....nope.

The $40 doesn't equate to increased value for the user yet the traffic/thread contribution adds value to IB.

No refunds- official policy.
Now that you officially know about it, maybe it's time you posted in the 'wives and girlfriends' thread. :evilb:

I agree with Ray (emilsr). If I paid a membership to every message board that I'm a member of, it'd be probably be several hundred bucks a year (at least). I have a seperate folder in my bookmarks just for message boards (cars, bikes, boats, trucks, drag racing, etc.).

I was a member of a message board/car club for f-bodies that was free and that started out with 13 of us guys. I had for years paid for the club's picnics, car cruises, meetings, etc to help support the club. When membership hit 4,000+ members in ten years, they decided to start charging $25/yr dues to read the message board and told me I had to pay too. I said I'd still pay for the activites instead of paying "dues". They said no and I haven't been back since. Their loss since they have to pay hundreds a year for the activities out their "dues" now :lolhit:

I agree with much of what you have said, "you grew tired of the endless bashing and name calling and threats" etc. It is unfortunate because there really isn't any need for that kind of behavior on this site. There are a handful of them here who always have to talk smack and many ego's. I beleive in freedom of speech, which is every one's right, I just think that they go over board and ruin the forums by being like that and it turns people off from this site. In cases like this, it is best to just ignore them and there comments, which is also your right to do. I use to subscribe to several Performance Boating Magazines each year but now I just subscribe to one. To me OSO has everything that I'm interested in and it is well worth the cost of my membership to make sure that this sites is maintained. OSO is educational and at times entertaining and is well worth the cost to me.

VtSteve ... for 6mos. ;)

$44.95 for 1yr Platinum

I just re-upped my membership after 1yr+ registered. Missed certain areas and features :)

If I started paying again I would post in the politics forum and just get banned again and lose the money like the last three times. Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent.

Then don't post in the politics.:eek:

Catastrophe It's a legit question and I'm going to answer it from both sides of the coin.

1st I'll answer it as forum member. The membership / and their participation in the website is what gives the site it's value. Think about that for a second. Less people / less advertising dollars. Less people smaller site / less information. Less people the place is worthless. The value of the website as a whole comes from your participation / my participation and everyone elses participation.. Every time a post is made on here it raises the value of this place some fraction of a cent.

As a forum member I ask myself, why would I pay to bring value to someone elses table? It doesn't make sense..


Now here's the other side of the coin the forum owner.

I own one of the largest, and by far and away the most participated in, performance boating forum on the west coast. www.riverdavesplace.com

Being a poster first I couldn't imagine fleecing my membership for money. If the site is worth it's salt that's what the advertisers are for..

As a forum owner though I see this place and I'm jealous to no end.. You see our main site on the west coast was Hotboat (RIP), and because it was free it more or less set the standard. People are used to it and nobody is going to pay. If I were to take away privileges and charge to get them, people would just run to PB.. If PB did it, they'll all just goto my site. So we are in a catch 22.. If myself and PB both charged someone else will just start a free one.. LOL

If I could get 1/3rd of my membership to pay 40.00 a year like here I'd have an extra 70K in my pocket each year. I'd have to have a porn section or something to charge for though, and more or less "add" things, because I'm not in a position where I could take anything away.. If I did again everyone would just run to PB..

At the end of the day though.. Forum owner / and poster.. If the membership brings the value to the site, then charging for membership just seems like "double dipping" to me.

Make no mistake though, and remember that "jealous to no end" comment above.. If I figure out a way that I could sell a membership on the West coast and get away with it, I'll do it in 2 seconds flat.. I believe PB would as well. LOL

This is just more what people are used to then anythign else.. Where I'm from nobody is used to paying.. Over here people are used to it, and it's frowned upon if you don't. (on some level)

I wish I could get my membership to have that sentiment.. LOL Make my toy fund a lot bigger a lot faster! :D

RD

Once you go VIP, you never go back...

I believe this non-paying trend is a reflection of how things have changed, and are still changing...
Now before anyone takes exception, remember I was in on the early pages of Xcav8r's "real WAG" thread some 8 years ago... :drink:

The sport is dying. A slow death but death nontheless.
The "big days" as in easy $ days of the 90's that carried over by momentum into the new millenium, that was the lifeblood of the perf boat sector/demographic are gone and never to return...
That same demographic is now 10-15-20 years older, and for many the "hardcore" "dedicated to this" days have run their course as is often the case with hobbies and interests. Life changes and interests change- it's wholly natural really...
Yes, many will hang on 'cause... well, the good fast times and the memories associated are hard to let go...

the great majority, if they are staying in, aren't buying new perf boats! If they are buying it's comfort and something more all-around usable.
Or like myself looking at waterfront and a center console!?
Think about it...if you love the WATER so much (which your years perf boating certianly cemented) the natural progression of the love of the water is to live waterfront, at least seasonally, and be happy to be there, and on the water in something utilitarian and easy to keep.
Only so many hours in a day, and frankly I'd like to spend more time relaxing and less time taking care of all this stuff that doesn't pay you back in value.

also, not alot of new blood coming in to the sport either!
exhorbinant costs, tight money- you get it.

The whole feel changed here when Steve sold. Some of you will say it's still here but it's not. (see above about wanting to hang on...)
Some of the members remain, but the "feel" that this was something exclusive amongst us?
NOPE- gone
gone corporate which many of us after the last 20 years in this country just have an inherant distaste for...

Smart guy that Steve cashed out just right as very much of the writing above was already on the wall.

bottom line:
I belong to at least one forum for each of my interests...
there is nothing "spectacular" here to be the only one I pay for.
I have NO trouble sharing info and assistance anywhere I don't get charged, and yup, you can get porn and politics anywhere

been up all night and may not have been the most eloquent with my post but I can't imagine I'm the only one!

Interesting thread.

Few short points and I'm done:

- There is a sense of entitlement in some response that is frighteningly misguided in a free enterprise society. If all had that thinking this site would not exist, period.

- Just like life and evolving in society if idiots show up or post, move away and ignore, "don't feed the troll". No one is obligated to keep reading anything.

- Most business connection in my professional life have been made or are tied to people I have met here. I would not say that being here on OSO gets all the credit but it facilitated a lot of dealings.

- I have met and become friends with the greatest, most trustworthy and reliable friends on this site. The odd idiot shows up just as in life, I then just deal with it for what it's worth.

- The benefits I have gotten from relationships built on this site cannot be evaluated in dollars.

- If you see no value in a fee for keeping this site going by contributing and taking advantage of all this, maybe your not using this tool right... But that is your right!

As Forrest Gump says, " That's all I have to say about that"

I disagree with your word choice.

Not 'dying'... evolving. Just like everything else in life.

I prefer to take a wider view. People are always going to love boating and being on the water, and a good percentage of those people are going to want to go fast.

And, I'm with GLH on the membership thing. Can't put a price on the friendships I've made here.

Ditto on that one Jay :drink::drink:
official policy:eek:

Let me continue the conversation since I asked the original question. And believe me, all this is just chatter and is none of my business...just curious.

I dont understand the " anti corporate " issue. The minute you walk out the door every day of your life you spend your money with corporations, the purchase of your food, your gasoline,your insurance,your clothes, your fast food etc.
Thats life. A lot of the members on here earn their daily living working for corporations.

Re value received. I see an awful lot of the folks on here working on their own boats. I see them ask tech questions and query where to get good deals on parts and labour.
In all cases they get good answers. I see it. They say thanks . Are these savings and help not worth anything?

Re entertainment value. I see huge post counts for some of the "registered" peeps, so I presume they spend a good amount of time on here. What is that worth.

Finally......do people not think that the FREE feature is available because a lot of people actually DO pay ?
Is the FREE feature here because the people that advertise on here have to pay extra ( as do the paying members) to cover that cost?

Is there a scenario that if everyone paid perhaps the fee would be $15.00 for everyone instead of $40.00 to $70.00 for some and none for others?



Can people that are reading this thread please indicate how much time they spend on here each week.

Winter chatter.....nothing more.

Cat,I couldn't agree more. I have only been a member for a few years,and the technical knowledge/advice I have received is priceless. Not to mention the deals that have been put together. When my 312 Fastec got totaled,I was left with the hull specific trailer,pretty small buying group to say the least.Posted it on here,sold it a week later to a member two states away,along with a ton of parts. I also bought my 382 from a paying member here. Other members knew the boat as well,and chimed in to give there opinions on it,somewhat of a free survey. I was also looking to try a new set of props and not sure who to use.After researching all of my options here on OSO,went with BBlades and never looked back. I could go on and on,but the bottom line is this site has been responsible for thousands and thousands of dollars in transactions in my case,and the money saved/spent is peanuts compared to the $40-$70 it cost to be a member. RunninHots porn and the free t-shirt isn't bad either. Happy Holidays to all,(especially the paying members).:drink:

I am glad that you feel the money is worth the membership...I appluade that...

My point is that other forums provide the same benfits and they are FREE.

I've been on OSO since 2001. 2001-2006 as 29Fever. 2007 - current as Baja_302. Since I change boats like underpants I need to stop naming myself after them.

One down side to paying is if you do not re-up within a certain time frame you lose your screen name. I reregisterd a few years ago and just recently bought a membership again to dig in for the winter.

I come and go in spurts. Usually depends on how busy work is. I can spend 6 hours a day on here sometimes and then go 6 months without visiting. I will say it's always the first place I go when I have a question. And 9 times out of 10 it's the only place I need to go! Thanks to all.

Interesting thread, and great, valid comments on both sides of the point of view. Since I'm in the marketing/advertising business, with a specialty in direct-to-consumer (direct marketing) customer acquisition, retention and loyalty for large global brands -- I have a pretty deep hands-on and quantifiable (ROI) view of the overall issue.

Overly simplified, Answering the "paid" vs. "non-paid" membership program questions boils down to two basic things;

1. Do you want to establish a membership base that is in some way defined (as a group) based upon their level of enthusiasm, consumer profile, engagment and expectations from being a member (i.e. membership profile influenced by the price of entry, with those who pay being "more enthusastic" and having higher expectations from being a member). This has a significant impact on the value to potential advertisers addressing the membership base, and what advertising costs.

2. As the "owner" of the membership venture, what is the value of membership you seek to deliver? If the overall goal is simply to provide a forum/location/place for like-minded individuals to socialize, share information, and generally hang out -- then the value comes from the members (not delivered by the organization). Thus, hard to charge a fee for that.

If the organization wants to deliver a higher value of membership, with information, product/service offers, and other things that are perceived as exclusive to the membership base -- that's where the art/science of establishing a monetary value for membership enters the picture. This also takes a great deal more effort by the owners of the organization -- to seek and secure, and keep the overall value proposition fresh and relevant to the member base.

That's the simple version.

I2D

I haven't upgraded because this is the only boating forum I participate in that requests it. The income should come from the advertisers. If payment were mandatory then the membership would drop hugely as folks moved to the free forums. People posting here without paying raise the value of this site. Facebook is said to be worth 50-60 billion $ and it is free. I'm more active on the Donzi specific forums anyway.

Good post In2Deep.

I agree with the others on the advertising part. People can pay for HBO and don't have to watch commercials or they can watch network TV for free but have to put up with commercials but they'll be damned if there's a channel they'll pay for and have to watch commercials.

Here is another consideration that no one has mentioned. I was once a paying member, when the membership was up, I got no PM, no e-mail, no reminder of any sort saying hey do you want us to renew you? we have your card on file, just ok it. If they had I might have renewed but as a procrastinator, renewing on my own is just something I never got around to. After years, I drifted away from Powerboat mag the same way.

Like others said, I find it pretty funny they want people to pay for the privilege of adding the best content like pictures? Content drives hits, which draws advertisers, which should (in my humble opinion) be the main source of income.

If there wants to be a pay section for dirty pics :evilb:, elite bonding, whatever, that's fine. A lot here can afford that. I prefer spend my money otherwise, as that type of stuff is available free elsewhere on the net.

Weather you pay to be here or just visit the site and it's advertising sponsors, you contribute.

I would personally feel better if it was owned by a group of enthusiasts putting their earnings into poker runs, or just generally back into the sport. Nothing against corporations, but for an enthusiast forum it just makes more sense to me.