Fiat Fpt Diesel 560 Hp 1000+tq
 

Look's like a decent motor and is about 1400 lbs . they use them over sea in quite a few race boat's . i think with a muiltiy speed tran's and some surface drive's this mite be the ticket , from what i was told not sure if it's true or not that they make the block's for the 5.9 cummin's ,
these motor's are 6.7 L 560 hp @ 3000 rpm and a touch over 1000 lbs tq @ 2000 rpm .
full throttle 28 gph
2000 rpm cruise 8 gph
here's a link to some spec's
http://www.mshs.com/pdf/N67%20560%20Brochure.pdf

who has any more info

thank's
mike

Your right about the Cummins. Outerlimits built a SV52 with four of them and Twin Disc drives/Arneson.

Mike,

If you are using the boat here in the states stick with Cummins 480hp don't be foolish for a few extra hp - how easy or quickly do you think it will be to get service for them here or warranty?

Boats only break when you want to use them, not before, so the time to get back boating is the number one problem people have.

To repair the iron itself is the quickest part of any repair, it's the getting the tech scheduled to come look at it, ordering of parts and getting him back to intsall them - Cummins has the largest marine diesel dealer network in North America.

Cummins will have their version at the Miami boat show.. Not as much hp though.

The FPT's are good value, basically a stroked 5.9 to 6.7L and they can give you a 600-620 hp map..

Rik do you know if its going to be under the Cummins name or does Mercury have something to do with it?

6.7l is what the new Dodges are if I am not mistaken

The bore and stroke are different than a 6,7 L Cummins ,also the rpm is 400 lower than a cummins ,FPT / Fiat has a joint venture with Cummins ,I saw these motors first time in Italy at Fabio Buzzi,a few years ago ,and they had 4 of those in a large V bottem with Trimax drives which looked awesome

anyone know the price on the 480 hp cummins ?

the retail price on the fpt 560 hp is $ 33 k and change from a dealer down here in
ft lauderdale

thank's
mike

Please don't anyone take what I said about FPT as a knock on their product, it is first rate.

My concerns are you take a diesel boat and run it all around, up & down like Bob the Builder does and if you have a problem you could have trouble getting service because of a not so robust dealer network.

that's what i was worried about , but i will be boating up and down the coast from westpalm to miami and the dealer in ft lauderdale does the warranty work .
im not saying that im buying one or the other at this time im just doing research rite now .
i was also told not sure if it's true that fpt build's the motor's for cummin's so i would think if that's the case they should have a pretty stout motor .
it's funny that fpt also has a 5.9L model in there line up of motor's

THANK'S
MIKE

The Cummins "B" series engines 4 & 6 cly were a joint venture bewteen Case and Cummins, if you looked at an old Case backhoe you would see a "B" looking Case diesel in it. Cummins has always had license agreements with other engine builders around the world to make their products under other names.

As far as is the FPT a Cummins or is the Cummins an FPT, my money is it all comes from Cummins first.

You are so right, Joe. I had an issue that needed looking at when in the BVI and there was a Yanmar Service Center at Virgin Gorda Yacht harbor less than 10 miles from where I was staying. I will sacrifice a few MPH any day to have a product that can get serviced or fixed in short order.

Interesting article.


http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...car/index.html

Steve,

Cummins has always been a leader in on highway vehicles, the first with many things that is why they have dominated the truck engine market for so many years (yes, Detroit and even Cat have had some good years but year over year shear qty goes to Cummins).

It will fall under the CMD banner

Ain't know way know how that motor is burning only 8 gallons an hour at 2000 rpms. One again the great diesel fairytale.

The SV52 OL from England that ran in the Around LI race had 4 of those in it. Unfortunately they only had a few hrs of testing time on a brand new boat, and the new boat bugs bit it. At one point they were running 103, once they get it sorted out it should run better than that. Awsome boat and crew.The boat is specifically designed for endurance racing. There is some video of it running on you tube.

I rode up to OL right after that race to see the boat up close and see what happened.

It's really nice boat, I can't explain how nice - I fell in love with it!

Anyway, the engines were not the failure and I expect to see that boat running like hell next year!

Its somewhat of a learning curve on diesel set ups. Gear ratio, tranny and type of higher rev motors all play a crutial part in the dialing in process. I my self had Yanmars like Bob, but would look at Cummins next...but then I will not want an NXT drive... I prefer the Arneson...thats when it comes less attractive price wise when you cannot package the two...Like Habana mentioned, Dealer networking is extremely important. Good Luck. Jeff

Jeff, I always admire you and respect you but I have to say you are dead wrong about the diesel learning curves.

Diesels absolutley 150% dominated Class 1 and US Open Class when they came over here for years. The learning curve was 27 years ago and perfected 25 years ago.

People just do not want to look at what history has taught them. Like Sonic said the OL ran 103 mph with 4-560hp and it appears people think that is great!

The Gancia ran 104mph with 4-600hp Seateks in her in 1988 and those are heavy mechanical engines that can not compare to the FPT's the OL has in it.

Add the fact that the OL is light years ahead of the Gancia in terms of hull design and construction - what the OL (I don't mean OL the factory but the boat owners) did in my book almost embrassing. The fact that it broke down and why it broke was a simple error in gear design (not OL, not FPT) - an error that was corrected by PatW, ZF, Buzzi, the Diesel Dancer guys and a couple more over 20 years ago is just a poor understanding of engineering and history - that is my opinion. (I hope they were not Pat's boxes, I never asked you made them?)

Now, those Brits are smart and will get it right and that boat will absolutely be the boat to destroy Buzzi but you can't go ahead in anything until you understand where you have been.

I have what is left of money tied up in different things that not for the downturn in the economy I would be OK today, not great but OK, I could at least put gas in my fishing boat - LOL!

I see things picking up soon (I hope) and when I can, I will build the diesel record boat and would love to have guys like you and Bob the Builder run with me. Why build it, because I'm stupid and I'll pour way to much money in to something again and again to prove a point. I believe in the diesels and I know what to do with them, PatW could hook you up tomorrow with the right boxes, RIK has the drives and if you wanted NXT drives PatW could make you the right boxes.

I may not be up on all the new electronics that diesels run today, I'm a dinosaur but props, gear ratios and drives don't know electronics from old style Cummins PT pumps as Kitami used to say "same-same"

Excellent read!

Use Weismann's 4 or 6 speed transmissions then all you have to do is play with the props.

http://www.weismann.net/offshore.html

it say's it got that OL to 112 mph . that's pretty quick in my book , but they didn't say if they where using multi speed tran's thow .

also 1.5 mpg @ 90 mph but that's with 4 motor's so if you had say 2 motor's and cruised @ 60 mph i wonder how much fuel you will burn ? if you where to take the 1.5mpg and x by 2 for half the motor's that's 3 mpg. and say a slower cruise speed of 60 mph wouldn't be bad fuel burn for the average boater
also in say a 40 to 45 ft boat

mike

They do not have multi speed tranys in the OL. They run four SCS drop boxes and crash boxes. I think the best we've got out of the boat was 114 on a pass.

Mike,

It has to do with how much Hp it takes to go that speed, the engines burn 212 grams per kW hr. At 60 mph maybe your at 60% power say 275kW?

275 x 212 = 58,300 grams or 2056 oz divide by 16 and that's 128.5 lbs or 18 gals/hr and that making 370Hp ea or a total of 72 gal/hr.

I think my math is a little off, that much power and you would probably be in the 80 mph.

I'm guessing 60 mph like you asked is 200kW so
200 x 212 = 42400g = 1495oz = 93lbs = 13.5 gal or 53 gal/hr total

with the new style of fuel injection i think they get better fuel mileage , the 480 cummins list 25 gph@ 3400 rpms and the fpt list 28 gph @ 3000 rpms .
i think i remember the eliminator 43 twin cummins boat running 70 to 75 mph top speed and that would be 50 gph @ 3400 rpms so to cruise @ 60 mph it should be burning a bit less then that i would think .

thank's
mike

Mike I know I didn't answer your question exactly and it had nothing to do with old vs new engines, it was more me putting too many variables into the answer i gave you - I'm sorry I get carried away!

To answer you, I took the fuel consumption right from FTP's site, you said 2 engines but I played it out for the 4 engine boat but for your 2 engine boat it most likely would be somewhere between 27 gal/hr and a max of 36 gal/hr for your 60 mph cruise.

Whay the range - I'm trying to figure how much Hp to go that fast, I know it will take about the full 380hp we used to have to make a SH 40 fully loaded in patrol boat trim, that has to weigh close to your Fountain cruiser? So, at FPT's burn rate of 212 grams of diesel to make 1 kW of power then convert all that back to gal/hr and you're at roughly 18 gallons per hour. Times 2 is 36 gals per hour.

I'm guessing the Fountain might be lighter and probably a better hull you might be down to the lower 200kW per engine to get to 60mph hence the lower 13.5 gal/hr or 27 gal/hr total.

That is where I think you will be a low of 27gal/hr and a high of 36gal/hr.

If you do this I would love to come down and visit with you while you start to sea trial!

Habana, my point on the learning curve is somewhat like installing Ilmors vs Merc...there is somewhat of a learning curve or resisitance in change to get to the final product. The masses still want gas, and the builders other than a few prefer it that way, even though the costs of said motor/tranny/drive are not any more, actually less in some cases...just the mind set of how much more labor will be due to not doing it enough times...ends up being slightly more. Set up is crutial, gear ratio, multi speed trannies is questioned of possibly being more problomatic vs std setup. I wish more customers would go the diesel route, I still love the idea, just couldnt get a third motor in the 43 to get the speeds I wanted. She went 74mph with the twin 480hp Yanmars and ASD-8's. There is nothing in between hp range power to weight ratio that would work to obtain low to mid 80's..., or I either do what my Hero Bob did, just order a lighter 50. If Yanmar or Cummins would come up with the same hp/tq as FPT did then hey...maybe 80mph+ would be a great set up, and work for poker runs where my sticks wouldnt be to wall...until then, Merc 700's were the snizel in that boat..Have a great holiday. Jeff

i sold the fountain , i cant get it of my avatar .
but i am looking into getting another boat in the near future.
some where between the 40 and 45 ft range 8 to 8.5 beam .
when this does happen you can come down anytime to check out the boat and help dial in if you want :) . and im sure at that time i will have a lot of question's on gear ratio and other stuff .

thank's
mike

if your boat did 74 mph with out a multi tran's im sure if it had one 80 mph would be no problem .
i guess the question is can the multi tran's be as reliable as the deisal's

thank's
mike

Mike, maybe I misunderstood on my set up... The multi only makes it easier to get up on plane as it goes through the gears, but still yeilds the same top speed if the ratios were the same.. thanks Jeff

May I make a suggestion? Eliminator has the 43 Larry Smith Scarab molds and they got 80 from their staggered Cummins 480 setup last year. They may still have the boat. Just a thought...

I was told they got high 73's...by two sources... NorTech got 82 on their 39.

Pantera 41 with diesels would be a way cool boat.

Mike, at some point you just simply don't have enough Hp!

I read something on OSO about the old Apache 45 and how Tres explained to the owner that "hey Hp is Hp and if you have two engines equal in Hp to the 3 engines of lesser Hp then it all the same (yes the extra weight slows a little)".

Now, I'm going to vent - why when I say Hp is Hp and propeller doesn't know diesel from gas it just knows the RPM's it's turning do people on here still go "but it's a diesel".

Hp is Hp, when you run out, you run out - there is always tweaking for an extra couple of mph but look at any of the successful diesel raceboats that ran UIM 1 or 2 and the net Hp was greater than that of the gas boats they beat - need I say more about Hp being Hp? Less Hp just don't get it done son!

What the diesel has that the little gas engines don't have is the ability to make that Hp hour after hour. I watch all these boring 3 second power pull videos on here of gas engine dyno pulls - why can't you bring it to 1,200 hp and leave it there for 2 hours and not let off? :eek:

Take the old 900Hp SeaTek race engines, I watched them run on the dyno at 900hp, go take a crap, eat lunch next door at Ferrari's house and go back and the damm thing is still at 900hp the whole time.

That is why the diesels were so dominate in UIM 1 especially when races were 150 miles or longer, not torque but sustainable Hp. You put a proper diesel boat in what Charlie wants to bring back - open ocean racing and it will dominate!!! Oh, yea, then a few gas engine boat owners & builders will strong arm Charlie and boycott his races, not give him support or sponsor dollars and bingo diesels will banished again!!! *** I do not believe Charlie would cave in it's just for the purpose of example, Charlie has ethics!***

Ok, I will go crawl under my rock again for now - thank you!

Jeff - your the best, I really need crawl out and start meeting you guys sometime!

Go take a crap THEN eat lunch :D that's why we love you Joe! :lolhit: Good info delivered with humor I read all your posts, lmao and learn something new every time. :)

Thanks, I try not to sound as bitter as I really am about things!

Dead WRONG!

It will not change top end by 1 mph, and due to the extra length (twice that of a single speed), and the extra weight (nearly twice of a single speed) they might even cost you mph. Notice I did not mention the parasitic loss of the multiple speeds in comparison.

Believe me, you can double everything from the size to the price when going from a a single to a two speed, but not the speed.

If that's the case why bother with multispeeds? Why would the Weismanns waste all that time and money developing them if they don't do anything, indeed even reduce speed??

Hey guys I have never owned a diesel boat but have always been intrigued by all it does have to offer, that a lot of you you have mentioned. Making consistant HP over long periods of time. I'm wondering what package/combo you might recommend for a 24' Pantera? Most of the diesel's have been on bigger boats and I always wonder what would work on a smaller boat like my old 24'. Any help is appreciated. Thanks for all the info. you guys provide on the board.