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Old 01-18-2011, 05:14 PM
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my comment about JT and curtis, was referring to those guys avoiding public forums. look at marc, he found a way thru his blogging to pontificate and not have to answer the general public like before.

my argument is that at least C1 has one class and consistently has been more stable than anything here.

as for my comparison regarding Nascar, again they race one class at a time so as not to confuse the fan just like C1 or X-cat. while yes C1 is probably a hobby for some at least they have are far advanced not just in the boat technology but in the entire team setup. also i never said that C1 is the end-all answer, just that they are several steps ahead of racing here.

as for geico and the tv, it was a one time deal. as far as i understand and have read, geico isn't sponsoring the tv for next year. yes opa has a some sort of tv deal but NO confirmed sponsor to pay for it, sound familiar??? also please don't combine my comment about ego's and charitable efforts. i stated that when being paid by a corporate sponsor that those types of duties are normal. also that haggin had a non-profit side of amf that performed charitable things.

now lets move on, haggin's gone and handed the rains to marc and scotty, i have not heard about any changes that would unite the classes or any attempt to consolidate their racing efforts in an attempt to change what both you and marc are pointing the finger at C1.

basically it find it hypocritical to complain about racing abroad and how those teams are spending x-amount of dollars in an effort to be winners then you look at what teams like gieco are doing, which is the same thing only they have taken it to the level, where they race NO ONE. they raced all year against no one. let me repeat that - THEY RACED NO ALL YEAR LONG. AT EVERY RACE THIS THEY HAD NO ONE ELSE IN THEIR CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the closest thing to a race came in st clair with catcando?

please point out one time that a C1 race has had only one boat in a race.

please point out a year where C1 has had only one boat and stilled crowned a champion.

can you really say things are just as bad. atleast give us some factual background to prove your point.
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:14 PM
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As promised, I spoke with John Tomlinson today. We had plenty of ground to cover but we spent a lot of time on his Class 1 efforts with the Abu Dhabi team, which hired Tomlinson to throttle a Class 1 boat it leased from the Victory team for three races last season.

Currently in the process of putting together several different proposals for team for the 2011 season, Tomlinson sounded as excited about the prospect of running a full season in Class 1 as I've heard him sound about anything in offshore racing for several years.

His reasons were two-fold. First, he said he likes the rule changes for 2011, which essentially base horsepower and maximum engine speed (rpm) on the size and weight of the boat. The new rules gives the Class 1 competitors several options. Second, he said that Class 1 racing is all business.

"You don't see all the choppers and Lamborghinis (in the pits) like you do here," said Tomlinson. "From the guy who finishes first to the guy in ninth place, everyone races hard. And they're really good."

Tomlinson said that he was untouched by the politics and controversies of the 2011 season. "I was only there for three races," he said.

But while he is hoping to run the full 2011 Class 1 season, it is far from certain that he will as the season opens in April and he is still putting together proposals—one with the possibility of building a new 48 MTI with Sterling engines—for competing in the class.

"If we go with a new boat, I don't think it would be ready for like eight months," he said. "It's all a matter of what the team wants to do and how much money it wants to spend. I told them that with what we have now, we're essentially competing for second place. As long as they know that and are OK with it, I'm OK with it."
As I stated earlier, JT must not think anything is wrong with Class 1 racing. You are right, JT is a hired gun and one of the best in the world, he has proven this over and over. I may be wrong, but people like JT do what they do, to yes make a living, but also and probably most importantly, FOR THE LOVE OF THE SPORT. These types of people don't get involved in the politics of offshore racing. Just my opinion.
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:39 PM
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As I stated earlier, JT must not think anything is wrong with Class 1 racing. You are right, JT is a hired gun and one of the best in the world, he has proven this over and over. I may be wrong, but people like JT do what they do, to yes make a living, but also and probably most importantly, FOR THE LOVE OF THE SPORT. These types of people don't get involved in the politics of offshore racing. Just my opinion.
You were right about JT. As I said, I have not heard him this excited about offshore racing in ... forever. I've spent a lot of time with him (long car rides through the desert for boat tests) and without betraying any confidences I can say that he hasn't exactly been thrilled with offshore racing in quite a while.

One quote I left out from JT in reference to his recent stint in Class 1 said it all: "It's like Super Cat was in 2001-2003."

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Old 01-18-2011, 05:49 PM
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That is great to hear that JT is that pumped up about racing again. He has always been a true gentleman of the sport. Thanks for sharing this info and thanks for all your hard work in bringing us up to date with what is going on in the offshore racing world.
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Old 01-18-2011, 06:02 PM
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Why would Geico give up the turbine cat?! 90% of the general crowd was there to see that boat run. I give them my full support for running that boat. Of course its just too bad they didn't have Aquamania and JBS to race against. but does that mean we should take away a 200mph Turbine cat from the show? HELL NO! Why should they have to step down???

Now if they would just toss some piston power in the MTI and ALSO race in super cat now that would be something to see!

I don't follow C1 all that much, seems a bit stale but a series that requires a brand new cat and sterlings each year to be competive?! Ya I see that taking off here real soon.

Agree with JT that they are all super competitive over there which is great. Especially when they have the bankroll to do it at that level.

Personally I like the classes we have here. Makes for a more entertaining day rather than one single 45 min race like C1. Even with 3 starts a day, there can be some lulls in the action.

How does a C1 race work? is there really only 30mins of real action then its over or do they run other classes (with less publicity) as fillers.
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Old 01-18-2011, 06:27 PM
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[QUOTE]How does a C1 race work? is there really only 30mins of real action then its over or do they run other classes (with less publicity) as fillers/QUOTE]
I went to Class 1 race in Qatar in 08, joined up with X-cat , X-Cat Had 25 Boats all 2.5 Outboards, Gary Ballough Of Mapei Was there running his Doug Wright. The previous Day was the Edox Time trial which Gave the pole position to the fastest lap, actually something that made sense,
Race day the course was open in the morning to allow teams to make setup adjustments from the previous days, and see the conditions.

After the race the awards , with podium, (Just like F-1) It is a first class experience.

I went last year to a X-Cat event in Dubai, it was postponed due to a death in the royal family. but none the less, Dubai has a lot to see if there isnt a boat race.

The politics that goes on happens in all sports where money is involved , more so If your the one shelling it out. As for GEICO , I believe they are fufilling the sponsors contract, and in the end thats what they are obligated to do. If there were 10 turbine boats racing would it be cool??? sure, but it would not be susaintable over many years.

I believe most people would have loved to see Geico get a Super Cat, or hell for the money spent a fleet of Cat lights, IMO Cat Light and SVL where the shows to watch in KW. The Xtreme Cats are cool But seems that something always breaks. The Super Cat 750/850/Extreme850 is TOO much. Wiith JT racing in Class 1 more attention will be paid to Class 1 this year, than Super Cat here in the States.

As rumor has it WHM is crossing the pond to race there as well.
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Old 01-18-2011, 06:29 PM
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my comment about JT and curtis, was referring to those guys avoiding public forums. look at marc, he found a way thru his blogging to pontificate and not have to answer the general public like before.

my argument is that at least C1 has one class and consistently has been more stable than anything here.

as for my comparison regarding Nascar, again they race one class at a time so as not to confuse the fan just like C1 or X-cat. while yes C1 is probably a hobby for some at least they have are far advanced not just in the boat technology but in the entire team setup. also i never said that C1 is the end-all answer, just that they are several steps ahead of racing here.

as for geico and the tv, it was a one time deal. as far as i understand and have read, geico isn't sponsoring the tv for next year. yes opa has a some sort of tv deal but NO confirmed sponsor to pay for it, sound familiar??? also please don't combine my comment about ego's and charitable efforts. i stated that when being paid by a corporate sponsor that those types of duties are normal. also that haggin had a non-profit side of amf that performed charitable things.

now lets move on, haggin's gone and handed the rains to marc and scotty, i have not heard about any changes that would unite the classes or any attempt to consolidate their racing efforts in an attempt to change what both you and marc are pointing the finger at C1.

basically it find it hypocritical to complain about racing abroad and how those teams are spending x-amount of dollars in an effort to be winners then you look at what teams like gieco are doing, which is the same thing only they have taken it to the level, where they race NO ONE. they raced all year against no one. let me repeat that - THEY RACED NO ALL YEAR LONG. AT EVERY RACE THIS THEY HAD NO ONE ELSE IN THEIR CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the closest thing to a race came in st clair with catcando?

please point out one time that a C1 race has had only one boat in a race.

please point out a year where C1 has had only one boat and stilled crowned a champion.

can you really say things are just as bad. atleast give us some factual background to prove your point.
SkaterDave ... hombre ... compardre

I am not "pointing the finger at Class 1." I am saying it has had all of the same problems we have here. So I struggle, as Marc Granet struggles, when people hold it up (and I understand this is not what you're saying) as a successful model to emulate.

On the plus side, and I'll take these points directly from you:

•please point out one time that a C1 race has had only one boat in a race. (NEVER)
•please point out a year where C1 has had only one boat and stilled crowned a champion. (NEVER)

Offshore racing on the national level here is a train wreck. Nowhere in what I wrote did I say it was in good shape. And as you pointed out, there are things UIM Class 1 does well and others, such as cost control and parity, it does not. (But they're working on it.)

Miss Geico raced no one in 2011. (If you want to see that in print, see my OPA Worlds feature in the last issue of Powerboat.) That's a fact. There were early season promises from other turbine teams, none of which materialized for various reasons. Not sure you can blame Geico for that.

Your point on TV sounds a little ... ungrateful. So if Geico didn't sign up in perpetuity as a TV show sponsor, what they did sponsor doesn't matter or didn't happen? Yeah, it was a one-time deal. And in the past few years before that, domestic offshore racing had exactly how much TV coverage? Nada.

My point was that you simply can't look at Class 1 overall and say, "This is a successful offshore racing model." It has elements of success for sure. It also has elements of failure ... and the failures, minus the multi-class cluster craziness the domestic sport has embraced, are just like ours.

Are things there now "just as bad?" You know, the harder I look at it, the more I have to say ... probably not. We have a much bigger mess to clean up. Unfortunately, and this is my point, there is no truly successful model to emulate.
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Old 01-18-2011, 06:52 PM
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Are things there now "just as bad?" You know, the harder I look at it, the more I have to say ... probably not. We have a much bigger mess to clean up. Unfortunately, and this is my point, there is no truly successful model to emulate.
100% agree, but also would like to add that domestically i don't see anyone (major players) trying to do anything positive. like pete said even if there was one other turbine too race that class is unsustainable as far as costs go. so don't you find it a little ironic that someone that runs the only current turbine boat in a class by themselves would make a statement that things are no better here vs there. especially when their habits epitomize the BIGGEST problem in offshore.

as for 90% coming to see geico. i would beg to differ. i've heard that argument before and my answer has always been: ok then put them out there by themselves and see how cool it is to watch them parade around alone. in todays racing, of course geico is a fan favorite but 90% of them actually think that gieco is racing the other boats. 9 times out of 10 when i've been asked about geico and the racing once people realize geico is racing by themselves they are turned off and think its lame.
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:24 AM
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T2x - I remember just a couple short years ago the #1 complaint from FANS was how little they actually saw during a race. 3 or 4 quick passes by and that was it. Your marathons are great for racers but horrible for making it marketable.
The are no paying fans for these events....and the number of actual non paying fans is highly debatable. Most of the races I have attended in recent years feature thousands of people on a weekend beach day who would probably be there anyhow. The towns benefit primarily from the teams, the media, and their ancillary hangers on, or people who live a short driving distance away and consider the event like an annual carnival. The Key West race is probably the one exception to this although that venue benefits from the presence of a large Poker Run crowd. If there are so many "fans" clammoring to see this event, how do the Poker Runners find good accomodations?

Offshore racing is a sport that must have TV for promotion. Without that how can a random potential "fan" even find out that the sport exists? Once you have TV coverage (helicopter based) It doesn't matter whether the boats are in a harbor or 50 miles offshore. You can beam some video back to large screens in the "fan" area for the handful (by comparison to broadcast) of people who watch at the event...and show the entire race on a tape delay basis to a MUCH larger audience with sponsors and advertizers receiving some bang for their buck. The Europeans understand that and also get that you can't pollute the sport with numerous, meaningless classes.

My support of marathons comes from the belief that long courses change the game from a bunch of repetitive laps featuring grandstanding and bling and return the sport to a true racing model where equipment, personal skills and stamina are tested. This conversion may drive some current racer/owners from the sport, but it will open the gates to a whole different and larger breed of racer/sportsmen while encouraging talent and competition. These are the type of colorful people who pioneered the sport, and now stay away in droves. Much like the Baja race and Paris Dakar Rally draw world wide attention without "spectator friendliness", so too can Offshore Racing return to its roots and profit from the change IMHO.

Look, what's going on now clearly isn't working, and we all know the definition of insanity.

T2x

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Old 01-19-2011, 08:56 AM
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100% agree, but also would like to add that domestically i don't see anyone (major players) trying to do anything positive. like pete said even if there was one other turbine too race that class is unsustainable as far as costs go. so don't you find it a little ironic that someone that runs the only current turbine boat in a class by themselves would make a statement that things are no better here vs there. especially when their habits epitomize the BIGGEST problem in offshore.

as for 90% coming to see geico. i would beg to differ. i've heard that argument before and my answer has always been: ok then put them out there by themselves and see how cool it is to watch them parade around alone. in todays racing, of course geico is a fan favorite but 90% of them actually think that gieco is racing the other boats. 9 times out of 10 when i've been asked about geico and the racing once people realize geico is racing by themselves they are turned off and think its lame.
For the record I really like and respect Marc and Scotty and believe that a lot of their budget in the past was based simply on a very rich guy playing with very expensive toys. While this did bring short term publicity to fast boats in general , it simultaneously hurt the playing field. Now that the team has a new perspective based on creating and maintaining some fiscal sustainability, I think you will see a more thoughtful and sensible approach to building not only the team but the entire arena. Marc's blog musings are an example of at least some consideration of a bigger picture and an understanding that things need improvement in Offshore Racing in general, a point that still escapes many of today's racing organizers and participants who are content in their increasingly irrelevant world.

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