Shogren on Used Boats: "Be prepared for reality."
03-27-2011 | 02:08 PM
#131
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From: New York
Except the 70 year old retiree would have never gotten the boat sold....Broker is one of the largest on the east coast and their exposure got the boat sold. This was not a ebay/craigslist boat or a hang a sign on it in your front yard type deal.
For a 10K boat, you certainly don't need a broker. For the big dollar stuff you probably won't be successful without one (they can get financing/take trades etc).
For a 10K boat, you certainly don't need a broker. For the big dollar stuff you probably won't be successful without one (they can get financing/take trades etc).
Last edited by Fountain4402; 03-27-2011 at 07:31 PM.
03-27-2011 | 02:10 PM
#132
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From: New York
My thoughts exactly. But just how much growth in building, vacation and second home buying, and expensive boats purchases do you think would have been made last decade without HELOC madness? HATEM (House as ATM). A fraction. Some people thought the industry went wild because of tax cuts. Not really.
Heck I was at the boat show once, and was wondering why it was so easy for me to afford a brand new $150k, or even $200k Formula. After 15 minutes, I figured it was not such a sharp idea
Without the reckless housing industry puff up from '01 onward, the boating industry wouldn't have suffered from this boom bust cycle. So in that regard, the dealers share in the blame along with everyone else. And here we are.
Heck I was at the boat show once, and was wondering why it was so easy for me to afford a brand new $150k, or even $200k Formula. After 15 minutes, I figured it was not such a sharp idea
Without the reckless housing industry puff up from '01 onward, the boating industry wouldn't have suffered from this boom bust cycle. So in that regard, the dealers share in the blame along with everyone else. And here we are.
Last edited by Fountain4402; 03-27-2011 at 07:30 PM.
03-27-2011 | 09:59 PM
#134
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Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Lake Dallas, TX
Well after reading this thread, I was scared the death. I placed my boat on craigslist on Thursday and sold it on Saturday. Oh and I sold it for $1k less than I paid for it 3yrs ago. Now granted I busted my balls keeping it spotless and bringing out the best it could look, which I totally believe helped me get sell it so easily.
Last edited by bert4332; 03-27-2011 at 10:07 PM.
03-27-2011 | 10:06 PM
#135
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,824
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From: IL
No problem on your position but let me tell you why I don't agree with your position. When most people buy a boat, they do not care who owns it or what price is, they simply want to make an offer for alot less than the asking price no matter what the price is. We get email offers for 50% less than we are asking for boats that are already below low wholesale daily.
Consignment is a choice and has benefits with a good dealer. If you use your earlier example of price being lower, the one thing you cannot get thru private party is a tax credit. What I mean by that is some people sell there boat through a good dealer so they can get tax credit towards future purchase. Or, if you are a buyer coming to our dealership and you have a trade and live in Illinois, you will only pay tax on difference vs full purchase price. In Illinois alone that would be a 7% value.
The repos are what hurt the used market, not dealers. When the mfg hit tough times and left the banks no position other than reduce cost of inventory to sell it the market went backwards. IE: If a 2009 left over brand x boat had a cost of 300K and the bank let it go for 175K what do you think that did to the same used brand X boat that was a 2004 model? Correct, made it worth that much less. If it was not for the good dealers that worked with the banks it would have been alot worse.
The great thing at the end of the day is you do not have to consign "your" boat with a dealer and you don't have to accept an offer.
What about the guy that walks in the store like a customer did last week because we are retail and open to the public and he saw a boat he liked that was not for sale in our store? You got it, we called the owner and made an offer that was "strong" and he took it when the boat was not even for sale.
Although I respect your position I think you need to put a little more value on yourself and the fact that you can always choose to or not to consign and accept an offer.
On the consignment side we will pick up consumers boats, detail, get customer financed, take a trade and not charge for the transport or detail until boat sells. In this manner we are investing in customer and transaction to help sell. I would like to think that our company investing money into the deal and customer has value.
Keep the faith, I am sure you will make an offer below asking price on your next boat no matter where or who you buy it from?
This has been a great thread that has not gotten off track much which I really appreciate the interaction on.
Regards,
Scott Shogren
www.teamshogren.com
Consignment is a choice and has benefits with a good dealer. If you use your earlier example of price being lower, the one thing you cannot get thru private party is a tax credit. What I mean by that is some people sell there boat through a good dealer so they can get tax credit towards future purchase. Or, if you are a buyer coming to our dealership and you have a trade and live in Illinois, you will only pay tax on difference vs full purchase price. In Illinois alone that would be a 7% value.
The repos are what hurt the used market, not dealers. When the mfg hit tough times and left the banks no position other than reduce cost of inventory to sell it the market went backwards. IE: If a 2009 left over brand x boat had a cost of 300K and the bank let it go for 175K what do you think that did to the same used brand X boat that was a 2004 model? Correct, made it worth that much less. If it was not for the good dealers that worked with the banks it would have been alot worse.
The great thing at the end of the day is you do not have to consign "your" boat with a dealer and you don't have to accept an offer.
What about the guy that walks in the store like a customer did last week because we are retail and open to the public and he saw a boat he liked that was not for sale in our store? You got it, we called the owner and made an offer that was "strong" and he took it when the boat was not even for sale.
Although I respect your position I think you need to put a little more value on yourself and the fact that you can always choose to or not to consign and accept an offer.
On the consignment side we will pick up consumers boats, detail, get customer financed, take a trade and not charge for the transport or detail until boat sells. In this manner we are investing in customer and transaction to help sell. I would like to think that our company investing money into the deal and customer has value.
Keep the faith, I am sure you will make an offer below asking price on your next boat no matter where or who you buy it from?
This has been a great thread that has not gotten off track much which I really appreciate the interaction on.
Regards,
Scott Shogren
www.teamshogren.com
WTF are you talking about????
All I stated was my opinion about boat consignments
I never said anything about been in the market to sell or buy a boat or any of the other BS your talking about.
oh and about the great service you said you provide and detail costumers boats so they sell faster,the key words are you dont charge until it sells,but when you do sell their boat than they get hit with a detailing charge.
anyway thats not what this thread is about so Im out!
Regards
Last edited by boatnt; 03-28-2011 at 06:56 AM.
03-28-2011 | 07:24 AM
#136
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,904
Likes: 1,143
Scott
WTF are you talking about????
All I stated was my opinion about boat consignments
I never said anything about been in the market to sell or buy a boat or any of the other BS your talking about.
oh and about the great service you said you provide and detail costumers boats so they sell faster,the key words are you dont charge until it sells,but when you do sell their boat than they get hit with a detailing charge.
anyway thats not what this thread is about so Im out!
Regards
WTF are you talking about????
All I stated was my opinion about boat consignments
I never said anything about been in the market to sell or buy a boat or any of the other BS your talking about.
oh and about the great service you said you provide and detail costumers boats so they sell faster,the key words are you dont charge until it sells,but when you do sell their boat than they get hit with a detailing charge.
anyway thats not what this thread is about so Im out!
Regards
So Shogren should pick up the boats, detail/store them and advertise them for free for the owner? Shogren offers a service, not free service. I suspect the boat would be worth more if it was clean, stored in a nice facility to peruse at your leisure 6/7 days a week. No one will pay a premium for a dirty boat, covered by a tarp in a cold barn in upstate Illinois. I strongly suspect that the "detailing fee" is made up easily by the higher resale value.
03-28-2011 | 07:39 AM
#137
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 861
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From: New York
No problem on your position but let me tell you why I don't agree with your position. When most people buy a boat, they do not care who owns it or what price is, they simply want to make an offer for alot less than the asking price no matter what the price is. We get email offers for 50% less than we are asking for boats that are already below low wholesale daily.
Consignment is a choice and has benefits with a good dealer. If you use your earlier example of price being lower, the one thing you cannot get thru private party is a tax credit. What I mean by that is some people sell there boat through a good dealer so they can get tax credit towards future purchase. Or, if you are a buyer coming to our dealership and you have a trade and live in Illinois, you will only pay tax on difference vs full purchase price. In Illinois alone that would be a 7% value.
The repos are what hurt the used market, not dealers. When the mfg hit tough times and left the banks no position other than reduce cost of inventory to sell it the market went backwards. IE: If a 2009 left over brand x boat had a cost of 300K and the bank let it go for 175K what do you think that did to the same used brand X boat that was a 2004 model? Correct, made it worth that much less. If it was not for the good dealers that worked with the banks it would have been alot worse.
The great thing at the end of the day is you do not have to consign "your" boat with a dealer and you don't have to accept an offer.
What about the guy that walks in the store like a customer did last week because we are retail and open to the public and he saw a boat he liked that was not for sale in our store? You got it, we called the owner and made an offer that was "strong" and he took it when the boat was not even for sale.
Although I respect your position I think you need to put a little more value on yourself and the fact that you can always choose to or not to consign and accept an offer.
On the consignment side we will pick up consumers boats, detail, get customer financed, take a trade and not charge for the transport or detail until boat sells. In this manner we are investing in customer and transaction to help sell. I would like to think that our company investing money into the deal and customer has value.
Keep the faith, I am sure you will make an offer below asking price on your next boat no matter where or who you buy it from?
This has been a great thread that has not gotten off track much which I really appreciate the interaction on.
Regards,
Scott Shogren
www.teamshogren.com
Consignment is a choice and has benefits with a good dealer. If you use your earlier example of price being lower, the one thing you cannot get thru private party is a tax credit. What I mean by that is some people sell there boat through a good dealer so they can get tax credit towards future purchase. Or, if you are a buyer coming to our dealership and you have a trade and live in Illinois, you will only pay tax on difference vs full purchase price. In Illinois alone that would be a 7% value.
The repos are what hurt the used market, not dealers. When the mfg hit tough times and left the banks no position other than reduce cost of inventory to sell it the market went backwards. IE: If a 2009 left over brand x boat had a cost of 300K and the bank let it go for 175K what do you think that did to the same used brand X boat that was a 2004 model? Correct, made it worth that much less. If it was not for the good dealers that worked with the banks it would have been alot worse.
The great thing at the end of the day is you do not have to consign "your" boat with a dealer and you don't have to accept an offer.
What about the guy that walks in the store like a customer did last week because we are retail and open to the public and he saw a boat he liked that was not for sale in our store? You got it, we called the owner and made an offer that was "strong" and he took it when the boat was not even for sale.
Although I respect your position I think you need to put a little more value on yourself and the fact that you can always choose to or not to consign and accept an offer.
On the consignment side we will pick up consumers boats, detail, get customer financed, take a trade and not charge for the transport or detail until boat sells. In this manner we are investing in customer and transaction to help sell. I would like to think that our company investing money into the deal and customer has value.
Keep the faith, I am sure you will make an offer below asking price on your next boat no matter where or who you buy it from?
This has been a great thread that has not gotten off track much which I really appreciate the interaction on.
Regards,
Scott Shogren
www.teamshogren.com
I dont know about a tax credit I get what you are saying with the trade in, i mean that happens on cars too. But I dont know how many people who go out and buy things private party actually pay full tax. Not that I have seen it or done it but most people get a bill of sale for less than they paid for the boat, so theres my tax credit when i need it.
03-28-2011 | 07:40 AM
#138
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,824
Likes: 377
From: IL
So Shogren should pick up the boats, detail/store them and advertise them for free for the owner? Shogren offers a service, not free service. I suspect the boat would be worth more if it was clean, stored in a nice facility to peruse at your leisure 6/7 days a week. No one will pay a premium for a dirty boat, covered by a tarp in a cold barn in upstate Illinois. I strongly suspect that the "detailing fee" is made up easily by the higher resale value.
I knew sooner or later you or someone come around and explain it to me.
03-28-2011 | 08:18 AM
#139
Banned
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 861
Likes: 0
From: New York
If I sell a boat for 50k and pay a broker 5 grand in commission and they charge me to wash and wax it, ummm furious comes to mind. And if I bought a boat for 50 grand and they charged me to do that I would turn around and ask for a refund.
03-28-2011 | 08:44 AM
#140
OSO OG
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 2
From: Blue Martini Hall of Fame
You don't get paid for the work you do? How do afford your boat if you give away your talents and services for free?
