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Old 08-05-2011, 08:46 PM
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Gotta love Republicans protecting special interests and big business at the expense of the country and environment.

I am actually shocked that that bill made it through the Republican controlled House.

I think corn ethanol is on life support though, it is to the point that EVERYONE knows its a joke and a waste. Once that happens, it takes Congress about ten years to act on something that everyone else knows is wrong
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:51 AM
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As far as I'm concerned all of the career politicians need to be out of office. Both parties are a joke.
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Old 08-06-2011, 11:15 AM
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Democratic bill to end oil subsidies is defeated in the Senate
OIL COMPANIES


Maine Republican Sen. Susan Collins said the bill, even if it had passed, would not bring down prices at the gas pump.On a mostly party-line vote, the Senate on Tuesday defeated a Democratic measure to strip major oil companies of about $20 billion in tax subsidies over the next 10 years and use the savings to pay down the deficit.

Three Democrats and two Republicans crossed sides in the 52-48 vote, preventing the bill from reaching a required 60-vote threshold for passage.
Got to wonder how much Susan was paid for her opinion.
Why would getting rid of "subsidies" to oil companies lower the cost of fuel? It wouldn't. These subsidies they are talking about are tax write offs for R&D the oil company spends. So when the oil company spends 50 billion developing new tools to get the oil that is harder to get(since the govt wont allow us to get the easy oil near the shore or on vacant land) they can write off this cost as an expense. Which it is a legitimate expense of doing business. If the oil companies have to pay taxes on money that is not profit, what do you think the cost of fuel will be? This is not a subsidy.

They need to look a little closer to the white house. Considering Jeffery Imelt the CEO of GE, is a close economic advisor of BO. GE PAID NO CORPORATE INCOME TAXES AT ALL. ZERO, and had 35 billion in profit.



Don't take the words of the politicians or the media at face value. They all think we are stupid and use "code" words to fool the easily led automatons that we have in this country. And the sad part is that it is working. Do you own research. Look beyond the bumper sticker talking points that are spewed out by a compliant media.

My personal new favorite is "spending in the tax code." Really.......Really.......Really??????

Time to decide what side you are on, the "producer" or the "parasite".

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Old 08-06-2011, 12:19 PM
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I doubt there is anything we can do to lower gas prices. After their most recent 42 billion in profits do you really think they are going to give anything up. This is about the vote mentioned above.
The Center for American Progress Action Fund totaled it all up and found that the 48 senators who voted with the industry received over $21 million in career oil contributions, while the other 52 senators received only $5.4 million. So each senator who opposed the subsidy repeal received on average five times as much oil money as those who voted for repeal.
Campaign donations from the industry are only part of the reason the bill was defeated. There's also an army of lobbyists: The oil and gas companies have spent more than $1 billion on lobbying-related activities since 1998.

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Old 08-06-2011, 01:45 PM
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The post is about ethanol subsidies, not all oil subsidies. To some degree oil subsidies probably do lower the cost of fuel at the pump.

Ethanol subsidies certainly do not. Thanks to Bush's rediculous ethanol mandate and the EPA, all ethanol does is ruin fuel systems, pollute the waterways, drive up the cost of corn, and lower our fuel mileage while being a waste of tax dollars at the same time.

A few senators and ethanol producers are the ONLY ones benefitting from these rediculous subsidies
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Old 08-06-2011, 02:04 PM
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I would concur with all comments, above.

Then, I would suggest becoming a nuisance to any Congressman you might add to your mailing list.

Safety first (resultant pollution) and public sentiment become matters of record. Records become points of interest for opponent voters, during a future election.

Marine and Small Engine consumption is a trivial percentage.
We know, the issue of Ethanol is a hardship to those applications. Therefore, whether it be Oil Companies or Lobbyists, the legitimate squeaking wheel will only get grease if it squeaks.

Collectively, the Marine Industry has earlier protested Ethanol. However, timing may now be more effective.

Price per gallon is another subject. The priority, for me, is potential damage to the engine and related components.

Remember, Residual Value of your boat will not suffer if Ethanol is removed from Marine Fuel. IMHO, contacting the Congressmen and explaining your position may help.
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:52 PM
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My favorite fact is that it takes almost a gallon of oil to produce 1 gallon of ethonal.

So why bother ?

Its a bad idea, and should be stopped.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:24 PM
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My favorite fact is that it takes almost a gallon of oil to produce 1 gallon of ethonal.

So why bother ?

Its a bad idea, and should be stopped.

Now that is simply not true. So what if 40% of the corn we grow goes to make ethanol. The byproduct of the ethanol brewing process is DDG ,dry distillers grain. It is a much better source of protein for cattle the straight corn. Alot of the stuff that a cow passes is taken out.

I can't blame anyone for having their facts wrong there is so much misinformation, false info or old info, most people have no idea what to believe.
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Old 08-06-2011, 10:39 PM
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Just something I ran accross, don't know if it still holds true, Do I or Don't I upgrade: A few things to think about environment, driving habits, engine, fuel system, and selecting carb size.

Environment: Oil will not last and we can be ready now and slow the oil consumption and clean the air. The fun part is we can do this with lots of power and fun. E85 is made from corn but there is many plants like switch grass that will provide a better source for more E85 fuel.

Driving Habits: If you drive your show/race car just once or twice a year you may want to stay with gas because E85 works like a sponge grabbing all the water it can from the air. So driving some on a weekly basis would be good. If you use E85 keep it moving don't store it! If you need to park your car for long terms you should fill your tank with gas and stabill. This will provide you with some protection from rust and fuel system problems.

Engine: E85 likes high compression to make big power but it works fine on low compression engines to. You do need harden valve seats and to change the oil more often. E85 will bring more water into your oil, but with proper maintenance this should not cause problems.

Fuel System: Your current system might be just fine. Your fuel tank should be clean without rust and the vibration rubber sections in your fuel line should be replaced with new fuel hose. Your pump needs to pump about 25% more fuel and work with E85. We are using Holley mechanical and electric pumps without problems. Good fuel filter with stainless steel mesh element is always a must and braided fuel line is good for looks and safety.

Selecting E85 Carb Size: We recommend the following as a basic rule--which can be broken--for street/strip-driven cars with normal engine RPM from idle to 7,000 rpm. For 327 to 400 ci engines, choose the 750 E85 carb. For 400 to 468, 850 E85 carb; 468 to 500, 950 E85 carb; and for greater than 500, choose the new 1050 E85 carb. Of course if your engine will rev to a much higher rpm, you will need to select a larger carb. Of course duel carb's is an option.


Myth busters on Ethanol (E85)

Myth busters

Ethanol-blended gasoline powers cars and trucks hundreds of thousands of miles across the United States each and every year. In fact, it has powered vehicles through more than 2 trillion miles in the past 25 years. It is proven to decrease air pollution, enhance engine performance and boost local, regional and national economies. Every major automaker approves and warrantees its use. Even so, there's a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding out there. The truth is ethanol is economical, efficient and earth-friendly, and in North Dakota, it's good for all of us. Get the facts, and Go E85!

Myth: Ethanol makes your engine run hotter.


Fact: There's a reason many high-powered racing engines run on pure alcohol. It combusts at a lower temperature, keeping the engine cooler. Ethanol, a form of alcohol, in your fuel does the same for your engine. They run cooler.


Myth: Ethanol is bad for fuel injectors.


Fact: Olefins in gasoline cause deposits that can foul injectors. By comparison, ethanol burns 100 percent and leaves no residue, so it cannot contribute to the formation of deposits. Fact is, ethanol actually keeps fuel injectors cleaner and improves performance. What's more, ethanol does not increase corrosion, and it will not harm seals or valves.


Myth: Ethanol plugs fuel lines.


Fact: Ethanol actually keeps your fuel system cleaner than regular unleaded gasoline. In dirty fuel systems, ethanol loosens contaminants and residues and they can get caught in your fuel filter. In older cars, especially those manufactured before 1975, replacing the filter will solve the problem. And if you continue to use ethanol-blended gasoline, your filter will remain cleaner for improved engine performance.


Myth: Ethanol isn't safe for older vehicles.


Fact: Many older cars were designed to run on leaded gasoline, with the lead providing necessary octane for performance. However, even dramatic changes in gasoline formulation over the past few years have not affected older engine performance. Ethanol, a natural, renewable additive, raises octane levels by three points and works well in older engines.


Myth: Ethanol harms small engines, like those on lawn mowers, snowmobiles, personal watercraft and recreational vehicles.


Fact: Small engine manufacturers have made certain that their engines perform with gasoline that contains oxygenates such as ethanol. Fact is, ethanol-blended fuel can be used safely in anything that runs on unleaded gasoline.


Myth: Ethanol actually increases air pollution.


Fact: There can be no increase in emission from ethanol-blended fuels; it's the law. In fact, ethanol reduces carbon monoxide emissions by as much as 25 percent and displaces components of gasoline that produce toxic emissions that cause cancer and other diseases.


Myth: Ethanol contributes to global warming.


Fact: The energy balance for ethanol is positive, 1.35 to 1, so the greenhouse gas benefits of ethanol are also positive. Fact is, using ethanol produces 32 percent fewer emissions of greenhouse gases than gasoline for the same distance traveled.


Myth: It takes more energy to produce ethanol than it contributes.


Fact: Fact is, corn plants efficiently collect and store energy, so for every 100 BTUs of energy used to produce ethanol, 135 BTUs of ethanol are produced. In addition, ethanol facilities are extremely energy efficient.


Myth: Ethanol production wastes corn that could be used for food.


Fact: In 2001, U.S. farmers produced 9.5 billion bushels of corn and only 600 million bushels are currently used in ethanol production. Fact is, there's no shortage of corn, and the ethanol market could expand significantly without negatively impacting its availability. Besides, ethanol production uses field corn, most of which is fed to livestock, not humans. Only the starch portion of the corn kernel is used to produce ethanol. The vitamins, minerals, proteins and fiber are converted to other products such as sweeteners, corn oil and high-value livestock feed, which helps livestock producers add to the overall food supply.


Myth: Ethanol does not benefit farmers.


Fact: Demand for grain from ethanol production increases net farm income more than $1.2 billion a year, and ethanol production adds $4.5 billion to U.S. farm income annually. Studies have shown that corn prices in markets near ethanol plants will increase between 5 cents and 8 cents per bushel. In North Dakota, ethanol production increases the market price for corn by 25 cents per bushel. In addition, ethanol production accounts for a portion of the overall corn supply and helps improve corn prices nationwide.


Myth: Ethanol only benefits farmers.


Fact: The increase in net farm income results in a boost in the agricultural sector that cuts farm program costs and taxpayer outlays. Beyond that, ethanol production has been responsible for more than 40,000 jobs, or more than $1.3 billion in household income. It also directly and indirectly adds more than $6 billion to the American economy each year by boosting surrounding economies.

Sources: American Coalition of Ethanol and the Renewable Fuels Association

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http://www.goefuel.com/facts/mythbusters.html
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:02 AM
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This is a quote from the biofuels coalition website:

"For every unit of energy delivered at the pump, corn ethanol requires 0.76 units of fossil energy"

So why waste the energy and use the energy to make gasoline.

Just a thought
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