Like Tree0Likes

Ethanol/Employment/Economy

Reply
Old 08-07-2011, 10:05 AM
  #21
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Angola NY
My Boats: HTM SR24
Posts: 396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPM View Post
Just something I ran accross, don't know if it still holds true, Do I or Don't I upgrade: A few things to think about environment, driving habits, engine, fuel system, and selecting carb size.

Environment: Oil will not last and we can be ready now and slow the oil consumption and clean the air. The fun part is we can do this with lots of power and fun. E85 is made from corn but there is many plants like switch grass that will provide a better source for more E85 fuel.

Driving Habits: If you drive your show/race car just once or twice a year you may want to stay with gas because E85 works like a sponge grabbing all the water it can from the air. So driving some on a weekly basis would be good. If you use E85 keep it moving don't store it! If you need to park your car for long terms you should fill your tank with gas and stabill. This will provide you with some protection from rust and fuel system problems.

Engine: E85 likes high compression to make big power but it works fine on low compression engines to. You do need harden valve seats and to change the oil more often. E85 will bring more water into your oil, but with proper maintenance this should not cause problems.

Fuel System: Your current system might be just fine. Your fuel tank should be clean without rust and the vibration rubber sections in your fuel line should be replaced with new fuel hose. Your pump needs to pump about 25% more fuel and work with E85. We are using Holley mechanical and electric pumps without problems. Good fuel filter with stainless steel mesh element is always a must and braided fuel line is good for looks and safety.

Selecting E85 Carb Size: We recommend the following as a basic rule--which can be broken--for street/strip-driven cars with normal engine RPM from idle to 7,000 rpm. For 327 to 400 ci engines, choose the 750 E85 carb. For 400 to 468, 850 E85 carb; 468 to 500, 950 E85 carb; and for greater than 500, choose the new 1050 E85 carb. Of course if your engine will rev to a much higher rpm, you will need to select a larger carb. Of course duel carb's is an option.


Myth busters on Ethanol (E85)

Myth busters

Ethanol-blended gasoline powers cars and trucks hundreds of thousands of miles across the United States each and every year. In fact, it has powered vehicles through more than 2 trillion miles in the past 25 years. It is proven to decrease air pollution, enhance engine performance and boost local, regional and national economies. Every major automaker approves and warrantees its use. Even so, there's a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding out there. The truth is ethanol is economical, efficient and earth-friendly, and in North Dakota, it's good for all of us. Get the facts, and Go E85!

Myth: Ethanol makes your engine run hotter.


Fact: There's a reason many high-powered racing engines run on pure alcohol. It combusts at a lower temperature, keeping the engine cooler. Ethanol, a form of alcohol, in your fuel does the same for your engine. They run cooler.


Myth: Ethanol is bad for fuel injectors.


Fact: Olefins in gasoline cause deposits that can foul injectors. By comparison, ethanol burns 100 percent and leaves no residue, so it cannot contribute to the formation of deposits. Fact is, ethanol actually keeps fuel injectors cleaner and improves performance. What's more, ethanol does not increase corrosion, and it will not harm seals or valves.


Myth: Ethanol plugs fuel lines.


Fact: Ethanol actually keeps your fuel system cleaner than regular unleaded gasoline. In dirty fuel systems, ethanol loosens contaminants and residues and they can get caught in your fuel filter. In older cars, especially those manufactured before 1975, replacing the filter will solve the problem. And if you continue to use ethanol-blended gasoline, your filter will remain cleaner for improved engine performance.


Myth: Ethanol isn't safe for older vehicles.


Fact: Many older cars were designed to run on leaded gasoline, with the lead providing necessary octane for performance. However, even dramatic changes in gasoline formulation over the past few years have not affected older engine performance. Ethanol, a natural, renewable additive, raises octane levels by three points and works well in older engines.


Myth: Ethanol harms small engines, like those on lawn mowers, snowmobiles, personal watercraft and recreational vehicles.


Fact: Small engine manufacturers have made certain that their engines perform with gasoline that contains oxygenates such as ethanol. Fact is, ethanol-blended fuel can be used safely in anything that runs on unleaded gasoline.


Myth: Ethanol actually increases air pollution.


Fact: There can be no increase in emission from ethanol-blended fuels; it's the law. In fact, ethanol reduces carbon monoxide emissions by as much as 25 percent and displaces components of gasoline that produce toxic emissions that cause cancer and other diseases.


Myth: Ethanol contributes to global warming.


Fact: The energy balance for ethanol is positive, 1.35 to 1, so the greenhouse gas benefits of ethanol are also positive. Fact is, using ethanol produces 32 percent fewer emissions of greenhouse gases than gasoline for the same distance traveled.


Myth: It takes more energy to produce ethanol than it contributes.


Fact: Fact is, corn plants efficiently collect and store energy, so for every 100 BTUs of energy used to produce ethanol, 135 BTUs of ethanol are produced. In addition, ethanol facilities are extremely energy efficient.


Myth: Ethanol production wastes corn that could be used for food.


Fact: In 2001, U.S. farmers produced 9.5 billion bushels of corn and only 600 million bushels are currently used in ethanol production. Fact is, there's no shortage of corn, and the ethanol market could expand significantly without negatively impacting its availability. Besides, ethanol production uses field corn, most of which is fed to livestock, not humans. Only the starch portion of the corn kernel is used to produce ethanol. The vitamins, minerals, proteins and fiber are converted to other products such as sweeteners, corn oil and high-value livestock feed, which helps livestock producers add to the overall food supply.


Myth: Ethanol does not benefit farmers.


Fact: Demand for grain from ethanol production increases net farm income more than $1.2 billion a year, and ethanol production adds $4.5 billion to U.S. farm income annually. Studies have shown that corn prices in markets near ethanol plants will increase between 5 cents and 8 cents per bushel. In North Dakota, ethanol production increases the market price for corn by 25 cents per bushel. In addition, ethanol production accounts for a portion of the overall corn supply and helps improve corn prices nationwide.


Myth: Ethanol only benefits farmers.


Fact: The increase in net farm income results in a boost in the agricultural sector that cuts farm program costs and taxpayer outlays. Beyond that, ethanol production has been responsible for more than 40,000 jobs, or more than $1.3 billion in household income. It also directly and indirectly adds more than $6 billion to the American economy each year by boosting surrounding economies.

Sources: American Coalition of Ethanol and the Renewable Fuels Association

N.D. Department of Commerce
1600 E. Century Avenue Suite 2
Phone: 701.328.5300
[email protected]
http://www.goefuel.com/facts/mythbusters.html
Why dont you just quote the cigarette companys claims that cigarettes pose no health threats. Seriously center for American progress, American coalition of ethanol.
tbanzer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 10:37 AM
  #22
Gold Member
Gold Member
Thread Starter
 
CcanDo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: DFW
My Boats: "Udderly Fantastic" Motion / 28 Skater 300x's / Bennington Tri-toon 350 Yam
Posts: 1,126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPM View Post
Just something I ran accross, don't know if it still holds true, Do I or Don't I upgrade: A few things to think about environment, driving habits, engine, fuel system, and selecting carb size.

Environment: Oil will not last and we can be ready now and slow the oil consumption and clean the air. The fun part is we can do this with lots of power and fun. E85 is made from corn but there is many plants like switch grass that will provide a better source for more E85 fuel.

Driving Habits: If you drive your show/race car just once or twice a year you may want to stay with gas because E85 works like a sponge grabbing all the water it can from the air. So driving some on a weekly basis would be good. If you use E85 keep it moving don't store it! If you need to park your car for long terms you should fill your tank with gas and stabill. This will provide you with some protection from rust and fuel system problems.

Engine: E85 likes high compression to make big power but it works fine on low compression engines to. You do need harden valve seats and to change the oil more often. E85 will bring more water into your oil, but with proper maintenance this should not cause problems.

Fuel System: Your current system might be just fine. Your fuel tank should be clean without rust and the vibration rubber sections in your fuel line should be replaced with new fuel hose. Your pump needs to pump about 25% more fuel and work with E85. We are using Holley mechanical and electric pumps without problems. Good fuel filter with stainless steel mesh element is always a must and braided fuel line is good for looks and safety.

Selecting E85 Carb Size: We recommend the following as a basic rule--which can be broken--for street/strip-driven cars with normal engine RPM from idle to 7,000 rpm. For 327 to 400 ci engines, choose the 750 E85 carb. For 400 to 468, 850 E85 carb; 468 to 500, 950 E85 carb; and for greater than 500, choose the new 1050 E85 carb. Of course if your engine will rev to a much higher rpm, you will need to select a larger carb. Of course duel carb's is an option.


Myth busters on Ethanol (E85)

Myth busters

Ethanol-blended gasoline powers cars and trucks hundreds of thousands of miles across the United States each and every year. In fact, it has powered vehicles through more than 2 trillion miles in the past 25 years. It is proven to decrease air pollution, enhance engine performance and boost local, regional and national economies. Every major automaker approves and warrantees its use. Even so, there's a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding out there. The truth is ethanol is economical, efficient and earth-friendly, and in North Dakota, it's good for all of us. Get the facts, and Go E85!

Myth: Ethanol makes your engine run hotter.


Fact: There's a reason many high-powered racing engines run on pure alcohol. It combusts at a lower temperature, keeping the engine cooler. Ethanol, a form of alcohol, in your fuel does the same for your engine. They run cooler.


Myth: Ethanol is bad for fuel injectors.


Fact: Olefins in gasoline cause deposits that can foul injectors. By comparison, ethanol burns 100 percent and leaves no residue, so it cannot contribute to the formation of deposits. Fact is, ethanol actually keeps fuel injectors cleaner and improves performance. What's more, ethanol does not increase corrosion, and it will not harm seals or valves.


Myth: Ethanol plugs fuel lines.


Fact: Ethanol actually keeps your fuel system cleaner than regular unleaded gasoline. In dirty fuel systems, ethanol loosens contaminants and residues and they can get caught in your fuel filter. In older cars, especially those manufactured before 1975, replacing the filter will solve the problem. And if you continue to use ethanol-blended gasoline, your filter will remain cleaner for improved engine performance.


Myth: Ethanol isn't safe for older vehicles.


Fact: Many older cars were designed to run on leaded gasoline, with the lead providing necessary octane for performance. However, even dramatic changes in gasoline formulation over the past few years have not affected older engine performance. Ethanol, a natural, renewable additive, raises octane levels by three points and works well in older engines.


Myth: Ethanol harms small engines, like those on lawn mowers, snowmobiles, personal watercraft and recreational vehicles.


Fact: Small engine manufacturers have made certain that their engines perform with gasoline that contains oxygenates such as ethanol. Fact is, ethanol-blended fuel can be used safely in anything that runs on unleaded gasoline.


Myth: Ethanol actually increases air pollution.


Fact: There can be no increase in emission from ethanol-blended fuels; it's the law. In fact, ethanol reduces carbon monoxide emissions by as much as 25 percent and displaces components of gasoline that produce toxic emissions that cause cancer and other diseases.


Myth: Ethanol contributes to global warming.


Fact: The energy balance for ethanol is positive, 1.35 to 1, so the greenhouse gas benefits of ethanol are also positive. Fact is, using ethanol produces 32 percent fewer emissions of greenhouse gases than gasoline for the same distance traveled.


Myth: It takes more energy to produce ethanol than it contributes.


Fact: Fact is, corn plants efficiently collect and store energy, so for every 100 BTUs of energy used to produce ethanol, 135 BTUs of ethanol are produced. In addition, ethanol facilities are extremely energy efficient.


Myth: Ethanol production wastes corn that could be used for food.


Fact: In 2001, U.S. farmers produced 9.5 billion bushels of corn and only 600 million bushels are currently used in ethanol production. Fact is, there's no shortage of corn, and the ethanol market could expand significantly without negatively impacting its availability. Besides, ethanol production uses field corn, most of which is fed to livestock, not humans. Only the starch portion of the corn kernel is used to produce ethanol. The vitamins, minerals, proteins and fiber are converted to other products such as sweeteners, corn oil and high-value livestock feed, which helps livestock producers add to the overall food supply.


Myth: Ethanol does not benefit farmers.


Fact: Demand for grain from ethanol production increases net farm income more than $1.2 billion a year, and ethanol production adds $4.5 billion to U.S. farm income annually. Studies have shown that corn prices in markets near ethanol plants will increase between 5 cents and 8 cents per bushel. In North Dakota, ethanol production increases the market price for corn by 25 cents per bushel. In addition, ethanol production accounts for a portion of the overall corn supply and helps improve corn prices nationwide.


Myth: Ethanol only benefits farmers.


Fact: The increase in net farm income results in a boost in the agricultural sector that cuts farm program costs and taxpayer outlays. Beyond that, ethanol production has been responsible for more than 40,000 jobs, or more than $1.3 billion in household income. It also directly and indirectly adds more than $6 billion to the American economy each year by boosting surrounding economies.

Sources: American Coalition of Ethanol and the Renewable Fuels Association

N.D. Department of Commerce
1600 E. Century Avenue Suite 2
Phone: 701.328.5300
[email protected]
http://www.goefuel.com/facts/mythbusters.html
BUT, the quote did not mention Marine Application, older/newer small engines or a solution (s) for Phase Separation.

The point remains : Marine Fuel and Small Engines consume such a small percentage of total consumption, while causing hardship, Congress should be informed.
CcanDo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 10:46 AM
  #23
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Loto
My Boats: 31 IMP
Posts: 107
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yahoo View Post
My favorite fact is that it takes almost a gallon of oil to produce 1 gallon of ethonal.

So why bother ?

Its a bad idea, and should be stopped.
Actually more if you count the fuel to put in the seed crop. What is worse is that it takes nearly 1000 gallons of water to make 1 gal of ethanol. Yes, 1000 gal. I was talking to a neighbor last night that owns a grain silo in MO. Over 40% of the corn crop in the area is going to ethanol production, and a large portion of ther crops too. Have you seen prices at the grocery store lately? Why are we burning 40% of our food supply when we have more oil in the us than anybody else in the world? (govt won't let us go get it)

If you think oil companies are greedy, please read this article to see what they are dealing with. Shell gave the govt 2.2 BILLION for a oil lease, spent another 4 BIL exploring and developing it. And the same govt that took the 2.2 billion denied them drilling permits because they failed to put the c02 emmisions of a boat that had to go to the site one time. Over 6 BIL, who is paying for that. Oh yeah. You and me.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/25...illing-denial/

Sorry it is a fox news article. I just did a quick search and it is the first one that came up. It only gives a brief overview, no details. Do a deeper search yourself. Also you might want to start reading the oil and gas journal. Very interesting.

Last edited by rchuntlsl; 08-07-2011 at 10:55 AM.
rchuntlsl is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 11:38 AM
  #24
Gold Member
Gold Member
Thread Starter
 
CcanDo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: DFW
My Boats: "Udderly Fantastic" Motion / 28 Skater 300x's / Bennington Tri-toon 350 Yam
Posts: 1,126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rchuntlsl View Post
Actually more if you count the fuel to put in the seed crop. What is worse is that it takes nearly 1000 gallons of water to make 1 gal of ethanol. Yes, 1000 gal. I was talking to a neighbor last night that owns a grain silo in MO. Over 40% of the corn crop in the area is going to ethanol production, and a large portion of ther crops too. Have you seen prices at the grocery store lately? Why are we burning 40% of our food supply when we have more oil in the us than anybody else in the world? (govt won't let us go get it)

If you think oil companies are greedy, please read this article to see what they are dealing with. Shell gave the govt 2.2 BILLION for a oil lease, spent another 4 BIL exploring and developing it. And the same govt that took the 2.2 billion denied them drilling permits because they failed to put the c02 emmisions of a boat that had to go to the site one time. Over 6 BIL, who is paying for that. Oh yeah. You and me.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/25...illing-denial/

Sorry it is a fox news article. I just did a quick search and it is the first one that came up. It only gives a brief overview, no details. Do a deeper search yourself. Also you might want to start reading the oil and gas journal. Very interesting.
The above post sparks a survey question.

Have you or anyone you may personally know, purchased undeveloped land, adjoining State or Federal Land, recently ???
CcanDo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 12:59 PM
  #25
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Turku, Finland
My Boats: Something small blown and light
Posts: 1,814
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownHawg View Post
If someday in the future they can "efficiently" produce ethanol from farm WASTE, I'd be for that, albeit outside of the marine market of course.
+1
That was the original idea behind ethanol fuels...
MikeyFIN is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 01:54 PM
  #26
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Loto
My Boats: 31 IMP
Posts: 107
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CcanDo View Post
The above post sparks a survey question.

Have you or anyone you may personally know, purchased undeveloped land, adjoining State or Federal Land, recently ???
No, but we just showed a client some that adjoins a large state park. Something I should know?
rchuntlsl is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 09:08 PM
  #27
Gold Member
Gold Member
Thread Starter
 
CcanDo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: DFW
My Boats: "Udderly Fantastic" Motion / 28 Skater 300x's / Bennington Tri-toon 350 Yam
Posts: 1,126
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rchuntlsl View Post
No, but we just showed a client some that adjoins a large state park. Something I should know?
The question was made out of curiosity.....What area did you show ?
CcanDo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 11:10 PM
  #28
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Loto
My Boats: 31 IMP
Posts: 107
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CcanDo View Post
The question was made out of curiosity.....What area did you show ?
A really awesome chunk of property out by Pendleton MO. Too bad my client can't make a decision.
rchuntlsl is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2011, 08:06 AM
  #29
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Thousand Islands area
My Boats: Fever
Posts: 2,288
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Br1dgemann View Post
Don't even get me started with ethanol - it costs more to produce, it contains less energy consequently affecting mileage of any vehicle using it, AND it causes all kinds of fuel system problems.

As stated above, corn and rice should be eaten, not burned.

Since it is really a drop in the bucket as far as weening America off of oil, let's take the money and put it to better use domestically.

It wouldnt be bad if thats what 100% of our fuel came from. They do it Brazil just fine and have been for over a a decade.

As it sits now yeah I disagree with it, due to the fact that it's really not that much cheaper, and the little bit it is cheaper by is negated by the fact that you lose up to 25% fuel economy and horse power.

But with that said if ethanoyl was 100% of our fuel that would mean boats, cars, ATVS manufactures would be forced to build gas tanks, engines and such that could handle this stuff. Sure prior built machines would not and would have issues with 100% ethanoyl. But I would guarentee you that conversion kits would be available and coatings for fuel tanks would also be available.

I am not promoting ethanoyl as much as I promoting finding a different fuel source. Ethanoyl is a viable option and if a third world country like Brazil can do it, I'm sure we can. If ethanoyl was the main fuel source production cost would drop, they dont make enough of it now so its not that cheap. I would be willing to take a MPG and performance hit if the stuff was $1 to $2 bucks a gallon.
soldier4402 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:51 PM.


Copyright 2011 OffShoreOnly. All rights reserved.