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Outerlimits sets new record

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Old 09-28-2011, 09:23 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by JCPERF View Post
I would have to say that it doesnt matter what you bring to this event.I had Joe Sgro at my shop today and i asked him every question in the book about doing this event.If you have big power you will use more fuel and might have to make a fuel stop.He said that Joes OL was the perfect boat for this race.It didnt have to stop for fuel,It got great fuel mileage[1.1 MPG]and was totally reliable.If you brought a big Skater Blower entry you would need a fuel stop and you have the reliabilty factor.Both Joes did this event with not even thinking they would break the record.It did happen though.They wanted to be first back.
Agree 100%. And Congrats once again to a well done job.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:44 PM
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I would have to agree with having classes......and then of course you will always have the overall winner.......it would make it that much more appealing to enter the race knowing I have a good shot at winning my class and also that "you never know" long shot of winning the overall.......I am sure with the organizers having a mandatory date to be registered will give a much clearer picture of what the race will look like ahead of time and then implement some sort of classes......just a guess though, I could be wrong.....
Having to divide the fleet into classes is what my friends in the business world call "a high-class problem." Given the limited interest so far and the various "equalizers" inherent in such a run, I don't see a need for it. Yet.
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:57 PM
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Having to divide the fleet into classes is what my friends in the business world call "a high-class problem." Given the limited interest so far and the various "equalizers" inherent in such a run, I don't see a need for it. Yet.
guys there were classes for this race A/B/C/D/ and H for old race boats 25yrs or older. Charlie if I understand your classes and rules there would be 5 class winners right? and if they broke the old record, they would win there class plus have a speed record like the fountain cc .which is great not to may classes. and if I recall in the old days the trophies were 6 or 7 ft tall plus money. your classes are good, not to many like the old days A,B,C,D,STOCK,PRO,MOD,OPEN,SUPERBOAT .guys look up this race and you will see the classes Billy and Charlie have set up. if I get it I would be in class C for boats 25 to 32ft long single i/b or twin ob not sure about twin i/b , I think should fit in there too. with these classes you could end up with a large group in each class. which would be great. again great job guys and I hope opa lets it races have a chance to race this next year. wish I made it this year, but next year looks real good.

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Old 09-29-2011, 07:40 AM
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If you dont understand my argument for classes then you simply dont understand math...

Seeing as though the organizers want this event to expand, i think everyone does...including myself, lets look at an example to counter your argument:

Without getting into statistics, lets say 20 boats enter a race. Lets say 10 (37'-42') OL's with big power reaching speeds in excess of 100 mph, 5 (36'-42') skaters again with big power, 4 (35'-43) donzis with moderate power still reaching 90mph and 1 Fastech 292 with small blocks top speed of 70 mph.

Theoretically the only way to win is to be the fastest around the island without breaking, right? Taking this into account, the only way for me to win (fastech) would be to hope the entire field does not finish (breaks). Reason being, i cant reach the speeds of competitors (no way for me to catch them). Simple right...Not so much. Without crunching numbers, I would venture a guess that the chances of everyone breaking down is in the area of 3-5%. That is being generous. Its simple math. The more participants the less of a chance of winning. But this is greatly influenced by the inability to reach the speeds of fellow participants.

I dont want to downplay what Joe did last year in his Sonic because it was brilliant but he only raced against 2 other boats. As a result it increased the statistical chances of winning dramatically. My guess is that this will not be the case in the future, especially with the addition of competitors having bigger/badder boats. Hope everyone understood that.

Thats why i think there is a need for classes. Especially if these races grow in size. There is a reason why nascar has the stringent rules they do for engine size, etc. Because speed matters!!!! Put everyone on an equal playing field.
It would perhaps appear that this type of racing is just not for you. There are classes. They just may not be tailored to your individual preferences. Cant please everyone. You mention equal playing field, it is a long distance race in the ocean. It can equalize anything. You want to talk math and statistics. Your boat is bone stock, statistically it has a much greater chance of continuing to run than any super modified high performance machine you are worried about being faster than you. From that perspective, you should be handicapped, no? You keep talking speed and parody, yet you mention Joe in his Sonic as last years winner. How fast did he run overall? Slower than your boat is capable of, no? If only the thought of winning a race like this appeals to you, then I believe you are missing the point. This may be a race to race for the sake of racing, old school style. If you win great, if not, at least you raced.
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:58 AM
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This is Exactly why there is limited interest in racing today......not the frequency of events, but the policy of catering to weekend warriors who "need" a boatload of rules, classes, course limits, comfort, convenience and a slew of other things that run contrary to the very core of long haul, no holds barred, endurance/marathon racing. A marathon is just that... a marathon...not a mini marathon...not a segmented marathon.. and certainly not 8 or 9 (GPS or non GPS) controlled laps on a 5 mile course in a bay or lake.....nor a "speed run" at some bar.

Your needs are precisely what begat Poker Runs and Shootouts, which are not events that real racers or real racing fans get excited about....yet I respect the need for such venues. Pretty girls in bikinis, oysters and drinks, showing off your big shiny motors, pulling up in your Lambo....I get it! On the other hand real racers are competitive in a more primal way and want very few "accomodations" beyond the opportunity to compete, especially when pitting themselves against other opponents and mother nature simultaneously. We built 30 foot cats that outran vee bottoms 6 to 10 feet longer in very rough seas over hundreds of miles and never worried about what was "fair" (of course the vee bottom builders used that word a lot..but that's another story )...and..... we could party with the best of them....AFTER the race (and sometimes after we had the sutures put in).

As to the earlier comments from another poster about older racers not being able to handle the "tight cornering" in today's races..... I submit that many of us "geezers" ran multiple closed course boat races in boats ranging from outboard hydros to twin engine vees, to tunnel boats, to inboard flat bottoms and hydros at speeds and in close quarters that would crimp your sphincter...as well as Offshore events. (I raced most of those...some, like Billy Sirois and Odell Lewis, did it all). Get back to me after you've run 9 hours on a 4 mile course in and out of Miami Marine stadium against 150+ boats, or 8 hours at Havasu or the Parker 9 hour...etc, etc. Further, your comment about "turning at 150 mph" is nonsense....Today's cats may peak out at 200 (occasionally...rarely in a race) but they turn at the same limits as anything else..... well south of your estimate. As far as a 70 MPH turn in a big vee bottom... that really "ain't no thang" other than to put a hull designed for rough water straightaways in the wrong environment, while encouraging a large group of clueless wannabes to emulate you and decorate the waterways with their hapless passengers as they spin out in their stepped bottom glamour boats.

Within the compass of this letter, I can do no more than indicate, as concisely as I can, relevant considerations that must be taken into account if we are to discuss Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's bestial, self-satisfied ipse dixits in a rational manner. First, the misinformation: Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing suggests that the moon is made of green cheese. Where the heck did it come up with that? I hardly know. But I will stake the immortality of my soul that I was entirely gobsmacked the first time I saw Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing hurting people's feelings. Since then, I've seen it do that so many times that I hardly bat an eyelid when someone tells me that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing and I are as different as chalk and cheese. It, for instance, wants to desecrate religious objects. I, on the other hand, want to counteract the subtle but pervasive social message that says that we can change the truth if we don't like it the way it is. That's why I need to tell you that it's like the man behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz. Pull back the curtain of Bulverism and you'll see a loathsome, baleful sod hiding behind it, furiously pulling the levers of neocolonialism in a petulant attempt to peddle fake fears to the public. That sort of discovery should make any sane person realize that before Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing initiated an obscurantism flap to help promote its laughable, crafty remonstrations, people everywhere were expected to begin a course of careful, planned, and coordinated action. Nowadays, it's the rare person indeed who realizes that many of us are too naïve and trusting. It takes a lot of convincing to get us to see an organization as inherently huffy or inherently disingenuous. Alas, Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing is doing all it can to provide us with unmistakable proof that it is inherently both. For instance, Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing wants nothing less than to twist the teaching of history to suit its grotty purposes. Its secret agents then wonder, "What's wrong with that?" Well, there's not much to be done with doctrinaire, illaudable wiseacres who can't figure out what's wrong with that, but the rest of us can plainly see that the main dissensus between me and Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing is that I believe that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's conclusions are cuckoo to the core. It, on the other hand, contends that cell-phone towers are in fact covert mind-control devices that use scalar waves to beam images into people's brains while they sleep.

Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing has brainwashed a large number of people into believing that it's a moral exemplar. Alas, we can't change people's minds overnight, and we can't instantly and totally dispel the delusions implanted by Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's lewd lies, but we can penetrate the sunny façade of Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's nostrums with the sharpened stick of reality. That might help a few brainwashees see that when Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing stated that it has achieved sainthood, I concluded that it was thoroughly brutish. …
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:59 AM
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…Now that it claims that everyone who fails to think and act in strict accordance with its requirements is a lawless jabberer, I claim that it's crossed the line into post-rationalist neo-Hegelianism. Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing never stops boasting about its generous contributions to charitable causes. As far as I can tell, however, its claimed magnanimousness is utterly chimerical, and, furthermore, all of Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's peons are thieves—idle, envious, and ready to plunder and enslave their weaker neighbors. It's therefore not surprising that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing used to maintain that it does the things it does "for the children". When it realized that no one was falling for that claptrap, it quickly changed its tune to say that human beings should be appraised by the number of things and the amount of money they possess instead of by their internal value and achievements. Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing is indubitably a litigious liar, and shame on anyone who believes it. But this is something to be filed away for future letters. At present, I wish to focus on only one thing: the fact that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing keeps talking about the importance of its cause. As far as I can tell, its "cause" is to ransack people's homes. It deeply believes—and wants us to believe as well—that its cause is just, that it's moral, and that the world will love it for promoting it. In reality, Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's clumsy flacks exercise control through indirect coercion or through psychological pressure or manipulation for no better reason than to be above someone on the social ladder. It's that simple.
While some of Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's refrains are very attractive on the surface and are undeniably entertaining, they ultimately serve to eviscerate every bit of social progress of the past century. Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing is not just testy. It is unbelievably, astronomically testy. Can you believe that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing once said that its brownshirt brigade is looking out for our best interests? I have a collection of similar pearls from Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing, but rather than recite them all I'll simply point out that I once had a nightmare in which Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing was free to stand in the way of progress. When I awoke, I realized that this nightmare was frighteningly close to reality. For instance, it is the case both in my nightmare and in reality that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing may have access to weapons of mass destruction. Then again, I consider it to be a weapon of mass destruction itself.
Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's adulators are tools. Like a hammer or an axe, they are not inherently evil or destructive. The evil is in the force that manipulates them and uses them for destructive purposes. That evil is Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing, who wants nothing less than to destroy the lives of good, honest people. In this land which has befriended base-minded lumpenproletariats, Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing has conspired, plotted, undermined, prostituted, and corrupted, and—hiding to this hour behind the braver screen of unstable election-year also-rans—dares to contrive and scheme the death of every principle that has protected it. Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing is often accused of defiling the air and water in the name of profit. Its flunkies usually respond with a message along the lines of, "So what? At least Closed Circuit "Offshore' Racing isn't killing the messenger and controlling the message." I suppose there's an argument to be made for that, but aren't we forgetting that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing sees life as a repulsive game without any rules?
Although I decidedly reject Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's demands, it is also true that irreligionism is correctly defined by its moonstruck style, structure, and methods, not by its stated or apparent ideological premises or goals. This is a perverse paradox, the implications of which are too namby-pamby to dwell on short of saying that it's obviously astounding that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing has somehow found a way to work the words "counterestablishment" and "pseudoconglomeration" into its threats. However, you may find it even more astounding that the real question here is not, "What in tarnation was it thinking when it said that sending children to die as martyrs for causes that it is unwilling to die for itself is essential for the safety and welfare of the public?". The real question is rather, "Does its oversized ego demand that it sucker us into buying a lot of junk we don't need?" My best guess, for what it may be worth, is based on two key observations. The first observation is that even its most nettlesome goombahs are trained in the use of force, deadly force, advanced weaponry, and offensive and defensive tactics. The second, more telling, observation is that when people see slatternly lackwits behaving like slatternly lackwits they begin to realize that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing will fail if we unite. Of that I am certain because purists may object to my failure to present specific examples of Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's irrational perorations. Fortunately, I do have an explanation for this omission. The explanation demands an understanding of how I admit that I'm not perfect. I admit that I may have been a bit pharisaical when I stated that as sure as a bear does you-know-what in the woods, Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing will hasten society's quiescence to moral pluralism and epistemological uncertainty by the next full moon. Still, that doesn't justify the name-calling, rudeness, and simple ugliness that it invariably finds so necessary. Nor does it justify Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's denying the legitimacy of those who speak out against revolting yo-yos.
How many of Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's satraps are content to sit around doing absolutely nothing to contribute to the world around them? I'd hazard to guess that the number is pretty high. Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's habitués have tried repeatedly to assure me that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing will eventually tire of its plan to usher in the beginning of a domineering new era of Maoism and will then step aside and let us discuss the advantages of two-parent families, the essential role of individual and family responsibility, the need for uniform standards of civil behavior, and the primacy of the work ethic. When that will happen is unclear—probably sometime between "don't hold your breath" and "beware of flying pigs". …
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:00 AM
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…Some critics have called Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing sinful. A handful insist it's jackbooted. Its gofers, on the other hand, consider it to be one of the great minds of this century. Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing once heard an appalling upstart say, "Mediocrity is a worthwhile goal." What's amazing is that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing was then able to use that quotation plus some anecdotal evidence to convince its loyalists that it is clean and bright and pure inside, which clearly makes me wonder, "What exactly is its point?" Well, I asked the question so I should answer it. Let me start by saying that only the impartial and unimpassioned mind will even consider that you can hear the crwth's fremescent clangor every time it tries to prostrate the honor, power, independence, laws, and property of entire countries. If, after hearing facts like that, you still believe that its mealymouthed gang is a respected civil-rights organization, then there is unmistakably no hope for you.
Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing wants to ensure that there can never in the future be accord, unity, or a common, agreed-upon destiny among the citizens of this once-great nation. But what if the tables were turned? How would Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing like that? I indeed hope that the truth will prevail and that justice will be served before Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing does any real damage. Or is it already too late? After days of agonized pondering and reflection I finally came to the conclusion that some of Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's former operatives say they were willing to help Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing unleash an unparalleled wave of negativism because Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing convinced them that they were part of a historic mission to save the world from a nasty global conspiracy—a belief they now reject as disorganized. Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing may mean well, but unless we maintain the great principles of virtue, truth, right, and honor, no real changes will ever occur. But there's the rub; I no longer believe that trends like family breakdown, promiscuity, and violence are random events. Not only are they explicitly glorified and promoted by Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's benighted positions, but it doesn't simply want people to believe that it can be trusted to judge the rest of the world from a unique perch of pure wisdom. It wants this belief drummed into people's heads from birth. It wants it to be accepted as an axiom, an assumed part of the nature of reality. Only then will Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing truly be able to get away with dumping effluent into creeks, lakes, streams, and rivers.
The cry of "bigot" is raised mostly by bigots. As an interesting experiment, try to point this out to it. (You might want to don safety equipment first.) I think you'll find that if you're interested in the finagling, double-dealing, chicanery, cheating, cajolery, cunning, rascality, and abject villainy by which Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing may irritate an incredible number of people when you least expect it, then you'll want to consider the following very carefully. You'll especially want to consider that our path is set. By this, I mean that in order to champion the force of goodness against the greed of the most sniffish serpents I've ever seen, we must expand people's understanding of its ill-natured, unforgiving expositions. I consider that requirement a small price to pay because Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing has warned us that in the immediate years ahead, inaniloquent astrologers will take the focus off the real issues. If you think about it, you'll realize that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing's warning is a self-fulfilling prophecy in the sense that Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing has, at times, called me "inerudite" or "meddlesome". Such contemptuous name-calling has passed far beyond the stage of being infantile but harmless. It has the capacity to destroy the heart and fabric of our nation.
I was once asked, "What exactly is the principle that rationalizes Closed Circuit "Offshore' Racing's insensate, combative editorials?". I'm not quite sure how to answer such a question. The problem is that if Closed Circuit 'Offshore" Racing is victorious in its quest to advocate its philosophies amid a hue and cry as unmannerly as it is violent, then its crown will be the funeral wreath of humanity. Let me end this letter by challenging my readers to advocate social change through dialogue, passive resistance, and nonviolence. Are you with me, or with the forces of solecism and oppression?

At the core of this debate is the significant difference between today's racing and racers and the older, rougher, nastier version(s) that formed the foundation of the sport. Those who lived and raced in the days of big fleets and 150+ mile courses in big seas have a lot to contribute and might know more than you give us credit for. You see, at the end of the day, we have the benefit of seeing and experiencing the current model against the background of the original version, but folks who can't listen and learn from the past very rarely have much of value to say. Of course that doen't mean they don't talk alot.

T2x

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Old 09-29-2011, 09:07 AM
  #198
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At that point its not racing. Its wishing and hoping upon a star!!! Whats the word for it...Oh yea, "LUCK".

Pretty lame in my book.
Your opinions are all valid...However... Had this been a more "normal" fall day, the water conditions would have made the record speed impossible...... There certainly should be a few classes.... single Outboard, multi OB, single IB, twin IB, Historical...and that's about it. It is interesting that the "Joe's" used modest power....since mega power motors probably can't sustain more than 50 or 60 miles of rough water racing and also burn fuel like their tanks are leaking.

One other point of clarification.....Sorry Billy and Charlie....

Don Aronow in no way "pioneered" the Around Long Island Marathon. He entered it 4 or 5 times, I believe, out of the 8-10 years it lasted before the event moved to the Jersey shore as the Hennessey Grand Prix and later Benihana, Walsh, etc, etc.

The race was started by a group of LI boat dealers, racers, and builders in concert with folks like Guy Lombardo, Al Grover, Rick Stein and others. It became a staple on the Offshore circuit due to interest from Mercury Marine, Glastron, Eltro, Crusader, American Finn and the APBA's new Offshore special events which included the Miami Nassau race and the Hurricane Classic. In those days inshore and offshore marathon classes were frequently mixed together and some boats raced in both. In fact a twin engine 18 foot Powercat won it one year with Odell Lewis and Johnny Bakos driving for the "Old Man" long before Donzi or Formula were a gleam in Don's eyes... (See Below). This was in the late 50's and early 60's before Aronow was Aronow..... and Sam Griffith was the biggest name in the sport.

It is a fitting tribute to Don that the revival is dedicated in his honor, but he in no way was a founder of the event.

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Old 09-29-2011, 09:12 AM
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:19 AM
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BRAVO, WELL SAID,ABOUT TIME, AND WELCOME BACK T2x
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