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Who is Still making a non stepped hull?

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Old 11-09-2011, 09:41 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by madhatter42 View Post
[url]all boats can stuff...that has NOTHING to do with the hull...ZERO...boat comes off, comes down wrong on the back side of a wave...any boat will come apart...


HE SHOT THE BOAT UNDER WATER...THE BOAT DISAPPEARED....you put that much stress on anything it WILL come apart...
With all the video out there of Apaches racing over the years in some very big water where is the video of one stuffing and coming apart? No way that water is 5-6' and no way that OL is going 90. There are plenty of stuffing videos from freeze frame over the years and a vast majority dont come apart.

Are you saying that all boats run with the same attitude? To say that no hull is more susceptible to running bow down is silly If a boat runs flatter than it most certainly can be more prone to stuffing.

Ask Dan Adams about the difference in running attitude between his 41 Saber and his 42 Fountain.

SS930 Wheres any race video of a OL running 130 in big water? Large water races today, what few there are do not have any vbottoms running faster than 80-90 so your theory makes no sense. BTW Apache has not built a boat in 20 years so theres not a big influx of new Apaches for guys to race. Predator won its class three years ago in Key West in a 20 year old boat. How many 20 year old OL's are winning races?

You guys have dragged this thread on for many pages talking about a stepped hull boat that the question that started the thread had nothing to do with You make everyone want to challenge your declarations even when we dont have any dog in the fight nor care about it.

How about returning to the theme here which is non stepped hulls like Sutphen ect?

NK
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:26 AM
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I agree with NK in that an OL in all the high speed vids Ive seen, the new boats seem to run much "flatter" (except for Scot's) than older v bottom boats. The gunwalls also see very low and they now look like rocket ships! Amazing designs. With that being said, I dont think(IMO) that they will compare to a "nose in the air", very deep, very heavy old school Apache in big nasty water. The new OL are designed to go fast, not designed to go through the seas that you see the 47 Apache going through in the 1990 Key West Vid.

You put a 130 MPH OL in THIS water for 100 miles and the 90 MPH Apache will get there first!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niwjM...eature=related
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Nauti Kitty View Post
With all the video out there of Apaches racing over the years in some very big water where is the video of one stuffing and coming apart? No way that water is 5-6' and no way that OL is going 90. There are plenty of stuffing videos from freeze frame over the years and a vast majority dont come apart.

Are you saying that all boats run with the same attitude? To say that no hull is more susceptible to running bow down is silly If a boat runs flatter than it most certainly can be more prone to stuffing.

Ask Dan Adams about the difference in running attitude between his 41 Saber and his 42 Fountain.

SS930 Wheres any race video of a OL running 130 in big water? Large water races today, what few there are do not have any vbottoms running faster than 80-90 so your theory makes no sense. BTW Apache has not built a boat in 20 years so theres not a big influx of new Apaches for guys to race. Predator won its class three years ago in Key West in a 20 year old boat. How many 20 year old OL's are winning races?

You guys have dragged this thread on for many pages talking about a stepped hull boat that the question that started the thread had nothing to do with You make everyone want to challenge your declarations even when we dont have any dog in the fight nor care about it.

How about returning to the theme here which is non stepped hulls like Sutphen ect?

NK
Ya, it's pretty easy to get green water comin at ya over the bow with the fountain. 2-4s will do it
The Saber however is a WAY different story. Falling into a 10 ft hole at 70, I swore we were goin under, nope, the water parted at the tip of bow. It was like we were in a white tunnel an never got wet, launched huge on to the next one and said yee haa.
The fountain runs really flat, difficult at best to get the bow up unless you slow way down and let the azz drop. The saber runs bow up and has to be pushed down. Running at high speed it's back on the tail if you don't tuck the drives and use some tab... even at cruise speeds.

Last edited by Dan Adams; 11-09-2011 at 01:40 PM. Reason: forgot somthing
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:32 PM
  #204
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Just for fairness, lest anyone comment, power for power the two boats in calm water would not be close in speed. I'm well aware that the fountain hull is far faster, equal power, as is any OL

Now back to the debate!

NK
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comanche3Six View Post
So ....your saying that OL was going 130!!!!!!! when it stuffed & blew apart?
Do you have reading comprehension issues? Where did I say any boat blew apart at any speed? Did I mention OL anywhere in my post? Please dont twist my words.

My point (since physics and comprehension aren't your strengths) is that all things being equal, a boat traveling at 80mph will have far less kinetic energy than the same traveling at 130mph. So on some type of impact (say a stuff) obviously the forces will be much greater at higher speeds. If a boat is only capable of say 80 mph and an identical boat is capable of speeds of say 130mph, the chances of seeing failure is far greater with the boat capable of running faster (all things being equal).

With that said, water is dynamic and it is nearly impossible to recreate the conditions that cause a failure as there a a lot of factors that would need to be duplicated to compare one hull/impact to another and the all the factors can't be easily measured or even be recreated. You basically cant do it, and you certainly can't do it based off 20 year old low res you tube videos! If you wanted to test and compare hull strength you'd pretty much have to completely standardize all the factors and while monitoring with load cells and working to failure. Obviously this would be destructive testing and nobody is going to spend (waste) the money to do such a test.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4195 View Post
the lighter OL is faster and most likely has more flex and would be more prone to coming apart.
I certainly haven't done any testing on hull strength, but I would argue that the carbon/epoxy layups of these newer OL are far stronger pound for pound compared to our old resin buckets. In fact, there are far more rigid (less flex) as well. Obviously they could be laid up so lightly that strength can be in question, but comparing the layup schedules, all things being equal, the epoxy boats will be far, far, far stronger and more rigid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nauti Kitty View Post
SS930 Wheres any race video of a OL running 130 in big water? Large water races today, what few there are do not have any vbottoms running faster than 80-90 so your theory makes no sense. BTW Apache has not built a boat in 20 years so theres not a big influx of new Apaches for guys to race. Predator won its class three years ago in Key West in a 20 year old boat. How many 20 year old OL's are winning races?
NK
See my post above, again I did not say anything about any 20 year race videos (nor do I give two shlts about them) or one brand or another... Reread my post. Saying a boat that tops out at 80 mph is stronger than a boat that is capable of much higher speeds is just silly... especially when you're using 20 year old you tube videos as your standard to gage the energy created on impact. IMO, you simply can not compare or recreate forces generated based on these silly videos you guys keep referencing. Every impact is different and as speed increases so do the potential forces of that impact.

Now continue on with your 20 year old you tube video bench racing...
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS930 View Post
Reread my post. Saying a boat that tops out at 80 mph is stronger than a boat that is capable of much higher speeds is just silly... especially when you're using 20 year old you tube videos as your standard to gage the energy created on impact. IMO, you simply can not compare or recreate forces generated based on these silly videos you guys keep referencing. Every impact is different and as speed increases so do the potential forces of that impact.
:
reread my post
I said that vbottom race boats running today are not going over 80-90 in big water, if there is any, so "topping out" is not the point I made. 90 is 90 in any boat so I dont care how fast it runs on some river, the forces are exactly the same on an OL as these Apaches in large waves going 90. So far the only "silly" video I saw posted, of which none are mine, showed an OL blowing up in waves that another 20 year old video shows an Apache running the same if not greater speeds and not going under and coming apart.
Are you saying "kinetic forces" are now much stronger then 20 years ago?
With the videos in this thread of OL's spinning out and blowing apart I can certainly understand why you dont give "two ****s" about these videos Ed posted.
Perhaps everyone else reading this thread about straight vbottoms likes them? Just sayn

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Old 11-09-2011, 03:31 PM
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couple boats coming apart; [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpHjLS8IoaU[/YOUTUBE]

Anyone remember the 33' Powerplay that submarined in Key West?
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:34 PM
  #208
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(quote)SS930: Now continue on with your 20 yr old you tube video bench racing...

OK! I love this video......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUnbmh16_2o

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Old 11-09-2011, 03:41 PM
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Old 11-09-2011, 04:06 PM
  #210
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I have question for the Outerlimits owners or heirs to one

1. Who makes the fastest hull?

2. Who has the best hull construction?

3. Who has made the best rough water boats that have proven themselves?

4.Best riding boat?
Now there can be more then one answer for each question
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