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Regarding the worsening Ethanol Fuel situation - a DIY solution

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Old 11-06-2011, 09:46 PM
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I always wondered if you blew a motor and had gas at over 10% if the gas station or fuel suplier would be liable? It says 10% MAX on the label.... So if I was to blow a motor and test the fuel and find it to be at say 20% wouldn't they be liable?
Good luck with that, I blew a Snowmobile up that was jetted safe 6 miles after filling up in the UP of Mi, went back and tested the gas there too the next day, crap was watered down, phase seperated garbage, talked to a Lawyer, said bring him 2500$ and he would file suit, he sent a nasty letter to this independent,never got a response. I avoid that place now like the Plague, I try to never buy gas from small town low volume stations any more and I do test the stuff often. I mentioned this Trout Lake Mi gas station on a Snowmobile forumm and I wasn't the first guy to blow up after gassing up there!!!! Smitty
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Old 11-06-2011, 09:56 PM
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Last winter a few of my friends had their two stroke snowmobiles burn down. These sleds were maintained well etc, etc. We started thinking about the ethanol levels prompting a call to two refineries. I spoke with a chemist at each company asking specifically about additives to mitigate these effects.

Long story short there are none. While neither one of the employees would say for sure that these additives are "Junk" they did say that the biggest problem with ethanol fuels are phase separation. Simply put when ethanol in the fuel absorbs all the water it can (Saturation) any additional water will cause the water/ethanol mix to separate from the gas lower the octane level at least three points (I was told likely more).

I was told that fuel ought to be used in a two week period. If stored, use stabil (Helps, not a cure). If in amrine environment drain the tank. I know its contrary to what we all have been told in the past.

Common sense regarding additives, if one were the magic bullet, it would have mobil, bp etc. on the bottle and sold at every station. Ethanol is detrimental to ALL of our hobbies.

I was also told that it will not increase higher than 10% due to auto manufacturers not having fuel systems that will survive.
I have found in testing that MANY stations are past 15% ethanol and some were almost 20%, no one checks this. I have melted down Snowmobiles after getting crap gas, had a incident a few years ago from a local station near my house, it was closed while new owners took over, just re-opened, I filled 2 sleds up and went up riding over Christmas, I made it 1 mile before both sleds started running so bad they quit. I walked back and found some fresh gas, used one to tow the other back and luckily this stuff had phase seperated so bad they simply just quit instead of leaning out and melting down which was a pia but I didn't have tpo do anything other than drain them, clean out the carbs and lines then they were fine. I bought a gallon of premium there the next day and it was 1/2 water/ethanol and one half low grade gas. You didn't need to test it to see it, the clear 1 gal bottle I had it in was divided 1/2 way down!!!! The gas station owner gave me the money back for the bad gas, and 100$ for my trouble, still lost a day of riding and had to walk but I know from past experience that taking him to court would cost more than it was worth and I didn't in that instance acxtually have a serious loss. I can't stress enough for people to spend a few minutes doing a simple test to see the content of alchohol is there gas,, it will either give you piece of mind or you will know to NEVER buy from that station, Smitty
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Old 11-06-2011, 10:45 PM
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Maybe this kit is a slightly easier version for what Smitty was talking about??

Looks like it's expensive enough and apparently you pay that much per sample so maybe you try to buy your boat fuel at one place only and say maybe sample it once a month??

I dunno -

http://www.fuel-testers.com/order.html
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Old 11-06-2011, 10:55 PM
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I am just going to buy a Diesel boat ......with stacks!! That will solve my issues. Can you say REDNECK??
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:59 AM
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Maybe this kit is a slightly easier version for what Smitty was talking about??

Looks like it's expensive enough and apparently you pay that much per sample so maybe you try to buy your boat fuel at one place only and say maybe sample it once a month??

I dunno -

http://www.fuel-testers.com/order.html
That is a simple cheap test kit, 32$ and if you read the fine print the titrating solution is enough to test 450 times, not a one shot deal, Smitty
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:30 AM
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Mercury marine sells a simple to use ethanol test kit for under $10.00 if I remember correctly. You put a small amount of gas in a vile and add a small amount of tap water, wait a couple of minutes then read the scale on the vile for percentage of ethanol.
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Old 11-07-2011, 07:54 AM
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Good luck with that, I blew a Snowmobile up that was jetted safe 6 miles after filling up in the UP of Mi, went back and tested the gas there too the next day, crap was watered down, phase seperated garbage, talked to a Lawyer, said bring him 2500$ and he would file suit, he sent a nasty letter to this independent,never got a response. I avoid that place now like the Plague, I try to never buy gas from small town low volume stations any more and I do test the stuff often. I mentioned this Trout Lake Mi gas station on a Snowmobile forumm and I wasn't the first guy to blow up after gassing up there!!!! Smitty
Why involve a Lawyer in something like that? Just do the small claims thing. They would have a hard time defending it if you can show that the ethenol was over the 10% mark. Now instead of blowing a sled motor that costs you a grand or two to fix what about some of these guys motors that have huge money in then. I did do a search and there seem to be a few going but no results posted.
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:05 PM
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well Ray, there is one quick simple fix. quit subsidizing the ethanol industry and quit putting it in the fuel and let the free market do it's thing. unfortunately there are too many corrupt and inept people making those decisions.
The thing is, without subsidies, the only fuel sold would be ethanol! Ethanol without any subsidies of any kind, including all costs (such as land and the fact you've got to invest in growing it for a long time before you can make it and then it still takes awhile before you can sell it) COSTS ABOUT $1.10 PER GALLON in the tanker truck driving to your local gas station.

Its actually the petroleum industry that gets the hand outs, even at $100 a bbl. Count the ways: 1) they get the hundreds of millions of years it took for oil to form for free; 2) they get the hundreds of billions of dollars per year required for military protection of the global supply chain for free; 3) they get the global climate change effects for free (everyone will pay an awfully large bill soon for this); 4) they get the global distribution infrastructure (harbors, pipelines, trains, roadways) for free; 5) They get the oil itself for essentially nothing (the leases are essentially free); 6) They get to pollute the ground water for free (everyone else pays).

In other words, the petroleum industry is very similar to the financial industry in its privatization of profits combined with the public bailouts for liabilities. Its really hard to get further from free enterprise than with entrenched energy.
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:13 PM
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.....Its actually the petroleum industry that gets the hand outs, ...hard to get further from free enterprise than with entrenched energy.
Strike back. Buy stock in the oil companies and collect your share of the profits.
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:23 PM
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The thing is, without subsidies, the only fuel sold would be ethanol! Ethanol without any subsidies of any kind, including all costs (such as land and the fact you've got to invest in growing it for a long time before you can make it and then it still takes awhile before you can sell it) COSTS ABOUT $1.10 PER GALLON in the tanker truck driving to your local gas station.
Really? Where can you buy it for that? I work in the chemical industry, and our commodity purchasers would love to know your supplier - fuel grade ethanol is trading right now for an average of $1.93 without frieght.

And that is, by the way, the subsidized price.
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