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Old 11-24-2011, 11:07 PM
  #111
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I've been reading this post since the crash.....their are some good points and their are a lot of NO KNOWLEGE opinions.

1. Our canopy is multi-laminated, this design would not work with a roll bar.....the roll bar would make the canopy to rigid (like glass). It was made to flex.

2. The canopy flexed during the high speed impact and then eventually broke....the point is, it did take the initial impact,
THAT IS WHAT SAVED OUR LIVES.
Most people have no idea of the amount of pressure water has during a 115mph stuff

3. Could safety be improved? THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM FOR SAFETY IMPROVEMENT.

4. Will we learn from this accident? We'd be idiots not to build a better mouse trap here.

5. I was in the boat....DANNY and I LIVED, without to much injury......The boat and canopy did their job, for this type of accident.

END OF STORY

MikeyFIN...thanks for the backup
Glad you guys survived! I raced with Bob Morgan in 1997 98 99. I was the driver. Haven't really said much about this bad year in Key West because it is what it is and i'm really upset about what happened. Bobs son and I stuffed the old 4 engine 46 Skater in Miami at 110 mph hour so I kind of know what you guys went through. Theres a small group of people working together to make the boats safer. Some manufactures listen better then others. Boats will alway fail at some point but as you know theres always room for improvement on most boats out there. If you want to bounce any ideas around on your rebuild I would be happy to share ideas on designs that work better. Good luck on a full recovery!!
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Old 11-25-2011, 11:13 AM
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. Theres a small group of people working together to make the boats safer. Some manufactures listen better then others.
Can you tell us anything more about this?
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Old 11-25-2011, 10:57 PM
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Can you tell us anything more about this?
Take a good look at Mystics and Doug Wrights Newer boats as well as the Citron. I build the thicker laminated WS for these boats as well as discuss installation methods using extra thick inner flanges with outer retainers to help hold the WS in place instead of blowing out. We also reduced size of exposed WS to help reduce the amount of energy it has to over come when the boat stuffs or rolls. These designs will still fail at some point but will hang in there much better then whats out there. I build and install aerospace windshield for a living and raced for 5 years in the 90s. Two years in a 28 skater and three in Bobs 46 Skaters. By the way. I build thicker laminated windows for Skater on the newer boats but the only one I would be happy with is the way Talking Trash modified theirs by adding the outer retainer and reducing the amount of exposed window area. MTI has done a great job on some of their latest boat as well. I'm no billy Bad azz ruler of the world or anything but just doing some commonsense stuff to make the top of the boat as strong as the bottom in case you crash.
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Old 11-26-2011, 12:11 AM
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i was on the sebago, shooting into the sun most of the day and super choppy...was not a pleasureable afternoon
i was also on the sebago on sunday,i saw him shooting these pictures,i am amazed how anyone could get this quality with 6 foot seas,the seabago was rocking,it was almost imposible to walk on it,nikonmiami,u are my hero.
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by FREEDOM US1 View Post
Take a good look at Mystics and Doug Wrights Newer boats as well as the Citron. I build the thicker laminated WS for these boats as well as discuss installation methods using extra thick inner flanges with outer retainers to help hold the WS in place instead of blowing out. We also reduced size of exposed WS to help reduce the amount of energy it has to over come when the boat stuffs or rolls. These designs will still fail at some point but will hang in there much better then whats out there. I build and install aerospace windshield for a living and raced for 5 years in the 90s. Two years in a 28 skater and three in Bobs 46 Skaters. By the way. I build thicker laminated windows for Skater on the newer boats but the only one I would be happy with is the way Talking Trash modified theirs by adding the outer retainer and reducing the amount of exposed window area. MTI has done a great job on some of their latest boat as well. I'm no billy Bad azz ruler of the world or anything but just doing some commonsense stuff to make the top of the boat as strong as the bottom in case you crash.
Way to go Jim, to me thats the common sense way to approach it. I think one of the things that is overlooked by the masses is the sheer force of water and the intrusion factor is so much different that air. a canopy or a windshiled in air does have to remain intact to take a strike, air not being a solid will take the path of least resistance. water as a solid and being pressurized from a flip or a stuff with make its own path, generally at the weakest point, think of a water jet that is used to cut steel.
Another consideration is that in the event of a flip, the water displaces everything, so on top of the carnage from the impact you have water displacing all the air and drivers possibly unconscious from the impact and water coming in from all around, you just took a horrible situation and made it worse. Is full time air now going to be mandatory? one of the safety checks for each team should be a working oxygen system, no worky, no racey...
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:05 AM
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Way to go Jim, to me thats the common sense way to approach it. I think one of the things that is overlooked by the masses is the sheer force of water and the intrusion factor is so much different that air. a canopy or a windshiled in air does have to remain intact to take a strike, air not being a solid will take the path of least resistance. water as a solid and being pressurized from a flip or a stuff with make its own path, generally at the weakest point, think of a water jet that is used to cut steel.
Another consideration is that in the event of a flip, the water displaces everything, so on top of the carnage from the impact you have water displacing all the air and drivers possibly unconscious from the impact and water coming in from all around, you just took a horrible situation and made it worse. Is full time air now going to be mandatory? one of the safety checks for each team should be a working oxygen system, no worky, no racey...
What it really comes down to is the two guys getting in the boat and what their willing to risk. All the rules in the world won't save lives in every situation. Nothing keeps guys from wearing full time air now. We used to have full size tanks in big thunder in 1998 although the masks we wore wouldnt work if we were past out. You would need to wear a sealed helmet with a boot around your neck like the drag boat guys to work when your passed out. Nothing really stops anybody from wearing those now but I think it would be going over board to make it mandatory. I do however think if your going to run in a canopy boat there should be some new canopy requirements. Something as simple as adding a stronger and wider inner retainer and adding a outer bra and or retainer reducing the exposed windshield area to existing boats like Talking Trash did on their Skater. A thicker window would be nice as well but retainers would help the existing windows hold up better as a start and keep referb costs down for teams on a tight budget. This would save lives. But you still could die. Its racing!! I'm not here for a debate but just trying to help. I wish everybody the best! Good luck!
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:52 PM
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Take a good look at Mystics and Doug Wrights Newer boats as well as the Citron. I build the thicker laminated WS for these boats as well as discuss installation methods using extra thick inner flanges with outer retainers to help hold the WS in place instead of blowing out. We also reduced size of exposed WS to help reduce the amount of energy it has to over come when the boat stuffs or rolls. These designs will still fail at some point but will hang in there much better then whats out there.

I guess they are polycarbonate wind screens? How thick are they?
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Old 11-26-2011, 02:47 PM
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Stretched acrylic, laminated 2 layers with an intermediate bond, 3/4" thk on the Fury race boat. It is also amazing clear with no noticeable distortion.
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Old 11-26-2011, 03:07 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW7I_...eature=related These tandem cockpits with what appear to be a fighter canopy seem to address many of the issues discussed here. I have read a few negative issues with the in other threads....are there inherent problems with these layouts that take them out of consideration?
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Old 11-26-2011, 04:02 PM
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I guess they are polycarbonate wind screens? How thick are they?
.950 laminated stretched acrilic on Mystic , . 500 and .750 laminated stretched on DW and .750 laminated poly on the newer Skaters. The windows alone wont make a boats stronger . Its all about the the installation as well. In the end these structures well still fail at a certain point but will take higher loads then before . Hopefully they will hang in there for most if not all. More work needs to be done.
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