Awesome shots Nikon, what body/lens were you shooting with?

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/265660-cockpit-construc
 

Moved my response to the Cockpit construction thread.

WOW ! Awesome that Danny will be OK & great pics Nikon:drink:




ITS A SKATER NATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:coolcowboy:

I think you are a hypocrite and "instigator" is very fitting under your user name. And why talk about it now since in your words "the general internet public won't know the answer". BTW, obviously the windshield is part of the canopy. sheeesh....

Participant speaks

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/lo...victim-speaks/

looking at the pic i think its a little more than rain.
But yes, it should definitely be in one piece after that "little" incident.

I spent several years as an aircraft mechanic at MIA, and worked flightline damage repairs daily, and 3 or 4 direct runway crashes, I never saw a windscreen that *tore* away like these did, we did have heavy hail and bird damage, but not a *tear* situation...

I have seen bird's enter helicopter cockpits at low velocity though...

I guess my basic simple question is > does the current offshore sanction bodies have a windscreen spec for thickness/composition/material for open or enclosed cockpits?

I know UIM does. (9.5mm for a side by side canopy.) But key west wsnt a APBA-UIM race?

"Take your question direct to Skater. The general internet public won't know the answer."

The Stuffs are plus violent rollovers are high G impacts up to 25G was measured for example at Casiraghis crash.

Yes they are somewhat common. Bobby Saccenti had one for example in the Apache cat back in the day.
Do not recall the death causes of Mark Lavin and Stefano Casiraghi but wouldn' t count it out.

Theres little risk in a Hans getting stuck when evacuating IMO. It hasn't been a risk in racecars either where fire is always a threat. Once you get used to wearing it you do not even notice it racing.

Getting offtopic.
 

Reply moved here

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ml#post3550087

There are many organisations and there fore many specs:
Here are a few:

WPPA Class 1 and X-cat: Polycarbonate min 12 mm
UIM 3C: Polycarbonate or similar, tandem min 7.9 mm side-by-side min 9.5 mm
LUCAS OIL DRAG BOAT RACING SERIES: Polycarbonate min 0.5" before hot forming

Request to all..lets take the tech stuff to appropriate thread...

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...struction.html

Boat racers ain't the general internet public...WE THINK!

SO U ARE !!!!!

Excuse my possible ignorance here as I am not a plastics expert. Why are they not using Lexan on the canopy windows instead of polycarbonate?? There must be some reason I am unaware of?

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Lexan IS polycarbonate.

Told you I wasn't a plastics expert. I learn something new almost every day!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar:grinser010:

[QUOTE=MikeyFIN;3550130]The Stuffs are plus violent rollovers are high G impacts up to 25G was measured for example at Casiraghis crash.

Yes they are somewhat common. Bobby Saccenti had one for example in the Apache cat back in the day.
Do not recall the death causes of Mark Lavin and Stefano Casiraghi but wouldn' t count it out.QUOTE]

Probably doesn't matter much but I recall Casiraghi's cat the old KAPPA as a stand-up boat not a sit down. The cockpit had a sling in it where you rested your rear end and kind of swung in it with feet on the ground. If it was rough you could use that sling and stand behind it so when you stood your legs couldn't kick out front. Don't know for a fact but recall talk that was how he was in the boat so when it stuffed it could not get thrown out easily, kind of folded around the sling where as the co-pilot was thrown out of the boat - again 20 years ago?

I know! That quote about the "general internet public" was directly from the person who posted the question. He told me to "call Peter at Skater" because the "general internet public won't know"! lol :)

Thanks again for the pics and for not watermarking them.
I'm going to print the whole sequence on 8x10 photo paper as soon as I get more ink. :)

The new Fury windscreen uses laminated stretched acrylic provided by Triumph Aerospace, this transparency is capable of withstanding 500mph bird strike as compared to 350 mph for polycarbonate

lexan is, as i recall, GE's trade name for their polycarbonate plastic...just like pepsi is a trade name for cola...

Are canopies multi-layered like bullet proof glass or car windshields so it can absorb impact or of if/when the break they don't shatter?

Yup I use macralon in my race cars, just another trade name

Either way I think the general publics acknowledgement of safety is a good thing

If it helps save someones life and you never know whos knowledge from work experience in another field may help contribute to the next great safety innovation

Open dialog is a good thing as long as its respectful

Just my opinion

Guess Peter is occuopied with more important things... and This is a Warpaint/ Apache thread!:drink:

Hans should be mandatory whenever helmets are required.
I recently crashed my car at 182 mph-guardrail hit, thankfully the hans did its job no neck injuries. There was fire in the car also I had no problem getting out with the added hardware.

I've been reading this post since the crash.....their are some good points and their are a lot of NO KNOWLEGE opinions.

1. Our canopy is multi-laminated, this design would not work with a roll bar.....the roll bar would make the canopy to rigid (like glass). It was made to flex.

2. The canopy flexed during the high speed impact and then eventually broke....the point is, it did take the initial impact,
THAT IS WHAT SAVED OUR LIVES.
Most people have no idea of the amount of pressure water has during a 115mph stuff

3. Could safety be improved? THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM FOR SAFETY IMPROVEMENT.

4. Will we learn from this accident? We'd be idiots not to build a better mouse trap here.

5. I was in the boat....DANNY and I LIVED, without to much injury......The boat and canopy did their job, for this type of accident.

END OF STORY

MikeyFIN...thanks for the backup

I am glad you guys are okay. Have a great Thanksgiving

Took nikonmiami's pictures and made a gif of the accident, glad they are ok.

http://limestonedev.com/tmp/WP2.gif

GL.....it's Thanksgiving. Couldn't just one frame be that boob shot you always post? Be a giver okay? :)

Don't know what your talking about... Say goodbye to my friend leaving Norty however...

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/r...2/ewasonne.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e87HIlOIYFA

This link was posted on another thread here, think more than likely this shows how the Warpaint canopy might have failed. I doubt the Warpaint canopy it is designed to flex this much which lead to it's failure when it is impacted as it was in the stuff...this shows that the Warpaint canopy needs to be re-enforced. I don't intend to upset anyone here, and I am happy and relieved that the crew Bob and Danny were not seriously hurt but that might have been all down to luck. We really need to get serious about our safety.

With the design of your canopy, would a roll cage which was designed to "limit" the flexability of the canopy be feasable? In otherwords, There would be an airgap, or slamm crush structure, between the canopy, and the cage. After initial deformation of the canopy, the cage would then strategically support the canopy to reduce further deformation.
As you said, there is always room for improvement in safety. Just as these boats are safer than they were ten years ago, they will continue to become safer in the future.


Darrell.

Glad you guys survived! I raced with Bob Morgan in 1997 98 99. I was the driver. Haven't really said much about this bad year in Key West because it is what it is and i'm really upset about what happened. Bobs son and I stuffed the old 4 engine 46 Skater in Miami at 110 mph hour so I kind of know what you guys went through. Theres a small group of people working together to make the boats safer. Some manufactures listen better then others. Boats will alway fail at some point but as you know theres always room for improvement on most boats out there. If you want to bounce any ideas around on your rebuild I would be happy to share ideas on designs that work better. Good luck on a full recovery!!

Can you tell us anything more about this?

Take a good look at Mystics and Doug Wrights Newer boats as well as the Citron. I build the thicker laminated WS for these boats as well as discuss installation methods using extra thick inner flanges with outer retainers to help hold the WS in place instead of blowing out. We also reduced size of exposed WS to help reduce the amount of energy it has to over come when the boat stuffs or rolls. These designs will still fail at some point but will hang in there much better then whats out there. I build and install aerospace windshield for a living and raced for 5 years in the 90s. Two years in a 28 skater and three in Bobs 46 Skaters. By the way. I build thicker laminated windows for Skater on the newer boats but the only one I would be happy with is the way Talking Trash modified theirs by adding the outer retainer and reducing the amount of exposed window area. MTI has done a great job on some of their latest boat as well. I'm no billy Bad azz ruler of the world or anything but just doing some commonsense stuff to make the top of the boat as strong as the bottom in case you crash.

i was also on the sebago on sunday,i saw him shooting these pictures,i am amazed how anyone could get this quality with 6 foot seas,the seabago was rocking,it was almost imposible to walk on it,nikonmiami,u are my hero.

Way to go Jim, to me thats the common sense way to approach it. I think one of the things that is overlooked by the masses is the sheer force of water and the intrusion factor is so much different that air. a canopy or a windshiled in air does have to remain intact to take a strike, air not being a solid will take the path of least resistance. water as a solid and being pressurized from a flip or a stuff with make its own path, generally at the weakest point, think of a water jet that is used to cut steel.
Another consideration is that in the event of a flip, the water displaces everything, so on top of the carnage from the impact you have water displacing all the air and drivers possibly unconscious from the impact and water coming in from all around, you just took a horrible situation and made it worse. Is full time air now going to be mandatory? one of the safety checks for each team should be a working oxygen system, no worky, no racey...

What it really comes down to is the two guys getting in the boat and what their willing to risk. All the rules in the world won't save lives in every situation. Nothing keeps guys from wearing full time air now. We used to have full size tanks in big thunder in 1998 although the masks we wore wouldnt work if we were past out. You would need to wear a sealed helmet with a boot around your neck like the drag boat guys to work when your passed out. Nothing really stops anybody from wearing those now but I think it would be going over board to make it mandatory. I do however think if your going to run in a canopy boat there should be some new canopy requirements. Something as simple as adding a stronger and wider inner retainer and adding a outer bra and or retainer reducing the exposed windshield area to existing boats like Talking Trash did on their Skater. A thicker window would be nice as well but retainers would help the existing windows hold up better as a start and keep referb costs down for teams on a tight budget. This would save lives. But you still could die. Its racing!! I'm not here for a debate but just trying to help. I wish everybody the best! Good luck!

http://th214.photobucket.com/albums/..._thumbs_up.gif
I guess they are polycarbonate wind screens? How thick are they?