Originally Posted by 737jetmech (Post 3591004)

Been running them on my engines for almost 10 years with no issues . Great design ... as you stated keep water in them they will last .

Originally Posted by Raylar (Post 3590718)

Pete:

Glad to hear about your possible new marine header product line. Just some thoughts and suggestions.

Please try and keep a few things in mind as you continue into designs and product of this class.

1. Headers should be headers and not just manifolds.The primary reason most performance boaters buy engines with true headers or add headers to their engines is to increase power. On normally aspirated engines the design and actual function of the header should produce measurable power and torque over a stock manifold or aftermarket manifold system. There is a science to actual runner shape, size and length and a true header should also have a carefully designed merge collector and transition into the tips to extract maximum efficiency from the engine. Todays performance boaters are very savy about performance gains and so you should have a header that produces results that will be verifiable in use and in the boat! There are actually only a small few marine headers that are excellent efficient designs!
2. There should also always be two distinct types of headers for marine performance engines, one long tube for N/A engines and another design specifically for supercharged and turbo charged engines the header requirement will be different especially how each engine type is trying to make maximum power.
3. Asthetics or "bling" in marine performance boats is HUGE, don't let anybody try to convince you its not that important!
Make sure the great looks are there as an aspect of your product and its design.
4. Try to keep the old saying KISS in mind. Keep the product as simple as possible and "Never Make a Product More Complicated than It Needs To Be to Work Well" !!
Keep the finished product easy to install as possible and easy to work on and service after install. Design in a clean finished appearance and tightly packaged as reasonable to keep space and clearance issues at a minimum.
5. Try to design and engineer from a market supported price point backwards to your final design and product. Its really not smart to design and then have to produce a product that is overpriced for its real market to a point where only a few users will purchase it.

I hope these ideas will help in your efforts. If I can be of help, let me know, I think I have a pretty good understanding of the marine exhaust connundrum and a lot of expierence into aspects of header design and performance.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Originally Posted by Interceptor (Post 3591153)

Paradox,
Do you have any idea of the costs to bring a reliable 10 year warranty product to the consumer ? You should design and test each application to obtain RAM data. You will need significant resources i.e. boats, engines, fuel, maintenance and many hours of testing.

Originally Posted by madhatter42 (Post 3591200)

Considering I just spent 10k + to redo my headers/tails, and the cost of a motor if they leak severely....I'd be very interested...

Originally Posted by offshoredrillin (Post 3590954)

pot meet kettle...:evilb:

Originally Posted by CDN 1 (Post 3591269)

These are stated to have another 15yrs of Use, Tested ,,, left:eek:
Could use More styling But cover alot of Small Block apps.

E Bay #150734422685

Originally Posted by CDN 1 (Post 3591269)

These are stated to have another 15yrs of Use, Tested ,,, left:eek:
Could use More styling But cover alot of Small Block apps.

E Bay #150734422685

Originally Posted by letterrip (Post 3601854)

KE's = Peace of Mind....!

8 seasons & never an issue.....!

Originally Posted by letterrip (Post 3601854)

KE's = Peace of Mind....!

8 seasons & never an issue.....!

Originally Posted by scarab63 (Post 3601861)

Thats what I was thinking when I read paradox first post....
No bling, no frills, heavy, reliable = ke cast manifold / headers


10 yr warranty......how could anybody say no to that? Does this include salt apps?
no hoops to jump thru? Heres my old ones, send me new ones!! if so that'd be worth it to me

Originally Posted by 4bus (Post 3601916)

The KE are mentioned a lot in this thread, so I hit the link given earlier in this discussion....the headers are gone :angry-smiley-038:

Missing on this link

http://www.keitheickert.com/c-9-exhaust-systems.aspx

Originally Posted by mr3dman (Post 3601942)

Personally, i've always wondered why the exhaust is water cooled at all. Materials are around that can keep the heat in check and are used all the time. Turbines use them, motorcycle mufflers, etc. Why use a water jacket at all when you can use a dry header. I imagine a cmi, or other stainless header with a heat barrier as the water jacket with composite cover for the hot spots like at the head or joints. Has something like this been tried? The through hull could even be made to act as a water dump to cool the exhaust and pipe as it exits the boat while capping it from going upstream. Am I off my rocker in looney land?

Originally Posted by 4bus (Post 3602059)

Lot's of reasons. Our engines run very high EGT's all day long....all day. Drive your truck down the road at 4 grand while towing 20,000lbs with near flat tires, after 20 mins tell me if anything smells like it is burning. Do that all day every weekend

Most of our engines get the air from the bilge area, more heat, less power.

Exhaust would not be pretty for long running at 1200 degress all day, and will not last long if they got wet or salt on them at the temp. Imagine this under your hatch
http://www.fordification.com/myproje...set2_68-05.jpg

Air flow in the bilge, everything else has the advantage of some kind of air in/ air out cooling...such as the grill on your car, the cool air is deflected in (sometimes underneath no grill) and exits behind the engine.....how would you do this on a boat?

The cooling water is free, and cool. We all use it for a/c and generators. If this same cool free water was available on the road, you would see different technogly in cars. Snowmobiles use free snow and free ice cold air to cool their engines and exhaust.

Originally Posted by mr3dman (Post 3602286)

I hear you loud and clear but if the heat is the problem then turbo's wouldn't work in a marine environment. Same goes for turbiines. I really believe it is possible with the technology we have today, it just hasn't been tried yet. With a thermal cover on a turbo you can touch it by hand, even after a hard pull.

Originally Posted by PARADOX (Post 3602467)

A few quick answer to some of the posts.
The design/concept is not AIR cooled. That was just an example.
After the Miami show and once I further discussed this with "experts" I will provide more info.
The warranty is posible, since there is no possible mixing of exhaust and coolant.
Water, (fresh or salt, or what ever the way I get rid of the heat. :) ) can't get into the exhaust tubes, thus the engines are safe. That's all for now, more to come at a later date.
Thanks for the comments and interests.
P

Originally Posted by 4bus (Post 3603002)

I'm all for it, but I agree with the statements about "bling" It is so important in this industry......unless you chase the cruiser market?

Make it better and make it look cool, you will have a winner!

IMO if merc doesn't make the 1350 prettier, they will lose
more market share to the other big guns.

Originally Posted by Mastercraft240 (Post 3603012)

I disagree..... I think you're finding more new boats using simplicity as their bling factor. Also, I'd rather have a "less blinged" out motor that ran everyday than a motor that spend more time in the shop then in the water. For example, the SVX40's OL and the new SV43.

Originally Posted by 4bus (Post 3603035)

Maybe that is the case, truth is I will never be in the NEW boat market, so it could shift and I wouldn't know :lolhit:

However, the biggest boat show in the US....the Miami boat show.....you're telling me everything will have a plain wrapper this year? lol

A 525EFI might look plain to us, but to the majority of boaters it has BLING! The 1350 looks like a 496ho.

Lot's of big money boaters out there that LOVE to open their hatches. Won't make much sense in the engines have plain plastic shrouds, and matt finish blocky exhaust

Originally Posted by 4bus (Post 3603002)

I'm all for it, but I agree with the statements about "bling" It is so important in this industry......unless you chase the cruiser market?

Make it better and make it look cool, you will have a winner!

IMO if merc doesn't make the 1350 prettier, they will lose
more market share to the other big guns.

Originally Posted by Steve 1 (Post 3603112)

The last I checked Mercury has a 4 month backorder on those 1350's Get used to them ,that is the future.

Originally Posted by pqjack (Post 3606506)

are you telling me my 496 looks like a 1350??
yessssssssss...that's worth 50hp

Originally Posted by 43sv (Post 3609178)

I have tested cmi big tube against stainless gen 3 5inch manifolds and they made 8hp more on a 1100 hp blower motor. No reason to deal with the inherent cmi problems, we all know how well they stand behind there products. You can deal with looks or leaks.

Originally Posted by Coolerman (Post 3590974)

Thanks Chris. Yes, my father designed and built them for 10yrs, and then sold it to Keith.

The first test set we built is over 20yrs old and has a god knows how many hours on it (the set is still in use today). The ones on our boat our 12yrs old. RmpRam had a set that he ran for over 10yrs I believe. A select few did manage to melt them, but it would have helped if they would have ran water through them or rigged their boat with something other than swimming pool hose :picard1: