Notices

509's VS 540's

Old 07-15-2014, 10:34 PM
  #31  
SB
Registered
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: On A Dirt Floor
Posts: 13,484
Received 3,064 Likes on 1,375 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by onesickpantera
Engines don't make hp, they make torque.
That , we could argue, But I don't want to. LOL. + You could really defend either position.

My position is since torque has no time element, an engine makes no force/power/ what have you at 0 rpm. RPM is the element that adds time. Time is what we need to figure work done. Work done = HP.

LOL.

Schit, I could argue with myself over that one. He, he.
SB is offline  
Old 07-15-2014, 10:41 PM
  #32  
SB
Registered
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: On A Dirt Floor
Posts: 13,484
Received 3,064 Likes on 1,375 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ratman
when you add a 1/2 inch of stroke your engine combination it has so much more balls EVERYWHERE , i dont care what kind of heads your running. you can get some reasonably price crank and rod kits for a lot less than a set of killer heads, id take the stroke increase anyday in a boat.
But with a very limited intake manifold or what have you, you will end up with same hp but at a lower rpm. This is not always what someone wants.

In the case of an engine with a decent intake and throttle valve (carburetor) like a HP500, I agree, I'll take a 540.

In the case of the choking 502MPI intake and throttle valve (throttle body), I'll save my $ and keep the 502.
SB is offline  
Old 07-15-2014, 10:48 PM
  #33  
Registered
iTrader: (1)
 
onesickpantera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,388
Received 21 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SB
That , we could argue, But I don't want to. LOL. + You could really defend either position.

My position is since torque has no time element, an engine makes no force/power/ what have you at 0 rpm. RPM is the element that adds time. Time is what we need to figure work done. Work done = HP.

LOL.

Schit, I could argue with myself over that one. He, he.
I always looked at it as engines make power. That power is measured on a dyno and we get torque value. From that we use math to get hp.

I was being somewhat of a smart azz (again) when I made that statement.
onesickpantera is offline  
Old 07-15-2014, 10:53 PM
  #34  
SB
Registered
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: On A Dirt Floor
Posts: 13,484
Received 3,064 Likes on 1,375 Posts
Default

I'm with you.
SB is offline  
Old 07-15-2014, 10:53 PM
  #35  
Gold Member
Gold Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Full Force's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Olmsted Falls,Ohio Marblehead,Oh
Posts: 11,633
Likes: 0
Received 201 Likes on 129 Posts
Default

I have 547CI 660TQ and 600hp .... very strong engines, push the heavy 35 Cig to 73.5 so far... the throttle response is great with the TQ where it is.... I say go 540 and do everything needed to make them right, spend the money and do it once....mine are very conservative for reliability...
Full Force is offline  
Old 07-15-2014, 10:54 PM
  #36  
SB
Registered
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: On A Dirt Floor
Posts: 13,484
Received 3,064 Likes on 1,375 Posts
Default

Engines have variable displacements when running.

How ?

RPM.

Wanna change the displacement while it's running - change the rpm.

That's getting the topic heavy huh ? LOL.

Last edited by SB; 07-15-2014 at 10:58 PM.
SB is offline  
Old 07-15-2014, 11:18 PM
  #37  
Registered
VIP Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CapeComa,FL
Posts: 1,391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Nope. Sorry...not trying to start a big @&$), but come on.....

Bore x stroke -/+ combustion chamber x amount of cylinders = displacement. The ONLY thing that changes this is a rod through the block......but then, you lose hp, torque and use ability.

For what it's worth....I have a pair of 5 hour Merlin 540's for sale....with blowers.....selling to finance my lawsuit against TowBoatUS
commandersander is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 09:33 AM
  #38  
SB
Registered
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: On A Dirt Floor
Posts: 13,484
Received 3,064 Likes on 1,375 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by commandersander
Nope. Sorry...not trying to start a big @&$), but come on.....

Bore x stroke -/+ combustion chamber x amount of cylinders = displacement. The ONLY thing that changes this is a rod through the block......but then, you lose hp, torque and use ability.
LOL.
Yes, when measure not running that's how you measure displacement. Bore and stroke. Not combustion chamber.

When running, what an engine displaces is based on physical cid, rpm, and volumetric effeciency.

So, say we have a 502 cid engine and for easy math we'll say 100% volumetric effeciency. IE: cylinders get completely full.

502 cid
4000rpm = 1,003,968 cubic inches per minute
5000rpm = 1,254,528
5500rpm = 1,380,672

So...to compare different cid engines (again leaving 100% Volumetric effeciency for easy math)
Note: below #'s very slightly rounded.

A 540cid at 5500 rpm = 1,484,352 cubic inches per minute
A 502cid at 5915 rpm = same as above
A 454cid at 6540 rpm = same as above
A 400cid at 7422 rpm = same as above
A 383 cid at 7752 rpm = same as above
A 350 cid at 8482 rpm = same as above

This is a great way to look at engines and give more insight on what has to be done to try to produce the power you are looking for when starting to decide what cid's one should be looking to build.

Remember, an engine is an air pump. It moves nothing when not running.
SB is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 10:15 AM
  #39  
Registered
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Taunton Ma
Posts: 8,527
Received 697 Likes on 341 Posts
Default

Nice work sb, puts things in perspective easily. My 460" engines make 600ish hp, but at 61-6200 rpm. I think I'm going to run into a prop issue trying to get them there, where as if I had 540's or 572's making 6-650 hp at 52-5400 rpm it would be a little easier to setup.
Unlimited jd is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 10:34 AM
  #40  
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: rock Island wa
Posts: 1,953
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SB
LOL.
Yes, when measure not running that's how you measure displacement. Bore and stroke. Not combustion chamber.

When running, what an engine displaces is based on physical cid, rpm, and volumetric effeciency.

So, say we have a 502 cid engine and for easy math we'll say 100% volumetric effeciency. IE: cylinders get completely full.

502 cid
4000rpm = 1,003,968 cubic inches per minute
5000rpm = 1,254,528
5500rpm = 1,380,672

So...to compare different cid engines (again leaving 100% Volumetric effeciency for easy math)
Note: below #'s very slightly rounded.

A 540cid at 5500 rpm = 1,484,352 cubic inches per minute
A 502cid at 5915 rpm = same as above
A 454cid at 6540 rpm = same as above
A 400cid at 7422 rpm = same as above
A 383 cid at 7752 rpm = same as above
A 350 cid at 8482 rpm = same as above

This is a great way to look at engines and give more insight on what has to be done to try to produce the power you are looking for when starting to decide what cid's one should be looking to build.

Remember, an engine is an air pump. It moves nothing when not running.
And there's the key to your point, you have to have efficient supply of air
buck35 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.