Maritime Law - is this true?
 

A neighbor comes by today says he has rented out a lobster boat from down in the creek. Him and two buddies are going to go start towing boats they find stuck in the marshes etc tomorrow and have their eye on one 42'er to start with and put them in a secured waterfront location they have with a gaurd so they are not abandoned technically.

They claim after 3 days adrift they are fair game or salvage by maritime law??? Now, how would that apply to inland-waterways and the fact that NJ is under a State of Emergency?

To me besides being wrong on soooo many counts it would almost seem like insurance fraud where your boat breaks loose, I don't claim for 3 days someone grabs it on the otherside of the river and I file insurance that my boat is stolen, missing???

Their plan of course fix them up and sell them...

Like I said, to me wrong on many fronts but what is the law?

Sounds like opportunism at its finest.

i find it totally wrong .where is there morals ? people in nj got it bad enough why add to their pain . i know if a guy grabbed my boat id be all over him

even if it were true theyd probably be dead soon with that plan haha

He might get shot.

Scum bags better have researched the law...even if it legal they still will have a **** load of lawsuits.
Hope one of the is a lawyer becase they're going to spend some cash to figh them.
Do it for free or a arranged price w/ the owner

Tell your neighbor he's a fukkin peckerhead.
He's gonna "salvage" or steal the wrong guys boat & end up in a bad way!!!
People react differently to stress!!!! I bet a good lawyer could get someone off manslaughter charges for post traumatic stress ..... Tell him to think about that & leave the salvage to the pros.

Look I agree with everyone's comments, it's wrong but he says it's legal, I don't see how BUT neither is a lawyer except for what they find on Google - LOL!

I certainly hope it's not legal. People are under tremendous pressure, and it will not be well received. I'm against it completely.

Im sure once they file for a title of some sort, they will have to notify any lien holders, and those folks are gonna pony up the tow/storage fee to recover it.

now if the city, county or state allows them, or somehow empowers them to clear the carnage, that would be a whole different story.

It is legal. I had a friend who ran a crewboat an a ship lost propulsion.
He towed the ship away from drifting into a platform until a tug could arrive to take it to port. His company claimed salvage rights and the shipping company had to buy the ship back from them.

If you get stuck aground or something along those lines be careful who hooks to you as the potential for salvage rights exists.

Legal looting?

He's back? Following the Hurricanes I presume. Foul individual.

My brother has a 26 Sundancer in Conn that he wasn't able to get hauled in time to beat the storm so he added lines and fenders and hoped for the best. I called him next day and he'd already been to the boat with waders on, chainsaw on shoulder and 870 pump gun in hand. Apparently when these storms rip the boats loose guys take advantage and start stripping the boats. He was expecting to have to cut his way into get to his boat and shoot his way out if necessary. No need...docks and lines held.

well let me say this legal or not !! .i lose my house to sandy .no power. no heat .no food .no car but the boat floats into the marsh and some scumbag grabs and puts claim to it !! and i see my boat there . were gonna have a big problem !!! legal or not i think theres gotta be a little leeway here for people just going thru a major trajedy

I didn't say it was right. I'm just warnin people to be careful. Salvage is huge business in maritime industry.

I'm pretty sure you would need to be in international waters for any maritime law to be in effect. In US water ways US laws would prevail.

Pure salvage
In pure salvage (also called "merit salvage"), there is no contract between the owner of the goods and the salvor. The relationship is one which is implied by law. The salvor of property under pure salvage must bring his claim for salvage in a court which has jurisdiction, and this will award salvage based upon the "merit" of the service and the value of the salvaged property.
Pure salvage claims are divided into "high-order" and "low-order" salvage. In high-order salvage, the salvor exposes himself and his crew to the risk of injury and loss or damage to his equipment in order to salvage the property that is in peril. Examples of high-order salvage are boarding a sinking ship in heavy weather, boarding a ship which is on fire, raising a ship, plane, or other sunken property, or towing a ship which is in the surf away from the shore. Low-order salvage occurs where the salvor is exposed to little or no personal risk. Examples of low-order salvage include towing another vessel in calm seas, supplying a vessel with fuel, or pulling a vessel off a sand bar. Salvors performing high order salvage receive substantially greater salvage award than those performing low order salvage.
In order for a claim to be awarded three requirements must be met: The property must be in peril, the services must be rendered voluntarily (no duty to act), and finally the salvage must be successful in whole or in part.
There are several factors that would be considered by a court in establishing the amount of the salvor’s award. Some of these include the difficulty of the operation, the risk involved to the salvor, the value of the property saved, the degree of danger to which the property was exposed, and the potential environmental impacts. It would be a rare case in which the salvage award would be greater than 50 percent of the value of the property salvaged. More commonly, salvage awards amount to 10 percent to 25 percent of the value of the property.
Private boat owners, to protect themselves from salvage laws in the event of a rescue, would be wise to clarify with their rescuer if the operation is to be considered salvage, or simply assistance towing. If this is not done, the boat owner may be shocked to discover that the rescuer may be eligible for a substantial salvage award, and a lien may be placed on the vessel if it is not paid.

We can only hope. Phucking scumbags!

Salvage law
 

Google is great (...and I'm sure everything on Al Gore's Internet is fact).

"It" says there are 2 types of salvage. "Pure Salvage" and "Contract Salvage".

“Pure Salvage” is when there is no preexisting agreement between the parties, and there must be a marine peril placing the boat in danger (etc...)

“Contract Salvage”, the salvor acts to save property after entering into an agreement to use “best endeavors” to do so.

Based on what I read, there is no ownership at all. There are salvage awards due. Here's the description:

"Because the circumstances of each salvage case are unique, no specific rule for determining the amount of the award can be given. Salvage awards based on a percentage of the salved vessel’s value should be adjusted so that the salvor is fairly compensated without undue hardship to the vessel owner. It would be a rare case in which the salvage award would be greater than 40 percent of the value of the vessel. More commonly, salvage awards amount to 5 to 25% of the value of the vessel and property salvaged. However, courts recognize that generous salvage awards should be allowed when the value of the salved property justifies an award, to “compensate salvors for services that are frequently performed where the property is so small that adequate remuneration cannot be given without a hardship to the owner.” The Neto, 15 F. 819 (S.D. Fla. 1883)."

SOURCE: http://www.braislaw.com/files/salvage.pdf

So, if I understand what is being said in regards to salvage. A boat breaks loose and drifts across the bay and is beached, the boat was worth $100 before it drifted away. I lay claim and salvage it, the boat is damaged though. I now turn around and sell the vessel for $50. I get to keep say $12.50 of the $50 I sold it for and the vessel owner gets $37.50 - is that how it works or am I not following what happens? I have no idea about things like this so it is interesting, personally I would look forward to seeing these guys getting arrested for trying this!

I think what is being said is that the boat is not being sold but held until the owner ponies up the dough to the salvage company for doing a "service".

Ok, so held for "services rendered", so if in essense the owner does not want to pay for the salvage you can keep the boat but need to go to a court to get a title to be able to sell it - correct?

I most certainly suggest you find a new set of friends. :poopoo:

No idea on this part but I'd imagine if you don't pay salvage you can't claim a loss with insurance?

A few years ago there was a yacht that was grounded in a marine sanctuary on the gulf side of Key West during a hurricane . The owner had to keep a crew on for about two years before it could be removed. I was told that it could be salvaged if he did not keep the crew on board. What made it worse was that it had to float out on it's own because it was in a marine sanctuary. Who ever said that pirates dont exist today.

The real pirates are those in the suits.
States have some extra laws for their waters, but navigable waters may be open for some scam like this.

You mean sea tow didnt beat them to the punch????

are there any lawyers that are willing to answer this question? Smarty?!

time for someone to become a vigilante and shoot at will,

That's funny!

I guess this is like you abandon a car, the twon calls a towing company and tows it, you pay the bill or loose it at some point. I just didn't think a private individual on inland NJ waterways could go do this without the Marine Police, State Police someone giving them their blessing to clear up the debris - does not seem right

Ive heard of local stories about getting towed where the tow company would ask the people on board if they would like to get off the boat and get a ride to the harbor.. as soon as they step off the boat the company then claims salvage and tows it to their facility. then gives them a $8K bill.

NEVER get off your boat !!

I'd maybe make a call to the coast guard, marine police and local police and let them know what your neighbor's new business plan includes. Maybe they can have a little chat with him, as they'll see the potential chaos that they will not want to deal with.

Rumor has it 10% of value is the most they can get????

This book here is an interesting read about a monumental salvage case of a fuel cell for the space shuttle.

http://www.amazon.com/Peril-Decision.../dp/1592285945

158 ft, 16mm dollar sail boat:
http://terryorisms.com/2007/05/09/me...till-marooned/

that must have been a really nice 26 Searay.....:party-smiley-004:

With all the carnage up there you think the thieves would target the 55 Searay with all the electronics/flatscreen tv's etc. Heck in Maryland they are stealing drives off boats in good times but I noticed they haven't resorted to stealing Bravo 3's off Searays yet.

Yeah but sometimes the people in need of a tow get to drive the TowBoat!
Boynton Beach TowboatUS Capt. Timothy R. Pooler was charged with drunken boating after rescuing two boaters and towing their boat around in circles for several hours.


Last week, Pooler was dispatched to rescue two men in a disabled boat 25 miles off Delray Beach, Fla., according to a report in the Orlando Sentinel.

But according to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, Pooler, 63, arrived drunk four hours after being dispatched and for several hours towed the disabled boat in circles.

Eventually he asked the men, Lionel Casey and Lewis Dames of Fort Lauderdale, to drive his towboat, which then ran out of fuel. Casey and Dames took fuel from their boat, which regained power after the engine had cooled sufficiently.

About 12 hours after their initial breakdown a second towboat delivered the men to shore — in Jupiter, 30 miles north of their departure point.

Click here for the full article.

How awesome would it be if the guys calling for assistance claimed salvage rights on the tow boat!!!
Was this "capt" the same retard that dragged commandersanders boat off the beach & sunk it? I remember somebody sayin that capt was a wineo too!!!!

I don't buy some of these stories. From what I have read an abandoned vessel is:

"One which was left by its crew without intention to return and without hope of recovery."

Hopping on a towboat for a few minutes would not meet the definition of abandoned.

For the original post, I would think that if it went to court a judge would also see a boat that was loose 3 days after a major storm as not abandoned, but I could be wrong. And it wouldn't stop people from trying and costing you money in legal fees.

In Missouri we secure the boat, find the owner and get the boat back to them. Cost of service is a cocktail.