Why are high performance boats so expensive!
12-26-2012, 06:53 PM
#121
Registered
I have been in the Automotive Research and Development for one of the big three for the past 6 years, and I must say most of you guys are way off. If you even knew what some of these motors go through in development you would be absolutely astonished. I think most of the public and forums are completely ignorant on most of these practices, and the big three keeps most of these tests under high security because in reality no one really needs to know what we do.
But for some to throw out "Ideas" that they have as to why a marine engine is better is just assaine. My best guess for why Marine engines are more expensive isn't exactly for R&D, actually quite opposite. These engines are built with the best of parts so they don't break while OEM engines are built cheap then tested to verify they will withstand the torture that many people subject them to.
One more instance you must look at is just in engines, most engines do not go bad or wear out bad until around 200k, and within that cycle it is mostly the parts around that fail.
Just something to think about, and I could go further and tell some stories of what some of these engines are subjected to, in which as I have already said, most would be amazed to say the least.
But for some to throw out "Ideas" that they have as to why a marine engine is better is just assaine. My best guess for why Marine engines are more expensive isn't exactly for R&D, actually quite opposite. These engines are built with the best of parts so they don't break while OEM engines are built cheap then tested to verify they will withstand the torture that many people subject them to.
One more instance you must look at is just in engines, most engines do not go bad or wear out bad until around 200k, and within that cycle it is mostly the parts around that fail.
Just something to think about, and I could go further and tell some stories of what some of these engines are subjected to, in which as I have already said, most would be amazed to say the least.
If you are so informed with auto research then you should be fair enough to marine also. While a car will never see the detonation loads a boat always does the demands are not equal, thus, the engines are not equal.
As you said, "OEM engines are built cheap". Why is that? Of course it is because the analysts cut costs to max the bottom line so engineers have less budget to work with. Testing answers the eternal criticism of expense of "over engineering" against longevity for warranty claims sake. Everyone who builds, tests. Some think their tests are the best. The end user is the determining factor. Mercury has had a rash of claims on that premise even after all their testing.
To be fair in both worlds there are the budget line models and then the high end models. The budget line stuff in marine might compare with auto more so because those engines are built with cheap materials, just like the budget auto's. As I said before, the "performance" marine engines are more comparable with the highest end product that auto makes in their own performance flavor and bragging rites and you know those aren't cheap built either.
12-26-2012, 06:59 PM
#122
Registered
Lets also be certain to mention a common lake boat is not built on an LS1, LS6 or any best of the best comparisons.
Most marine engines blowing XR drives off are doing just that, running WOT with the throttles pinned to the dash. Many marine engines spend their life at WOT. I really wonder how you could say marine engines don't see the same level.
12-26-2012, 07:16 PM
#123
Gold Member
Gold MemberThread Starter
Lets also be certain to mention a common lake boat is not built on an LS1, LS6 or any best of the best comparisons.
Most marine engines blowing XR drives off are doing just that, running WOT with the throttles pinned to the dash. Many marine engines spend their life at WOT. I really wonder how you could say marine engines don't see the same level.
Most marine engines blowing XR drives off are doing just that, running WOT with the throttles pinned to the dash. Many marine engines spend their life at WOT. I really wonder how you could say marine engines don't see the same level.
Your knowledge on motors is AWSEOME ! So this is not me questiong you, just asking.
Rick
12-26-2012, 07:36 PM
#124
Registered
I am not educated enough to toss a coin in this pot, however, When you say marine engines live there lives at " WOT " are speaking of offshore racing, or all? My boat rarely sees WOT, I live around 45 - 50, just visit WOT now and again...
Your knowledge on motors is AWSEOME ! So this is not me questiong you, just asking.
Rick
Your knowledge on motors is AWSEOME ! So this is not me questiong you, just asking.
Rick
If one does the WOT thing in a car the driving award that follows can be a problem for insurance, job, wallet etc. In a boat there is nothing to prevent the operator from doing the WOT thing. Especially in a fun run, poker run, hot boat hang outs so that is where the engine is going to get wrung out. Look at a bass tournament shoot out and other water events that are not specifically sanctioned events but the boats are run to the max and still some are blowing on the back of the windshield to get just one more mph out of it.
The smaller the boat engine is the harder it is going to get run because the human tendancy is always, just a little more. My first boat spent a great deal of it's life at WOT because I was trying to keep up with bigger stuff. The little GMC four banger was a trooper too.
But racing of course and performance boating especially will see WOT on a regular basis and some a great deal. Just let a buddy try to pass you and it is throttles on the dash. My career has surrounded internal combustion of most every type; gas, diesel, natural gas, propane, alternates, blended and elect installations. I am certified, certifiable too
, in most all of these engine types and control systems and have been trained by all of the big three in their engine technologies. I love the technology and it just fuels me more in learning and the challenges that go with it. One thing has changed with me though. When I am cut, as one interviewer called it, I don't bleed oil......I bleed water. I started off in the auto side and now I am immersed in my hobby; boats. All this is not to brag it is an expectation of my performance in my work. I'm sure you are well versed in your career and could teach me things that are common to you.
12-26-2012, 07:53 PM
#125
Gold Member
Gold MemberThread Starter
If one does the WOT thing in a car the driving award that follows can be a problem for insurance, job, wallet etc. In a boat there is nothing to prevent the operator from doing the WOT thing. Especially in a fun run, poker run, hot boat hang outs so that is where the engine is going to get wrung out. Look at a bass tournament shoot out and other water events that are not specifically sanctioned events but the boats are run to the max and still some are blowing on the back of the windshield to get just one more mph out of it.
The smaller the boat engine is the harder it is going to get run because the human tendancy is always, just a little more. My first boat spent a great deal of it's life at WOT because I was trying to keep up with bigger stuff. The little GMC four banger was a trooper too. But racing of course and performance boating especially will see WOT on a regular basis and some a great deal. Just let a buddy try to pass you and it is throttles on the dash.
My career has surrounded internal combustion of most every type; gas, diesel, natural gas, propane, alternates, blended and elect installations. I am certified, certifiable too, in most all of these engine types and control systems and have been trained by all of the big three in their engine technologies. I love the technology and it just fuels me more in learning and the challenges that go with it. One thing has changed with me though. When I am cut, as one interviewer called it, I don't bleed oil......I bleed water. I started off in the auto side and now I am immersed in my hobby; boats. All this is not to brag it is an expectation of my performance in my work. I'm sure you are well versed in your career and could teach me things that are common to you.
The smaller the boat engine is the harder it is going to get run because the human tendancy is always, just a little more. My first boat spent a great deal of it's life at WOT because I was trying to keep up with bigger stuff. The little GMC four banger was a trooper too.
But racing of course and performance boating especially will see WOT on a regular basis and some a great deal. Just let a buddy try to pass you and it is throttles on the dash. My career has surrounded internal combustion of most every type; gas, diesel, natural gas, propane, alternates, blended and elect installations. I am certified, certifiable too
, in most all of these engine types and control systems and have been trained by all of the big three in their engine technologies. I love the technology and it just fuels me more in learning and the challenges that go with it. One thing has changed with me though. When I am cut, as one interviewer called it, I don't bleed oil......I bleed water. I started off in the auto side and now I am immersed in my hobby; boats. All this is not to brag it is an expectation of my performance in my work. I'm sure you are well versed in your career and could teach me things that are common to you.That is some funny stuff!!!! You are deffinatley right about one thing, I nalit every time my buddy's try to go around me, even acted like I was blowing on the windshield a few times when doing it, haha!
I enjoy reading your post, always knowledge, never bs !!
Rick
12-26-2012, 08:04 PM
#126
Registered
I try to help people to understand technical things to advance a job or progress on a project all the time so I hope I can help technically and accurately with my hobby too. I love boats, except blow boats because they always have the right of way
, so I try especially to help a boater buddy. I have preferences but technology is not subject to anyone's bias and some will present their bias as a technological fact and it misleads others. When I don't have skin in the game it is sometimes comical to watch but I still try to be clear with objective facts. Doing hydraulic work is pretty surprising to see the cost of hoses and equipment in that area too and performance boats usually have at a minimum two systems that are going to be hydraulic and usually more. So hydraulics is another area of expense on a performance boat where a common lake boat will only have one hydraulic function such a drive trim and if it has power steering then hydraulic assist for that. The more hydraulics a boat has the more rigging and labor is involved to build it.
Last edited by aquaforce; 12-26-2012 at 08:10 PM.
12-26-2012, 08:39 PM
#127
Gold Member
Gold MemberThread Starter
I try to help people to understand technical things to advance a job or progress on a project all the time so I hope I can help technically and accurately with my hobby too. I love boats, except blow boats because they always have the right of way , so I try especially to help a boater buddy. I have preferences but technology is not subject to anyone's bias and some will present their bias as a technological fact and it misleads others. When I don't have skin in the game it is sometimes comical to watch but I still try to be clear with objective facts.
Doing hydraulic work is pretty surprising to see the cost of hoses and equipment in that area too and performance boats usually have at a minimum two systems that are going to be hydraulic and usually more. So hydraulics is another area of expense on a performance boat where a common lake boat will only have one hydraulic function such a drive trim and if it has power steering then hydraulic assist for that. The more hydraulics a boat has the more rigging and labor is involved to build it.
, so I try especially to help a boater buddy. I have preferences but technology is not subject to anyone's bias and some will present their bias as a technological fact and it misleads others. When I don't have skin in the game it is sometimes comical to watch but I still try to be clear with objective facts. Doing hydraulic work is pretty surprising to see the cost of hoses and equipment in that area too and performance boats usually have at a minimum two systems that are going to be hydraulic and usually more. So hydraulics is another area of expense on a performance boat where a common lake boat will only have one hydraulic function such a drive trim and if it has power steering then hydraulic assist for that. The more hydraulics a boat has the more rigging and labor is involved to build it.
It's awesome you take the time to share what you know, I'm a hunting guide so I cant give much advice to the boating community!! Haha
Rick
12-26-2012, 09:15 PM
#130
Registered
Lets also be certain to mention a common lake boat is not built on an LS1, LS6 or any best of the best comparisons.
Most marine engines blowing XR drives off are doing just that, running WOT with the throttles pinned to the dash. Many marine engines spend their life at WOT. I really wonder how you could say marine engines don't see the same level.
Most marine engines blowing XR drives off are doing just that, running WOT with the throttles pinned to the dash. Many marine engines spend their life at WOT. I really wonder how you could say marine engines don't see the same level.
