Pick up a copy of National Dragster and take a look at the prices for parts, race cars and big horse power engines. Looks like bargain basement prices compared to Marine stuff.

I know that's its not a cut and dry comparison, but the difference in cost does seem to be rather large.

As a 10 year old, I recall my Dad dragging me (ok I really liked it) to the marine hardware store and complaining about how everything was double what he thought it should be, so it must be OK, because it has always been that way :)

IMO, "supply and demand" and "market size" is the reason why.

Lets say you buy that boat with "aftermarket power". A few months later it is Saturday morning poker run and you broke a 100 dollar part. Good chance that the merc part can be found and get you on your way, slim chance with anything else.

I think the merc pricing is crazy as well, but to keep me going on a weekend using parts found at a local dealer is priceless.

I think most manufacturers, especially Mercury,are following P.T. Barnum's principle

I sometimes think about getting a new Sunsation. Then I think about the things I don't like about my boat and I realize I could have them changed now and save myself $200k.

When I hear about the 05 prices for a Dominator, I would definitely buy a new one. But since then, hell no. Crazy money. I understand though, they would rather build one boat then tie up the shop with three or four for less money individually. They probably make the same selling one boat.

The simple answer:

Every vendor in the marine supply chain wants to maintain their fat margins. (It's why all those lovely manufactures went tits up)

The "custom" builders pass the hot potato to the "rich buyer" who then bears the lovely depreciation curve where it will literally make a rich man cry.

With volume drying up it further exacerbates their margin issues.

The future of boat manufacturing? First the entire industry needs to be cleansed then capital formation can take place with a sustainable strategy

Because they can be

I am new to reading this post and have not read all but my 2 cents worth and question is, if a 30 foot boat with minimal power costs 150,000 and you go up to 38 feet with same power, why is it 50,000 dollars more for 8 feet of fiberglass and some extra wire, a little carpet and maybe a longer couch. Go up to 42 feet and the cost rises another 100,000 dollars. I just do not get it. I understand power upgrades but price really goes up with length.

I hear ya, seems like everyone runs the same power, drives etc in these bosts, how ae thy one offs? Paint ?

Rick

Exactly, my bro n law races top ful dragster, and top alcohol sand dragster, nowhere near the same in cost!

Rick

My thoughts too... Where does the price tag come from?

Another question I guess, everyone keeps saying one off drives price way up, but if it has the same hull as the others, same power and drives as the others how are they considered one offs? Paint and interior design?

I know some have differant power and drives, but I know these guys all run the latest and greatest...

Rick

My belief is that some of the smaller boats are priced a little closer to the cost...but the bigger boats....I think the manufacturers just test what the market could bare. There are big wigs that have no problem dropping some serious coin on the latest and greatest boats and have no problem being the one to take the hit on the depreciation.

The makers of the motors, drives and steering are pricing their products high because they can do it and get away with it period. I must say that they were very smart by standing fast and creating a monopoly that no one has been able to meaningfully penetrate.

[QUOTE=turbo rr;3835943]My belief is that some of the smaller boats are priced a little closer to the cost...but the bigger boats....I think the manufacturers just test what the market could bare. There are big wigs that have no problem dropping some serious coin on the latest and greatest boats and have no problem being the one to take the hit on the depreciation.

The makers of the motors, drives and steering are pricing their products high because they can do it and get away with it period. I must say that they were very smart by standing fast and creating a monopoly that no one has been able to meaningfully penetrate.[/

Excellent point! Sure makes It tough on the guys with shallow pockets to enter into the big power boating world!

Seems like there would be more money to be made by selling more for less..

60-70 units per year at lets say 75k would be 5.5 million

5 per year sold at 500k is only 2.5 mill

I know drives and motors are expensive, however, I also know the price we pay is no where near there cost to build!!!

Again, my opinions !

Rick

[QUOTE=Rwbrew3;3835969]+1

[QUOTE=Rwbrew3;3835969]70 units per year at 75k, total 5.5 mil REVENUE. Lets say the profit is $15k each. That leaves you 1 million in gross profit, from which you must pay the employees to build those 70 boats, and all overhead. Tight ship

Now, do a small operation and build those 5 boats you mentioned at $500k, and make $100k each giving you a total gross profit of $500k. Sell 10 and you are at the same profit as the guy building the 70 boats at $75k! Also a tight ship, but a lot less stress, warranty risk, and variables.

A smart investor would choose the 5 boat manufacture. Keep in mind also the manufacture that builds the $75k boats relies on the banks to finance their end users, which is not an easy task on a performance boat today. The mfg that makes $500k boats has CASH customers

Do you think Ferrari is upset about the amount of mustangs that Ford sells? No, they just keep building high profit, low volume cars.

Walk into a West Marine store and explain why everything is so overpriced ?

Had kind of an epiphany last night lol. Here i am on the Bravo breakage thread b!tching about how Merc treats us as the customer with careful manipulative and articulated product development/engineering/marketing and then in this thread about why boats cost so much my position was "hey i own the mold . . . why would i build two boats for fifty grand when i can just build one and sell it for a hundred" lol . . . boy if i wasnt me i would say i was kind of a dik hed lol. well theres one thing for sure to be in this hobby ya either gotta have deep pockets or ya gotta be real creative. I think thats why i enjoy the tech section so much on this board, to see some of the boats that some of the guys on here build with moderate budgets is very impressive. Heck thats probably what got me into the biz in the first place

I actually posted this in the other thread but then moved it here as i thought for the thread starter it would be best to help keep that topic on track, its a very good thread. Posted a couple biches over there that were prolly unnecessary to the gathering of info, sorry bout that Smitty :D

[QUOTE=4bus;3836048]
I get what you are saying, however, if I was an investor, I'm going after sales and profit. Something like this there would be lots of investors, 5 units @ 500k probably wouldnt be worth them throwing in the pot.

Now 75k, And I'm only guessing here, but that's first year would be crazy, I know my lil 25 outlaw would be gone, and the boat that I could never afford would be in my driveway!

I'm sure there would be thousansands of sales!!

Rick

[QUOTE=Rwbrew3;3836115]If you want to replace your 25 ft boat with a new model at $75k I think checkmate is your answer.

http://checkmatepowerboats.net/Check...incor-260.html

[QUOTE=4bus;3836144]No, I'm saying the brand new boats that's sales for $500k was to drop to 75k I wold be all over it, long with about a million guys...

We can dream!!

Still don't see where all that money goes !!

Rick

[QUOTE=Rwbrew3;3836164]
Rick, you have to get on one, not just pictures. Like anything else, seeing in person brings into prospective.

They bring a new meaning to bling, and attention to detail. So many one off polished parts. So much labor making things look clean.

Small market, big overhead.

[QUOTE=4bus;3836172]I've been on some pretty nice boats, DCB last year, amazing boat! But when sitting in it, I just couldn't see where all that money went. Then I've been in a 500k home, that was 5k square ft plus, 3 car garage, big lot, I could see where that money went. I'm just saying, it's still just seats, motor, drives, yeah the beautiful colors on the paint and interior set It a part from some others but at the end of the day it's still just 43ft of fiberglass, with a bling factor!!

Again, not putting these boats down, just my opinion!!


Rick

Again, these oats are amazing

Just another thought....

I bet if everyone who buys these boats stopped paying those ridiculous prices the cost would come down dramatically.i would have to believe that these manufactures and dealers know that they have made these things almost un-achievable to purchase for the man who doesn't want to put all of his life's belongings. I know there are the ridiculously rich people that don't care what they spend on a boat, they just drop the coin.

I've seen some serious horror stories on here with guys who drop money on these things and never got to get it wet or park it in there driveway. They put up everything they had to get it and now have nothing but collection letters and threats of law suites from the lending institution.

My point is this, these boats are an addiction to some, and there is nothing they wouldnt do to have one regardless of price tag or financial consequences.




Opinion !

Rick

I can understand that statement to an extent. Waterpumps, impellors etc... But when you can build a 600hp 502 using the best parts for a fraction of what they sell the 565 for wtf does it matter? Longevity? Yeah right! The Merc power doesn't last any longer or shorter than if it was done by you in your garage.

I would bet that 95% of Merc dealers have nothing in stock for any Merc blue engine.....

or black ones in many cases unless it's an outboard.

300 plus stores isn't small.
ed

Still a small market. Drove by the one local today while out shopping. The rest of the stores were packed and I would guess there was a dozen customers in West Marine. 300 stores = big overhead. I am a supporter of Boat US and buy from West Marine but I would be curious to see the average daily sales...

Mine, Brewerton Boat Yard, has everything you can think of in stock, he is like the merc warehouse. He will charge you list plus 10%, but he has it on a Sunday morning in the summer :D

So you want the guys, that shell out .5-2 million dollars to have the next best thing that no one else has to stop buying to force the market down, because you believe the mfg are getting too rich on boat sales? :lolhit:

[QUOTE=Rwbrew3;3836216]Rick,

I understand you want a new 39 ft outerlimits with twin 700scis and number 6 drives for $75k, don't we all? If you think it is possible to build I say do it! Most successful businesses start with a great idea.....get to work!

That 500k home that you speak of, how many off the shelf parts from the millions of other home built around the world does it use? VOLUME! How many times has it been said in this thread?

If you can build and sell as many boats as we do houses, maybe then the volume would force prices down. This would also invite a new comer to really compete with merc. Until then, they will keep building ultra expensive HP boats for the
.0005 percent of the population that wants them :D

No, I said I wonder if it would have an impact.. All is hypothetical, I'm not thinking I could have any sort of impact on the boating world. I just brought this up to see if these boats where way over priced, and if they could be bought for lots less if the the big players involved didnt try to make a killin on each sale.

I don't see anyone having what the others don't... Just differant paint and name on the boat.

But yes, these guys are making way to much money ... Haha!

It's just thoughts, I'm no1!!

Rick

[QUOTE=4bus;3836312]That's funny!! Not a chance could I build one. My reference to the house is that you can see where all of your money's went, land and dwelling! You can raise a family in it, you build equity etc.

Please don't take me wrong, I'm just a curios guy, with thoughts !

Rick

[QUOTE=Rwbrew3;3836317]I get your point, they are expensive. But it also makes them semi exclusive, which is nice.

Think of the invasion of the jet skis in the 90's. I don't want to see that in the performance boat world :D

Funny thing is, if anyone could make them less expensive it would be the Asians right? A new Yamaha 24 ft boat will set you back about $55k.....there has to be more that we see :D

I guess another way to look at it...

The average low end hp boat cost is 50k... Now you can buy a Lexus And or a BMW for that, these cars have way more technology, they have huge production, tons of advertisement.. All of this wich lands in the billions, but they still can move there product at an affordable price and still cover all there cost ad make a huge profit.I know they sale thousands of these automobiles per year vs a few 500k boats. That's is why I brought this thread up, why couldn't it be the same in the boat world.

Rick

[QUOTE=4bus;3836320]
Man, that's got me cracking up!,however, if you do some research, those boats you mention are already being made !


Rick

Hmmm... Knowing what I know it is hard to relpy. IMO a 28' V hull with a 400 hp efi engine and a Merc driveline should be around 60-75k on trailer delivered. Not only is Merc wanting astonomical amounts for their driveline but the EPA and the raw material suppliers offer a load of bullchit to justify the price.

Yes sir!! Thats why i wonder what the true cost would be before these guys started in with there off the wall numbers.. I was starting at a 25fter ( I have one ) haha. So I had to be included.. I think the lower end ones could be bought in that range, talking basic model boats here. Then the cars mentioned are up there in quality,performance and technology and can be had for the same or even less.

Opinions, no facts here!

Rick

So I looked at lots of boats last nights, mostly DCB, to see how these are one offs, or something no one else hase... Well that didn't happen! they are almost identical except for the paint, interior, and sometimes power.. Hull,layout,gauges , etc all the same.

Is almost like the chopper world, all the same, just pick your color package and motor...

I'm not bashing anyone, those boats are beautiful, but it's my opinion they are way way over priced.

Also, looked at some outerlimits, and a few others, same thing!!


Rick