The Future of Powerboat Values
 

What is your opinion of the future of powerboat values, this year, in a few years and five years and beyond?

You could argue that as less new powerboats are made the used boats will be refurbished and continue to hold value. Also there are less powerboats to supply the demand.

-OR-

You could argue that as less new powerboats are made and the used market gets older the value of the boats, tighter loan requirements, uncertain fuel prices, tighter noise restrictions all will pull down the value of used boats.

I sold my powerboat last spring and bought a pontoon last fall. I'm not going to lie that I miss it and watch the powerboat market almost daily. It seems to me that the boats that are selling are "good deals". However, some boats such as apaches (I love them) don't seem to make any adjustments on asking price but also sit on the market forever.

Look forward to any comments.

I feel the used market prices are increasing, but I think overall wakeboard boats are taking over the world!!!! Also enventually the used boats are going to be to old and/or to expensive that the few people left running performance boats will opt to buy new ones.

Remain same or go down. All I know is that I've spent too much already and it's not even half done!

It's just getting too expensive to have fun.

Good used ones are getting hard to come by...

I think it's simple supply and demand. I expect nice boats to fetch a respectable price. Not all that many nice boats for sale. Very few new boats being produced. With the low volume on new boats, they will have to be very costly for the manufacturers to make a profit.

The price of new boats has gotten so frikken expensive that late model (probably 2005+) will probably stand to increase (a little).

I have seen a trend that the super deals are long gone.

I think you will be seeing more boats parted out. The pieces are worth more than the whole boats in most cases.

I'm on the long range planning committee at my Yacht Club, and was maknig the point the other day that the demographics of boating are changing.

People of my generation (born in the 80's 90's, and beyond) do not have the resources or knowledge to deal with a boat like ours. It's a generation of people who can't drive stick, can't change their own oil, can't put their I-pad down and go outside, couldn't build a crooked birdhouse with a set of plans. It's a demograph who don't own any tools and certainly can't doing anything with their hands that require more than calling a repairman or changing the channel.

As a result of that inherent change in people the demand for boats like ours will fall because for MOST people you either know how to work on these things, or you have so much money you can afford to pay people to. The later generations are neither. Couple that with the fact that for $3k a potential boater can go on Craigslist and buy a used Jetski that goes 70 MPH, can keep it in their garage, tow it with their Accord, and burn 5 gallons a weekend and you've got a recipe for lost interest in bigger boats (whether go-fast or not).

On top of all that it seems to me that about 50% of America base every life decision on the price of gas so the thought of owning a big truck and a big boat are unconscionable on account that gas prices might go up $0.15.

I think the go-fast market is shrinking and from there the forces of supply and demand will take root. Will we have some anomolies created by the crushing economic times we saw the last few years? Probably. Overall though - medium and long term I think basic demand will lessen prices (in real terms).

I agree plus the younger generation is smarter.

What is the deal with the wake board boats? I see them everywhere but hardly ever see anyone "wakeboarding" behind them. Seems like the younger crowd buys them so they can mount speakers on the tower and annoy everyone else.

+1

More than half the boats on my lake are wakeboard boats and only 10 actually use the boat the way they should.... the rest just come to the sandbar and play there meaningless music so loud that all you hear is loud noises.

Great synopsis......+1

But also add:
1. Environmental concerns (manatee/no wake) make go fast boats less appealing. Engines are getting more complex (catalytic converters have been implemented) and therefore taken another step away from the shade tree mechanic.
2. Kids think a Prius is cooler than a Camaro/Mustang! Maybe a hybrid go fast will get their attention
3. Technology excites this generation (video games, IPhones) and go fast boats are not at the forefront of this by any means. After all boats in video games never break down!

I was told at a car show once that you will always like the stuff you liked in high school. My dad's generation was the 57 Chevy and 64 Mustang type stuff (I appreciate those cars but would never buy one!). T-Buckets are that way for my dad's generation. Go fast boats popularity is going to fade as the people that appreciate them age..... This is happening with golf as well (baby boomers loved that game, gen x/y not so much).

Builders need to adapt or die.....NorTech did it successfully with their CC line.

This explains my fondness to this day for halter tops and terry cloth short shorts. :lolhit: Easy access to everything. :bunnydance:

Yeah but you can't look good wearing that stuff! :cartman:

Pretty much agree with most of the assessments....

The tide is going out in the go-fast community due to dynamic demographic changes.

The cruiser & hi end fishing market face significant head winds in the next 5 years as baby boomers become net sellers as their life winds down....

Boating like golf and a number of other hobbies will have to significantly evolve to cater to a generation that literally has no money in the bank.

It's a major structural issue in the upper end of the economy the next 5-10 years.....

I actually take offense to this. Maybe it cause I am an 80's baby and so are all my friends. Remember I am only speaking for 80's kids (90's kids I will leave out to dry).


Last I checked though of the 18 cars I have owned all but my current Escalade were stick. Heck i even make my GF have a stick in her Audi. I worked in a garage for 7.5 yrs from service to front and back counter. Most everyone that I worked with was also my age and born in the 80's. We rebuilt many cars over that time including our own, and my personal 500+ rwhp 2001 blown Mustang.

I have never owned an ipad or even a video game for that matter.

Now I can only speak for my circle of friends and coewokers from the 80's but as far as tech, know how, will, and hardwork goes you couldn't be further from the truth.

I will say some things that we are on a disadvantage is the job market, advancment in jobs, the amount of "qualified" people, student loans, etc will always be a burden for most of us. Sadley my generation, the 90's babies, and so on are going to be dealt an up hill battle that has no light in sight at the moment. That doesn't mean many won't over come all that but it certainly isn't the same streets your age group had to walk to get were they are today.

Lastly I am a used boat "in the market" guy born in the 80's. You could not pay me any amout of money to take a jetski over a powerboat. Give me a proven hull that is a wave crusher, big block power, and a noisey and mean sound. That's what it is all about.

One more consideration, if rare wave crushing boats were collectible and rising in value then there wouldn't be any Apaches available! You can buy a 47 like Broken Arrow or Spirit of Apache for less than a new Top Gun! You could buy both 47s for less than Phil is asking for the 50 SS Voodoo....

Values will go no where as demand dries up and eventually drop when someone wants to sell something.

This has already hit builders like Viking.... They had 40 brand new 2011s in inventory last year and still raised prices on new 2012s! Many longtime sport fish owners have sold and not replaced or replaced with day fishing boats like CC's. No need for a battlewagon that guzzles $1200 an hour in fuel to go fishing, these guys are older now and don't want to fish all day anymore anyway. CC's offer a good ride, much better fuel economy and speed to get away from inclement weather if it approaches. Don't need anywhere near the maintenance (labor and expense) of the sport fish either.

IMO present day values for used boats are very high. I remember shopping for a boat 6 years ago and the same boats I was looking at (mid 90's 24-27 foot boats) are selling for just as much today as they were in 2006! I dont see the "deals" out there whatsoever (especially in Seattle) where prices are sky high for anything that is considered a performance boat. When I looked a year ago you couldnt find a boat with a big block and over 22 feet for less than $10k (regardless of how old the boat was).

I won't take offense, but I have to take issue with this. Just like Nate5.0 was saying, there are PLENTY of us young guys (80's Babies) that are real handy with a wrench and work very hard. Not too mention we appreciate the big blocks and drive trucks, fuel prices be damned :angry-smiley-038:

I agree that a merc 900sci 1075, 1350, etc is out of my league in terms of mechanical expertise. But a 350 or 454? I can tear them apart and put them together all day long. Still know my way around carbs as well, though efi set ups are nice. Check out a thread I started quite some time back

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ng-owners.html

And I know this thread was about the future of pricing, so here's a young guys prediction... I think the used market will be up a bit over where it was 3-5yrs ago, but will turn down as baby boomer boats come up for sale and it "floods" in the next decade so to speak. A good example around me:
2011 saw a Formula 311 with 454/trs go for 18K in decent shape. Now I'm seeing them listed for 25-42k... Someone will jump up and prove me wrong (I'm sure) but it seems like straight hull topgun pricing has risen a little in the last 18-24mon? So that's my take.

Lastly on the wakeboard boats... How many of us joke about not using our cabin? How well do 8 people fit in a topgun cockpit? How much truck do you need to tow one? Well check this out... A 1988 Supra Saltare is 23ft long, holds 12 people, single bbc, can be towed by a half ton, and still do 50+. Not too mention the stereo's pound and you can get one in really good shape for 10-12K. A more than 10yr old boat is tough to get a loan on, that example I just gave, makes great use out of $10,000 that guys my age work very hard for. Look at the job market for 4yr grads. Truth be told, it SUCKS. So that $10-15k required to get on a 15-20yr old 24ft outlaw is "precious" so to speak. Holy chit I just wrote a book. My bad :lolhit:

I kind of tend to agree with seaford, most of us 80's babies have no clue about mechanics, look at all of our friends. Most of mine think I am insane for have owning and shopping for a performance boat. The first thing they say is how much fuel does that thing use, then they ask what kind of mileage my truck gets... It's sad to say but that's why I feel there has been such a surge in wakeboard boats. They can put $50 in the tank, split it up between 4 buddies and go cruise around all day. Plus it makes them look like they do a extreme sport or something!! Those of us in our late 20's and early 30's are the future of powerboating and in reality I don't feel that there is that many of us. So I feel that older boats will decline in price while newer say 04+ will increase in price. Until us 30 something's start dropping the $$$ for new mid-level boats.

I will say that a friend of mine has a wb boat and when I blow by him cutting across the lake his 10 passengers look miserable since they are getting the crap beat out of them!!! I'm always sure to let him know that all his skegs are still there! :poopoo:

Nate, Machloosey,

Don't take offense. There are some of us out there that like to turn a wrench, but the MAJORITY do not.

No true offense taken at all more of a joking offense.


Its all fun, games, boats, and boobs.

Question to the younger guys, Nate and Machloosey:

Did your parents own a boat?

People who grew up in boat-owning families often end up owning boats. Because they've been exposed to what's involved, they tend to be less intimidated by the notion of having a boat of their own. It's almost as if the legacy of boat ownership and lifestyle is passed down.

So I'm curious as to what you guys had, in terms of early exposure, to boats.

We had an old 27' cruiser (80' s Searay if I recall).

But my mom ALWAYS had a passion for power boats. Since a small kid we go watch hydroplanes back in the day, the race in St Pete near the pier for offshore, as well as Sarasota, and once it moved to clearwater that was a yearly joy for us.

It always stuck with me. My whole family was into fast cars as well and have been going to NHRA events since I was 5 with my uncle (he owns a garage and a wellcraft Nova).

I lost my mom in 2011 and we had talks before. It was always our dream to do a powerboat run together and though she wont be here when I get my first one. It will be named and drove in her memory all the time.

I grew up on them. Parents had a 302 formula, 31 Excalibur(2nd to last one out of the original factory), and a 28 apache brave. We also had ski and fishing boats along with jet skis for inbetween big boats. I guess I never shook the bug. I still wish I could be boating on their dime!!

I grew up with a couple old salt water staples - a 13' Whaler and a 1974 (and a 1976) Wellcraft V20.

My brother still uses the 1974 every weekend. The 1976 ended up at the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay after a rogue wave came over the backside. (After we sold it to a woman up the street)

Im 17 and have been around boats my whole life my grandparents are on there 2nd fourwinns since the mid 90's (there old) and my family has a sonic our 1st performance we cahnge all of the fluids and do basic manitance ourselves i definitely believe my family sparked my intrest in boats :boat:

Well growing up on a lake and having a family cottage on Torch Lake... boating was and always will be a way of life...

Dad... 22ft ranger w/ 300hp 80+mph -- 38ft Tiara -- 19ft hydrostream 90+ mph (Sweet boat)
Uncle... 27ft fountain -- 38ft formula SR1
2nd Uncle... 25ft baja

So yeah... there have been a few boats growing up.

Side note... the hydrostream we would take upnorth and there was one time, i think i was 7-10 years old at the time and i forgot the drain plug when we dropped it in the water... tied her up at the dock and we come back... well lets just say im glad we tied it up real tight to the dock... oops... got a real spankin that day...

Haha I'm the odd man out here Matt. No boats in our family except a canoe. I did however grow up right near the water, and like Nate5.0 mentioned, my Dad is a big car guy.

SeaFordguy, no offense taken. More of a joking "hold on now!" :lolhit:

I was born in 1984. Most people my age see boating as the biggest waste of money ever. Most of my friends think I am insane for owning one. I do all my own work on motors and my boat. Most of my friends are alot like me, but we are a dying breed. Just as a guesstimate, I have 300 friends age 25-40 on facebook that I know, of that 300 I would bet half have a household income of at least 100k. Of that half that could afford a boat (not saying you cant making less than 100k, just makes it easier), including myself, only 4 own boats of any kind. It also seem like we are the YOLO generation and lack the ability to save any money.

Seems like we have the same taste in friends... my friends think my boat is bad ass... looks great, sounds amazing... but they also think its the biggest waste of money. But none of them grew up boating or never did much near water. I can also say that most of my friends that range 26-35 are the YOLO Gen and they could careless... even though some of them making over 100k a year. Now I dont make that kind of $$$, but here I am still owning a kickass boat and still putting money in the bank.

Matt,

Interesting reading/responses...I'm in my mid 40's, been a boat owner since I was 21. No previous boating in my family and like the 80's guys' comments some of my peers had no interest in boating. One of my friend's parents had a boat back when we were younger but my buddy had little interest in using it or getting his own.
I do consider myself a 'gearhead' and love speed; had my first snowmobile at 15 and a Mustang at 18. Buying a boat and 'dumping my money into the water' was (is) a natural for me. I have a passion for this stuff and I'm sure there's many out there like me who will hopefully keep the go-fast sport alive. This forum and others is a bit of an indicator that there is still interest.
I do believe that right now the economy is the issue for the people with the passion no matter what generation.
Just throwing in my 2 cents.

Oops! hijacked.

As for boat values...supply and demand, with the economy messing things up right now. I know I'll want to move up again but new will probably be out of the question. Good used in a few years without being too old will probably be scarce.

One of the problems is any one who buys a new boat wants extras for example livorsi guages a company will charge you $$$$$more for livorsi guages with its the same installation process as gafig then you never get the $$$$$ back when you go to resell. Just my thinking
We bought our boat 20 years old and while we got a good deal i feel the time is coming when all the good deals will be gone and you'll be left deciding between an old nightmare or dropping a couple 100g on a new boat hopefully when that time comes there's enough people with enough money to keep the industry going

I think this exact question is the tipping point here. I just turned 41, so not as young as the demo the question is really pointed at, but I grew up on boats. Mostly what my Dad could afford, so nothing super fancy. It ran the gamut from an od outboard trihull, to a 24 ft glastron jetboat with a 460. It even had the required metal flake orange paintjob.
I'm not sure where my interest in all things internal cumbustion came from, outside of just being a guy. My family, outside of the boats, really weren't gearheads, yet my brother and I most definitely are.
As far as the younger generation goes, I can only speak to what I see. I have 2 step-daughters, 19, and 22, so their dating pool is smack dab in the middle of that gen. I can tell you that either A) their taste in men was NOT influenced by my presence, or B) there really isn't an interest in doing things yourself. Most don't give a crap what they drive, as long as friends think it's cool. And the guys they brought around in high school, if they DID have a cool (to me) car, mommy and daddy bought and maintained it.
I know there are people out there in that age bracket that do want a performance boat, but like Machloosy said, you can buy a boat more tailored to taking a bunch of friends out for a lot cheaper than you can a performance boat that can do the same. I was in the same situation at around the same age. I've had a boat since my early 30s, but I started out small, and just over the last 6-7 years have been able to afford to break into a performance boat market. And even then started relatively small. We'll see how it all pans out, but I tend to agree with the opinion that the market will continue to get smaller as gas prices go up, and paychecks across the board stay relatively stagnant. If we have another run on the econimic side like the early 90s, all bets are off. It will happen again, all this stuff is cyclic anyway. If freakin bell bottoms came back, I bet performance boating will come back into style too, eventually.

Value
 

Ive seen values staying about the same. Im in the market for a decent lake boat, and the sellers dont realize the market value just isnt there, so they let it sit over priced. Ive seen POS boats on Craigslist relisted for a year with no price reduction.

The Marinas that used to be able to make some coin repairing boats are the slowest to adapt.
Theres less people with boats, less people needing repairs, and even fewer who can afford the repairs. Yet shop rate is still $80-$100/hr. And dont forget to mark up the parts.

The Market is telling us all that the current pricing model cant be supported - The industry isnt listining, and they are starving and will likely die.

+ 1

Im in 80's baby... my father owned a 240sc mastercraft ski boat. I live on long island and saw the around LI race pass my house one day and I was hooked ever since. I've actually gotten him into performance boating.