This = + Any moron can get caught up in AM talk radio and if dumb enough can be swept up in the BS that constitues this waist land. In my honest opinion anyone that follows ANY radio talk show host is an idiot, or rather mediot. Trust me, Rush is the biggest sell out in the modern day Mediotage. I listened to this wind bag when he had one station under his belt and was begging for the republicans to court him in 1989. Bush senior let him in and the morons that have followed ever since could just as well have been liberals. He didnt care at the time, just wanted the following / money.

ANYONE that is tied to one of the prostitude political parties is a moron in my book. For the guys that jump in here and try and rewrite HISTORY, we ( I) am not a moron. WE LIVED IT, WTF are you trying to do? DO YOU REALLY THINK EVERY IS AS DUMB AS YOU ARE?

Take your BS back to the dumbasses that might have a chance of being incoherent during the mid to late 2000's. Blame Democrats, Republicans etc. Neither one gives a **** about you or I. Neither one gives a **** about my Sons or your sons either.

Seems that the moron republican sheeple have taken to the internet lately. To prove my point, how many of you sheeple bought in to GB R being a conservative?

The problem is no longer with financing. For the past two years I can get anyone bought that had at least a 600 credit score and a job. Remember this is relevant to what they can afford however the financing has opened up. I have a new bank that plans on doing a credit score of 550. I believe the banks have opened up and are trying to help now. I have had only one person I could not get financed so far this year.

You're right, financing is not the issue. What's different, is that the requirements are different, probably about the same as they were, say, 15 years ago. Money down, good credit, reasonable debt to income ratio. Boats are also competing with housing nowadays, not to mention folks have kids and maybe college to pay for. Not much different than when some of us older guys were growing up.

50 years of reckless spending? I don't think so.

I hate to turn this into a political thread, but the middle class is being decimated by socialism. It doesn't work. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Michael

Ask Sea Doo how their boats are selling?

Do you have year to year sales figures to back up this rosy picture? I find it hard to believe anything is "on fire", when boat builders are going belly up. The Los Angeles Boat Show was a ghost town this year.

Michael

I can tell you this. Pontoons are on fire. The two brands I sell are 6-8 weeks out. If you didn't block off production spots earlier you won't see boats for two months. Also glass below 30k is on fire. Fishing boats and outboard bow riders I can't keep in stock.

Not sure where you got the 50 years of reckless spending from ? I was talking about the reckless spending that occurred prior to the housing/banking collapse i.e. borrowing against mortgages and 401's to buy material toys.

It could well turn out that way I agree. But the MIddle Class started the slow downturn early last decade, and din't realize they were falling off a cliff until the housing and financial markets went bust. Those that went on housing and home equity refi binges lost out big, those that went unemployed got the double whammy. The impact was sudden. Real wages had been dropping for some time, and spending was butressed by credit and leverage.

Socialism had nothing to do with last decade's failures, and there were many of them.

The last few years have been stagnant for a variety of reasons. Corporate profits are huge, cash hoards are huge, middle class wages have declined further still. No question that the policies the last few years haven't helped anyone but big business mostly. Housing is rebounding due to the massive Fed buying, and the low prices. Prices this year have definitely risen, and I think the middle class is wise to concentrate on that rather than expensive boats.

I have no idea what income levels we're talking about, probably a wide range of between $75,000 and perhaps as high as $300,000 or so. Hard to say. But housing is recovering inch by inch, people are buying new cars to replace old ones, and just about everything else has gone up in price. Wages? Not so much. Look to the auto industry wage changes to get an example of people that no longer consider $100K boats a necessity.

Needless to say, the policies and reckless behavior of the last almost 15 years have set back the middle class and kept them there. This might explain why extremely expensive boats sell well now, and the bottom ranges do not. I think it will continue for some time.

I think many of us boomers are heading into their retirement boats Cheap to maintain, not that expensive. You might even be seeing some replacement boat buying going on from Hurricane Sandy? I even know some that were reckless in boats and housing, and are now back in both games, albeit at a much lower price point.

Also have to add another little tidbit, which I think is certainly germane to this thread. Outsourcing. As another company was gobbled up by a large conglomerate/defense contractor, a new environment has been revealed. This is an environment whereby people are flown overseas, to train their new replacements. India's always a good guess. They've been doing this in earnest for more than a decade, so it's second nature to the company.

Customer support, coders, IT staff and support, logistics, even process development and tech writing. Almost all of these jobs were done by mostly middle class people, some in the higher income ends, almost all non-union. Every single company does this, or will. I have to be a little upset when companies that rely directly on government contracts do it. In fact, they do it in a larger percentage. It's more than a little disconcerting when companies that receive a large share of their revenues from the US government, outsource those jobs to countries like India, and still make more money year after year.

Those former employees will not be buying a Checkmate either.